Need some help with Amp & Sub combo

[RamenNoodles 0]

Hey all.

Newbie here. I come from CarAudioForum. I didnt seem to get much help there from the people so I thought I would drop a line here. This place seems like a great place to ask questions and help out.

My Current setup;

2000 Accord Coupe

Optima Red Top

Tsunami Amp 0/1 Wiring

2.4F Cap

2Ga amp power wire

(Just purchased 100sqft of fatmat, will be installed in a week or so)

And thats about it.

I just sold my 2 12w6v2s and my 1000/1, I was getting bored. Not enough bass for me. I was hitting 147dB with a dB meter I had purchased from a guy who use to own a car audio shop. Snagged it for $150 instead of buying TL for $600.

But anyways, I was planning on getting 1 15" Fi BTL paired with a ______ amp. Im kinda stuck on an amplifier. I would really love a Sundown 3000 BUT they are really expensive compared to others. Im a college student and I cant exactly use student loans on amplifiers and subwoofers. (If I could, I would). But I was referred to the Crunch GP3000D which is 3000W RMS and for only $450.

I plan on getting a custom made box as well so now worries. Found a guy in NH who makes excellent boxes. But I was originally planning on having the woofer face towards the trunk. I watched some of the SSA videos with the woofers facing upwards and then it clicked, "Hey, I bet I could do that with my trunk" My trunk is pretty damn big, the ass end on the accord coupe is like JLo's. Now I only have about 17" clearance so the box standing tall would have to be about 15" so there is room for flex. The subwoofer ring would be lowered into the mdf a little so its more flush so the sub wont be popping out too much.

Would that 15" Fi BTL & a Crunch GP3000D be a decent combo together? I was thinking about just buying the Crunch GP2500D which is 2500wRMS but at around half the cost for $230 and I would only sacrifice 500wRMS.

I know this is alot, sorry about that. I just had a lot of un answered questions from CAF. Thanks in advance all!

[Andrew 0]

The crunch gp3000 is a solid amp for the money. However, the gp2500 is rated for 2500 "dynamic watts"... Which is their new term for peak. You're not going to see 2500 or even 2000 from that gp2500.

As far as the sub choice goes... With the BTL I've been told that you should face the sub and port into the car and seal it off from the rest of the trunk so that the bass goes straight into the cabin. Facing the sub up in a trunk car is not a good idea, you will have more success facing forwards or backwards. Shoot for 4-4.5 cu ft @ 32 and it should waNg.

Hope that helps!

Andrew

[ronrico418 0]

The crunch gp3000 is a solid amp for the money. However, the gp2500 is rated for 2500 "dynamic watts"... Which is their new term for peak. You're not going to see 2500 or even 2000 from that gp2500.

As far as the sub choice goes... With the BTL I've been told that you should face the sub and port into the car and seal it off from the rest of the trunk so that the bass goes straight into the cabin. Facing the sub up in a trunk car is not a good idea, you will have more success facing forwards or backwards. Shoot for 4-4.5 cu ft @ 32 and it should waNg.

Hope that helps!

Andrew

First off I have always been against facing a sub upwards for several reasons but I must say The BTL works very good like that and the Fi bad boy Steve Meade may be to thank for the popularity of that with his awesome website. www.*****.com Not saying he was the first to do it but just check out his install you'll understand better what I'm trying to convey! I have personally gone against my own beliefs and must say it works really good.

As far as firing directly into the cab goes I would look more into that. Seems like the longer you can delay the sound from getting to your ear , the more time the note has to develop. Popular way (again along w/ Steve Meade) is sub up port back. If you put the port on the passenger side the driver side will be a lil louder and vise versa if you'd rather have the passenger getting his or her head banged a lil more. Port in the middle should be a lil more even for both driver and passenger!

As far as amps go......In my opinion Iwould spend some book money...hehe but another "choice", choice would be to get an affordable 350-400 Sundown 1500. My BTL sounded awesome with 1500 on it!!!!!!!! Then when you can get a lil more dough you can simply add another 1500 by "strapping" them together in a master slave relationship or trade it in to Jacob @ Sundown and he'll switch you out for a 3000 at a fair price. Then you'll have what I got boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sundown definately performs and bigboys are using em'

Good Luck

Send a pm if you'd like

PEACE Ronrico

[RamenNoodles 0]

Ahhh those maxxsonics bastards. Now that would explain why that amplifier is so cheap compared to the GP3000D. I will be buying it off of onlinecarstereo.com for $449 then. Sounds like a plan.

But the thing with my trunk is the opening. Im not sure if I will be able to fit a box like that in there you know. i think the max width I can fit into the opening is like 17" wide. that is a huge box isnt it? 4.5-5 CuFt?

