Dome Midrange in Kick of S-10

[Flipx99 0]

I currently have Rainbow Cal27 tweeters and Rainbow Profi Kick midbass. I am looking for a midrange to make a "hybrid" 3way frontstage (that words seems rather redundant )

I have a profi crossover and the intent was to place the tweeter and small dome midrange quite close to each other in the kickpanel, while the midbass is in the door. The midbass will be in the door.

The specs on the midrange need to be a 2" dome with ~ 1" mounting depth and 4 ohms (because of the crossover, I am unsure how the crossover point will be affected by an 8 ohm midrange.

I feel that my 880 should be able to t/a the midrange and tweeter because they are so close together, they will act as one source.

My budget is $200 total, any suggestions?

[ramos 2]

been playing with a couple different dome mids for a while . My favorite so far are the usher 9845's . BUT The mounting depth on them is like 1 5/8", they run $70 each, and are 8ohm . Wonderful off axis response, and don't take much power

[///M5 2,833]

been playing with a couple different dome mids for a while . My favorite so far are the usher 9845's . BUT The mounting depth on them is like 1 5/8", they run $70 each, and are 8ohm . Wonderful off axis response, and don't take much power

Are they much different from the Daytons?

To the OP. I wouldn't use the stock crossover for this, if you want to run three way just build a simple 1st order network for the midrange to tweet slope and call it good. It will sound way better than using something that is no where optimized for what you buy.

[ramos 2]

The off axis response , and overall tonality is better IMHO with the ushers . I have a pair of the daytons as well . There is just something about the sound of them that seems peculiar to me.

[Flipx99 0]

been playing with a couple different dome mids for a while . My favorite so far are the usher 9845's . BUT The mounting depth on them is like 1 5/8", they run $70 each, and are 8ohm . Wonderful off axis response, and don't take much power

Are they much different from the Daytons?

To the OP. I wouldn't use the stock crossover for this, if you want to run three way just build a simple 1st order network for the midrange to tweet slope and call it good. It will sound way better than using something that is no where optimized for what you buy.

True enough...that would offer me the flexibility to use 8 ohm drivers as well. I don't really know where to begin. I guess I can contact Ology Audio for some directions.

[ANeonRider 3]

Why contatc Ology?

[Flipx99 0]

The off axis response , and overall tonality is better IMHO with the ushers . I have a pair of the daytons as well . There is just something about the sound of them that seems peculiar to me.

Problem is, being in a truck, the angle is much different that in a car.

In a truck you are at a much higher angle and your feet are in a much tighter space than most cars....

That feature also makes me apprehensive about mount a tweet down there. There would be no stage height.

[ANeonRider 3]

Stage height is a function of installation, not location of driver. Aim them right, and stage height there will be.

Ramos has been playing this game since we were in diapers.

[Flipx99 0]

Why contatc Ology?

He's the only one I know who even claims to know something about designing custom crossovers. I can build anything with instructions. Do you have other suggestions?

[sundownz 197]

I absolutely love the DLS Iridium IR3... I had my driver side unit way off-axis in my previous car (BMW 325i) in the factory mounting location. With a bit of EQ work on that side (thanks to the 3Sixty.2) it worked wonderfully... actually sounded quite good, IMHO, even before the EQ work

[ANeonRider 3]

Why contatc Ology?

He's the only one I know who even claims to know something about designing custom crossovers. I can build anything with instructions. Do you have other suggestions?

Someone else, he lives in too much of a fantasy world for me.

Figure out your drivers, and I'm sure you can get some help from us.

[Flipx99 0]

Stage height is a function of installation, not location of driver. Aim them right, and stage height there will be.

Ramos has been playing this game since we were in diapers.

It's the aim I am having issue with. The Cal27 tweeter does not come with an angle mount. It mounts just like a driver.

I have had some issues in the past trying to mount awooden mdf ring to plastic (glass, epoxy, etc). I am willing to listen to other methods though. I can make an angled ring to faciliatate aiming.

[ramos 2]

I absolutely love the DLS Iridium IR3... I had my driver side unit way off-axis in my previous car (BMW 325i) in the factory mounting location. With a bit of EQ work on that side (thanks to the 3Sixty.2) it worked wonderfully... actually sounded quite good, IMHO, even before the EQ work

I haven't gotten to play with the ir3's yet . Only guy around here with them is an ass

[Flipx99 0]

I absolutely love the DLS Iridium IR3... I had my driver side unit way off-axis in my previous car (BMW 325i) in the factory mounting location. With a bit of EQ work on that side (thanks to the 3Sixty.2) it worked wonderfully... actually sounded quite good, IMHO, even before the EQ work

That is the front-runner. Price is higher than I really want to pay, but will work the best for the application.

