Subwoofer Dilemma

[splxtreme 8]

After I get moved into my new house, and have some cash again. I'd like to get a sub back in my truck. I've been waiting for the Audiomobile's to pop up, but I'm not sure when they will be available and may actually cost more than I want to spend, since the AE X's will probably never be around again, I'm trying not to spend more than 300 on a 12/15, but I will if the right sub comes along. I'm hoping you guys can help point me in the direction of a sub. I have some specs in mind that seem to be what I'm looking for or close too. But, I don't have enough information on the subs I've been looking at.

What I'm looking for is a sub that is efficient, accurate, has great sq, and has the ability to get loud and low when needed. It doesn't matter to me if the enclosure is sealed or ported. I have the room.

I don't have an amp yet, so I can get the power geared towards what is needed.

The specs that seem to fit what I'm looking for (but could be wrong) is a qts of around .5, xmax => 25mm, Le =< 1mh, high sensitivity if possible, and a recommended enclosure that is on the smaller side, so nothing over 3 cubes.

My main goal is to have an accurate sub that is transparent as possible with my front stage. There are so many subs out there, I just need help narrowing down to a good selection, and maybe of some that I have not heard of yet.

Thanks for any help. Hopefully I didn't miss any pertinent info.

[Impious 1,476]

For reference, some of your target parameters are contradictory.

High sensitivity and small enclosures simply isn't an option unless you're will to sacrifice low end extension.

Also you aren't going to find a subwoofer possessing both qualities of high sensitivity and high Qts (.5 is on the higher side) due to the physics involved.

Unless you have a specific enclosure you intend to use, don't worry about the Qts. It's partially needed determines what type of enclosure/alignment to use, but don't base your decision off of Qts alone. Instead look at the alignment options and the response of the driver in those alignments to make your decision.

Really for subwoofer duties don't worry about driver sensitivity and rather focus on an a subwoofer that is able to fit into an efficient alignment that meets your volume requirements if efficiency is your one of your goals.

I wouldn't worry too much about Le as generally speaking your lowpass crossover is going to dominate in the higher frequencies rather than Le.....unless Le-induced corner frequency is extremely low or you plan to run the driver up extremely high in frequency.

Xmax is one of your target parameters I would agree with.

[splxtreme 8]

That's why I asked you guys

As for Le, I heard that it is important as it plays an important factor in transient response. I saw that the Le of the MASS 2012 i used to own was around .5 and the ED Av.2 was upwards of 4 I believe, so the MASS seemed to be able to go higher in the frequency response vs. dropping off immediately after 63hz (ED AV.2). I personally thought the MASS was extremely accurate, and no matter the enclosure for the AV.2, sealed or ported. I couldn't get it to sound right. I did like the low end though, that is were it really shined.

I guess overall, if you guys could point me in the right direction or have a subwoofer that seems to meet my needs, I can always just purchase it and return it if I don't like it. I just don't have the time or patience to buy a bunch and find the right one.

Something that doesn't require a lot of power for it's full potential, doesn't require a huge box if possible, and has great SQ.

Thanks again for the help.

[dbsupra 69]

You might look into the SSA Icon, Sundown Z and Fi Q.

All get loud and I've been impressed with the sound quality of them. The Z you wouldn't want in a sealed enclosure though. Other 2 subs work in sealed.

[ssh 924]

An SSA Icon or Xcon would be nice.

[Impious 1,476]

As for Le, I heard that it is important as it plays an important factor in transient response. I saw that the Le of the MASS 2012 i used to own was around .5 and the ED Av.2 was upwards of 4 I believe, so the MASS seemed to be able to go higher in the frequency response vs. dropping off immediately after 63hz (ED AV.2). I personally thought the MASS was extremely accurate, and no matter the enclosure for the AV.2, sealed or ported. I couldn't get it to sound right. I did like the low end though, that is were it really shined.

Le only affects transient response (and not the entire transient behavior, only the impulse response) in so far as it affects the high frequency response of the driver. For the 13AV.2, the Le was around 4.7mH with an Re of 4.9ohm. This puts the corner frequency (-3db) at 166hz. So the Le was creating a lowpass filter with a crossover point of 166hz.

Basic crossover theory stipulates that you would want this Le corner frequency atleast an octave above your intended operating bandwidth (i.e. the active LPF). Where did you lowpass the sub? It was probably set somewhere around 60-80hz, which is a full octave below the Le corner frequency.

So the active lowpass crossover was the limiting factor in the impulse response of the subwoofer, not the Le. If you wanted to use the driver up to 200hz or better then yes, the Le have been the limiting factor. But when lowpassed and acting as a true subwoofer, the lowpass crossover is what was limiting the impulse portion of the transient response.

I'm not telling you that you should have liked the 13AV.2 more than you did. I'm just telling you it was not because of the Le.

Realize I'm explaining all of this to you so that you spend your time choosing a subwoofer based on the more important factors rather than eliminating potential drivers for the the wrong reasons, or ending up with a driver that doesn't fit your goals because you looked at the wrong pieces of data when shopping.

[splxtreme 8]

As for Le, I heard that it is important as it plays an important factor in transient response. I saw that the Le of the MASS 2012 i used to own was around .5 and the ED Av.2 was upwards of 4 I believe, so the MASS seemed to be able to go higher in the frequency response vs. dropping off immediately after 63hz (ED AV.2). I personally thought the MASS was extremely accurate, and no matter the enclosure for the AV.2, sealed or ported. I couldn't get it to sound right. I did like the low end though, that is were it really shined.

Le only affects transient response (and not the entire transient behavior, only the impulse response) in so far as it affects the high frequency response of the driver. For the 13AV.2, the Le was around 4.7mH with an Re of 4.9ohm. This puts the corner frequency (-3db) at 166hz. So the Le was creating a lowpass filter with a crossover point of 166hz.

Basic crossover theory stipulates that you would want this Le corner frequency atleast an octave above your intended operating bandwidth (i.e. the active LPF). Where did you lowpass the sub? It was probably set somewhere around 60-80hz, which is a full octave below the Le corner frequency.

So the active lowpass crossover was the limiting factor in the impulse response of the subwoofer, not the Le. If you wanted to use the driver up to 200hz or better then yes, the Le have been the limiting factor. But when lowpassed and acting as a true subwoofer, the lowpass crossover is what was limiting the impulse portion of the transient response.

I'm not telling you that you should have liked the 13AV.2 more than you did. I'm just telling you it was not because of the Le.

Realize I'm explaining all of this to you so that you spend your time choosing a subwoofer based on the more important factors rather than eliminating potential drivers for the the wrong reasons, or ending up with a driver that doesn't fit your goals because you looked at the wrong pieces of data when shopping.

No matter where I had the crossover or position of box, the sub tapered around 63hz. Used a tone generator to confirm the frequency. My buddy still has a MASS and testing it in the vehicle with the same amp and crossover setting, the MASS easily went beyond 80hz. That is the only reason I was asking about Le. Not saying your wrong though.