Man I wish I just had a trailblazer or something. Working in a car is a pain in the arse. Im not sure how Meade got that box for those 2 18's in there.

Would there be a big difference between the 15" BTL and the 12" BTL? They obviously are the same, 2000wRMS but doesnt the 15" put out more air and can achieve bigger dB output?

[ronrico418 0]

Ahhh those maxxsonics bastards. Now that would explain why that amplifier is so cheap compared to the GP3000D. I will be buying it off of onlinecarstereo.com for $449 then. Sounds like a plan.

But the thing with my trunk is the opening. Im not sure if I will be able to fit a box like that in there you know. i think the max width I can fit into the opening is like 17" wide. that is a huge box isnt it? 4.5-5 CuFt?

Man I wish I just had a trailblazer or something. Working in a car is a pain in the arse. Im not sure how Meade got that box for those 2 18's in there.

Would there be a big difference between the 15" BTL and the 12" BTL? They obviously are the same, 2000wRMS but doesnt the 15" put out more air and can achieve bigger dB output?

I'd go 15" BTL. I built one in a car with only 3.8 CF and it impresses everyone. The local JLW7 installer guessed 2 15's......Gotta love that chit boy.........

Peace, Joe Rod

Steve built that in the car. /thats a whole other story

[Andrew 0]

The crunch gp3000 is a solid amp for the money. However, the gp2500 is rated for 2500 "dynamic watts"... Which is their new term for peak. You're not going to see 2500 or even 2000 from that gp2500.

As far as the sub choice goes... With the BTL I've been told that you should face the sub and port into the car and seal it off from the rest of the trunk so that the bass goes straight into the cabin. Facing the sub up in a trunk car is not a good idea, you will have more success facing forwards or backwards. Shoot for 4-4.5 cu ft @ 32 and it should waNg.

Hope that helps!

Andrew

First off I have always been against facing a sub upwards for several reasons but I must say The BTL works very good like that and the Fi bad boy Steve Meade may be to thank for the popularity of that with his awesome website. www.*****.com Not saying he was the first to do it but just check out his install you'll understand better what I'm trying to convey! I have personally gone against my own beliefs and must say it works really good.

As far as firing directly into the cab goes I would look more into that. Seems like the longer you can delay the sound from getting to your ear , the more time the note has to develop. Popular way (again along w/ Steve Meade) is sub up port back. If you put the port on the passenger side the driver side will be a lil louder and vise versa if you'd rather have the passenger getting his or her head banged a lil more. Port in the middle should be a lil more even for both driver and passenger!

As far as amps go......In my opinion Iwould spend some book money...hehe but another "choice", choice would be to get an affordable 350-400 Sundown 1500. My BTL sounded awesome with 1500 on it!!!!!!!! Then when you can get a lil more dough you can simply add another 1500 by "strapping" them together in a master slave relationship or trade it in to Jacob @ Sundown and he'll switch you out for a 3000 at a fair price. Then you'll have what I got boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sundown definately performs and bigboys are using em'

Good Luck

Send a pm if you'd like

PEACE Ronrico

Lol, no disrespect man, but just because Steve Meade does it, doesn't mean it's the best way for everyones installs. Meade's is in a SUV first of all... Subs up work alot better in SUV's because there is alot more clearance between the peak of the subs excursion and the roof. He's working with 17" of hieght so you're looking at 3 " of clearance from the rear deck to the sub TOPS. 17" is assuming that he's calculated for the hieght of the angle that he'll need to slide the box in. The box with the sub facing up in a honda has never worked well for me, or my friends installs unless there is some sort of cut-out of the rear deck to where the sub is firing straight at. Sealing the sub off from the trunk will elminate any trunk rattle that you may have along with the ability to move much more air (assuming the sub will be visible, i.e. Seats down)

As far as the amps go, there's no need to pay $700 for 2 used 1500 watt amps when you can buy an Autotek MM4000.1 for the same price brand new with a warranty. I'm not saying used products are a bad thing, it's just that Sundown isn't really a college budget friendly amp. Keep an eye on the classifieds on here and over on ca.com, for there's always rediculously well priced used equipt. for sale.

This is from one college student to another lol Goodnight!

Edited March 26, 2008 by 1loudhnda

[Andrew 0]

Ahhh those maxxsonics bastards. Now that would explain why that amplifier is so cheap compared to the GP3000D. I will be buying it off of onlinecarstereo.com for $449 then. Sounds like a plan.

But the thing with my trunk is the opening. Im not sure if I will be able to fit a box like that in there you know. i think the max width I can fit into the opening is like 17" wide. that is a huge box isnt it? 4.5-5 CuFt?