I have the option to mount them both higher in the doors, but I want to minimize PLD. The way to do that is in the kick. I was hoping someone with a truck (or did installs on them) would chime in to say

"Hey, I mounted my tweeter in the kick and it sounded fine"

[ramos 2]

The off axis response , and overall tonality is better IMHO with the ushers . I have a pair of the daytons as well . There is just something about the sound of them that seems peculiar to me.

Problem is, being in a truck, the angle is much different that in a car.

In a truck you are at a much higher angle and your feet are in a much tighter space than most cars....

That feature also makes me apprehensive about mount a tweet down there. There would be no stage height.

Hence the comments about off axis response . big factor when your stuck with few aiming and mounting options. I'm a big fugger , with huge arse feet . So no matter what vehicle of my own I install in. I have very similar problems as yours. Dome mids have off axis response that will freaking amaze you compared to coned drivers

[Flipx99 0]

Hence the comments about off axis response . big factor when your stuck with few aiming and mounting options. I'm a big fugger , with huge arse feet . So no matter what vehicle of my own I install in. I have very similar problems as yours. Dome mids have off axis response that will freaking amaze you compared to coned drivers

I can see how off axis would work in a car...The angle at which you sit in the seat is quite different than in a truck. Do you just think I am over analyzing my situation. I have seen your pic, if you don't block the sound, I guess my scrawny ass won't either.

Now...would you aim them or mount them in the kick where all drivers are on the same plane (the midbass will be in the door, but essentially the same plane.

I have developed a solution. I can just buy another set of kick panels if I don't like it.

Edited July 31, 2007 by Flipx99

[ramos 2]

I absolutely love the DLS Iridium IR3... I had my driver side unit way off-axis in my previous car (BMW 325i) in the factory mounting location. With a bit of EQ work on that side (thanks to the 3Sixty.2) it worked wonderfully... actually sounded quite good, IMHO, even before the EQ work

That is the front-runner. Price is higher than I really want to pay, but will work the best for the application.

I have the option to mount them both higher in the doors, but I want to minimize PLD. The way to do that is in the kick. I was hoping someone with a truck (or did installs on them) would chime in to say

"Hey, I mounted my tweeter in the kick and it sounded fine"

"hey , I mounted tweets in kicks in a bajillion trucks. Aiming took a while with some. But I wouldn't let the vehicle out of my shop unless it sounded fine " seriously though , some of the strangest things , that you would think " no way in hell would that work " actually do work . For instance , make a couple baffles to play with . try mounting tweets on top and mids on bottom. Then flip the baffle around so the tweets are on bottom and mids on top . Do an a/b test and see which stage sounds higher . 9/10 you will be surprised by the results because it goes against what your mind is telling you should happen

[ramos 2]

Hence the comments about off axis response . big factor when your stuck with few aiming and mounting options. I'm a big fugger , with huge arse feet . So no matter what vehicle of my own I install in. I have very similar problems as yours. Dome mids have off axis response that will freaking amaze you compared to coned drivers

I can see how off axis would work in a car...The angle at which you sit in the seat is quite different than in a truck. Do you just think I am over analyzing my situation. I have seen your pic, if you don't block the sound, I guess my scrawny ass won't either.

exactly , I don't care what anyone tells you . There are no set rules when it comes to sq ( as I'm finding out more and more each day ) . Some of the best sounding vehicles in the world are the simplest .

[Flipx99 0]

I absolutely love the DLS Iridium IR3... I had my driver side unit way off-axis in my previous car (BMW 325i) in the factory mounting location. With a bit of EQ work on that side (thanks to the 3Sixty.2) it worked wonderfully... actually sounded quite good, IMHO, even before the EQ work

That is the front-runner. Price is higher than I really want to pay, but will work the best for the application.

I have the option to mount them both higher in the doors, but I want to minimize PLD. The way to do that is in the kick. I was hoping someone with a truck (or did installs on them) would chime in to say

"Hey, I mounted my tweeter in the kick and it sounded fine"

"hey , I mounted tweets in kicks in a bajillion trucks. Aiming took a while with some. But I wouldn't let the vehicle out of my shop unless it sounded fine " seriously though , some of the strangest things , that you would think " no way in hell would that work " actually do work . For instance , make a couple baffles to play with . try mounting tweets on top and mids on bottom. Then flip the baffle around so the tweets are on bottom and mids on top . Do an a/b test and see which stage sounds higher . 9/10 you will be surprised by the results because it goes against what your mind is telling you should happen

What is the best way to mount that baffle to the kick?

Also does it matter that the baffles are not symmetrical? I have a hood release on the driver's side in the way.

[DevilDriver 28]

Not many implemenations of tweeters in the kicks that work well in S10's, in my opinion.