Man I wish I just had a trailblazer or something. Working in a car is a pain in the arse. Im not sure how Meade got that box for those 2 18's in there.

Would there be a big difference between the 15" BTL and the 12" BTL? They obviously are the same, 2000wRMS but doesnt the 15" put out more air and can achieve bigger dB output?

17" WIDE?! Are you sure lol

[RamenNoodles 0]

Ahhh those maxxsonics bastards. Now that would explain why that amplifier is so cheap compared to the GP3000D. I will be buying it off of onlinecarstereo.com for $449 then. Sounds like a plan.

But the thing with my trunk is the opening. Im not sure if I will be able to fit a box like that in there you know. i think the max width I can fit into the opening is like 17" wide. that is a huge box isnt it? 4.5-5 CuFt?

Man I wish I just had a trailblazer or something. Working in a car is a pain in the arse. Im not sure how Meade got that box for those 2 18's in there.

Would there be a big difference between the 15" BTL and the 12" BTL? They obviously are the same, 2000wRMS but doesnt the 15" put out more air and can achieve bigger dB output?

I'd go 15" BTL. I built one in a car with only 3.8 CF and it impresses everyone. The local JLW7 installer guessed 2 15's......Gotta love that chit boy.........

Peace, Joe Rod

Steve built that in the car. /thats a whole other story

Yea I will most likely go with the 15" BTL. I want people to be awed when the get in. Hell. I may even think about taking out the back seats. Im getting balls deep into car audio right now. it may not be the smartest choice to take them out but the only reason I use them is so my buddies can get rides. Thats one less excuse to haul them lol.

But thanks for the help 418s and honda, I appreciate the quick, great responses. Sorry for the questions though. My local audio store, Westminster Speed and Sound doesnt know dick about car audio. I mean they do but they dont. They do nice work is about all I can credit them. They are still charging $1099 for a 13w7. I mean come on. I went in there and asked them if they had even hear of Fi, RE, DD, Crunch, Sundown and they had no idea what I was talking about. They are the typical, "YAH, WE HAVE ROCKFORD AND JBL. JL AUDIO IS TEH BEST IN THE WORLD!!" Uh, no.

I think I know more about audio than half of the guys in there. All they know how to do is install them. Congrats, thats only half the battle.

I mean how loud are you talking when you say 1 1500D and the 15" BTL? I was hitting 145 dB constant in my accord with my 2 12wv2s and my 1000/1 with no sound deadening. I will add a good 2 layers of FatMat in the car throughout so that should help dB gain. Would that sundown 1500D and the 15 be louder then them or would i need two of them?

[RamenNoodles 0]

Thats also another bad thing about my accord, Only one of the rear seats fold down. Its the one on the driver side. The other side doesnt move. Maybe I can install some sort of hinge for that so that it can fold down as well. Otherwise I will only be able to see about 12" of a 15" sub.

I will take some pictures of what I am working with and post them so you can see exactly what I am talking about.

[ronrico418 0]

The crunch gp3000 is a solid amp for the money. However, the gp2500 is rated for 2500 "dynamic watts"... Which is their new term for peak. You're not going to see 2500 or even 2000 from that gp2500.

As far as the sub choice goes... With the BTL I've been told that you should face the sub and port into the car and seal it off from the rest of the trunk so that the bass goes straight into the cabin. Facing the sub up in a trunk car is not a good idea, you will have more success facing forwards or backwards. Shoot for 4-4.5 cu ft @ 32 and it should waNg.

Hope that helps!

Andrew

First off I have always been against facing a sub upwards for several reasons but I must say The BTL works very good like that and the Fi bad boy Steve Meade may be to thank for the popularity of that with his awesome website. www.*****.com Not saying he was the first to do it but just check out his install you'll understand better what I'm trying to convey! I have personally gone against my own beliefs and must say it works really good.

As far as firing directly into the cab goes I would look more into that. Seems like the longer you can delay the sound from getting to your ear , the more time the note has to develop. Popular way (again along w/ Steve Meade) is sub up port back. If you put the port on the passenger side the driver side will be a lil louder and vise versa if you'd rather have the passenger getting his or her head banged a lil more. Port in the middle should be a lil more even for both driver and passenger!