If you need a crossover design, I can probably do one and email you the schematic, if you'd like.

[Flipx99 0]

Not many implemenations of tweeters in the kicks that work well in S10's, in my opinion.

If you need a crossover design, I can probably do one and email you the schematic, if you'd like.

What do you suggest? I see many people on the s-10 forum mount theirs high in the A-pillar...which I don't think would sound good.

If you don't think it will work, would a better suggestion be to mount them around the midbass in the door?

The midrange and tweet about 3" above the cutout?

[DevilDriver 28]

Not many implemenations of tweeters in the kicks that work well in S10's, in my opinion.

If you need a crossover design, I can probably do one and email you the schematic, if you'd like.

What do you suggest? I see many people on the s-10 forum mount theirs high in the A-pillar...which I don't think would sound good.

If you don't think it will work, would a better suggestion be to mount them around the midbass in the door?

The midrange and tweet about 3" above the cutout?

There are a lot who have had good success with either an a-pillar mount or dash mounted in the spot where the 4x6's are. In my opinion, it's better to deal with the early windshield reflection than it is to try and work around the diffraction you see when installed in the kicks. If you mount the tweeter in the door off-axis, you tend to get a really drooping top end.

From the midrange and midbass, most of your stage height and localization comes from having equal pathlength distances. For your top end (above roughly 2kHz), most localization comes from interaural intensity differences, meaning the difference in SPL and frequency response.

I kind of got ahead of myself earlier: it's best to pair the location with the crossover points. Have you given any consideration to the bandwidth each piece will be covering?

[Flipx99 0]

Not many implemenations of tweeters in the kicks that work well in S10's, in my opinion.

If you need a crossover design, I can probably do one and email you the schematic, if you'd like.

What do you suggest? I see many people on the s-10 forum mount theirs high in the A-pillar...which I don't think would sound good.

If you don't think it will work, would a better suggestion be to mount them around the midbass in the door?

The midrange and tweet about 3" above the cutout?

There are a lot who have had good success with either an a-pillar mount or dash mounted in the spot where the 4x6's are. In my opinion, it's better to deal with the early windshield reflection than it is to try and work around the diffraction you see when installed in the kicks. If you mount the tweeter in the door off-axis, you tend to get a really drooping top end.

From the midrange and midbass, most of your stage height and localization comes from having equal pathlength distances. For your top end (above roughly 2kHz), most localization comes from interaural intensity differences, meaning the difference in SPL and frequency response.

I kind of got ahead of myself earlier: it's best to pair the location with the crossover points. Have you given any consideration to the bandwidth each piece will be covering?

I had a similar suspicion about the door mounting.

Yes....

Subs 20 - 63 hertz @ 8 db slop

Midbass 80 @ 12 db ---- 600 @ 12

Midrange 600 -- 2500

Tweeter 2500 +

How does that affect location?

I don't think I can fit both in that place, but I am down to fabricate anything that will work and I am willing to take the challenge.

Edited July 31, 2007 by Flipx99

[DevilDriver 28]

I had a similar suspicion about the door mounting.

Yes....

Subs 20 - 63 hertz @ 8 db slop

Midbass 80 @ 12 db ---- 600 @ 12

Midrange 600 -- 2500

Tweeter 2500 +

How does that affect location?

I don't think I can fit both in that place, but I am down to fabricate anything that will work and I am willing to take the challenge.

Personally, I think you should cover a much wider bandwidth with your midrange; maybe add an octave on the top and bottom (300Hz and 5kHz respectively). I have to get back to work, but I'll take a look at each driver in more detail tonight and try to add to this from there. The real advantage of a 3 way comes to life when you have a midrange that covers the most bandwidth, a large and powerful midbass, and a smaller dynamic tweeter for that sparkle on the absolute highest frequencies.

[Flipx99 0]

I had a similar suspicion about the door mounting.

Yes....

Subs 20 - 63 hertz @ 8 db slop

Midbass 80 @ 12 db ---- 600 @ 12

Midrange 600 -- 2500

Tweeter 2500 +

How does that affect location?

I don't think I can fit both in that place, but I am down to fabricate anything that will work and I am willing to take the challenge.

Personally, I think you should cover a much wider bandwidth with your midrange; maybe add an octave on the top and bottom (300Hz and 5kHz respectively). I have to get back to work, but I'll take a look at each driver in more detail tonight and try to add to this from there. The real advantage of a 3 way comes to life when you have a midrange that covers the most bandwidth, a large and powerful midbass, and a smaller dynamic tweeter for that sparkle on the absolute highest frequencies.

Gotcha....I look forward to your reponse.

Mounting in the 4x6 slot also opens me up to 3" cone extended range drivers, I can post a few of those here as well.