As far as amps go......In my opinion Iwould spend some book money...hehe but another "choice", choice would be to get an affordable 350-400 Sundown 1500. My BTL sounded awesome with 1500 on it!!!!!!!! Then when you can get a lil more dough you can simply add another 1500 by "strapping" them together in a master slave relationship or trade it in to Jacob @ Sundown and he'll switch you out for a 3000 at a fair price. Then you'll have what I got boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sundown definately performs and bigboys are using em'

Good Luck

Send a pm if you'd like

PEACE Ronrico

Lol, no disrespect man, but just because Steve Meade does it, doesn't mean it's the best way for everyones installs. Meade's is in a SUV first of all... Subs up work alot better in SUV's because there is alot more clearance between the peak of the subs excursion and the roof. He's working with 17" of hieght so you're looking at 3 " of clearance from the rear deck to the sub TOPS. 17" is assuming that he's calculated for the hieght of the angle that he'll need to slide the box in. The box with the sub facing up in a honda has never worked well for me, or my friends installs unless there is some sort of cut-out of the rear deck to where the sub is firing straight at. Sealing the sub off from the trunk will elminate any trunk rattle that you may have along with the ability to move much more air (assuming the sub will be visible, i.e. Seats down)

As far as the amps go, there's no need to pay $700 for 2 used 1500 watt amps when you can buy an Autotek MM4000.1 for the same price brand new with a warranty. I'm not saying used products are a bad thing, it's just that Sundown isn't really a college budget friendly amp. Keep an eye on the classifieds on here and over on ca.com, for there's always rediculously well priced used equipt. for sale.

This is from one college student to another lol Goodnight!

Cool man and not trying you.... Personally I know a lot of people who's slam systems I'd go with over Steve M. I was just say ing that from his awesome site and vids that a lot of people have been exposed to that cabinet. I wanted to cut away the metal but the owner instead opted for me to build a "bassboard" with 5/8 plywood mounted underneath the rear deck. I should have said that and it worked really good. Still I would do subs back before forward to let the notes have a better chance to fully develop before reaching the drivers ear but either way would still get down. Some people prefer the "look' of pulling thier seats down and seeig their sexy subs hehe. I like the low notes so I would face rear personally. I have heard the style you suggest sound good also but as a whole I still prefer firingh rear between the 2. Only time I fire forward is in a SQ scenario (maybe)

As far as amps my suggestion was trying to match the budget. If he can afford a Autotek MM4000.1 then go ahead and get a Sundown 3000. I was understanding he wanted to spend about half that and wanted to let him know that 1500 can be pleasurable on a BTL with the option to add another down the road (book buy back day?) hehe...... also the SUNDOWNs used are offered with up to a year warranty......just so you know!

The Autotek is a proven bad-boy though

Peace Bro's joey

[RamenNoodles 0]

17" WIDE?! Are you sure lol

LOL, Nah I meant to say high. Let me redo some measurements to see exactly and I will post them.

I could have been a perv and said 17" long

[RamenNoodles 0]

But hey 4FIBTL

How loud would that 15" with one sundown 1500D be compared to my 2 12w7 & a 1000/1?

Im looking for a big improvement from constant 145db and record of 148db.

I think the crunch gp3000D is my best bet for money and power. I would love to go sundown but man, i still need gas lol.

[ronrico418 0]

But hey 4FIBTL

How loud would that 15" with one sundown 1500D be compared to my 2 12w7 & a 1000/1?

Im looking for a big improvement from constant 145db and record of 148db.

I think the crunch gp3000D is my best bet for money and power. I would love to go sundown but man, i still need gas lol.

Nobody including you r local JL dealer would guess it is only one sub plus you can always look forward to upgrading later.. I would get a dual mag BTL w/ 1 SNDWN 1500 for now.

As far as the JL W7s off a 1000/1. I would guess it should be more impressive. Of course those W7s would have loved to have 3 more 1000s on them!

Thats the thing and probably another topic all together. If you want to run a single W7 with 2 1000/1s thats going to cost somewhere between 1800(ebay prices) and 2800 (new). Thats for one sub settup. What if you wanted 4? Around 11K new? NOT ME 1 BTL off a Sundown 1500 for 1400 new----------4 BTLS off 2 Sundown 3000s all new around 3700. 4 BTLs off 4 Sundown 3000s barelt over 6K new. Not even a contest. Fi/Sundown ROCKS period... UP the voltage a lil and those Sundowns will GET DOWN BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anytime bro, JOE ROD

[Andrew 0]

Remember, going from 1000 to 1500 rms is going to be a barely audible difference if you had hooked the JL subs up to the sundown after the jl1000/1. I personally hate JL (bring on the flaming)... But either way, I can't see sacrificing cone area and only gaining 500 rms being a noticable difference, if not a loss in spl. If you do decide to go with the BTL, you should def. look into putting 2k+ to it at least, and that's only based on the theory that doubling your power gives you a +3db increase.

[RamenNoodles 0]

Shoot guys, I meant to say 2 12w6, not two 12w7 lol.

Yea I think that I will just go the crunch route right now considering the price to power ratio. I would love to have sundown but they just are not within my budget.

[Andrew 0]

Shoot guys, I meant to say 2 12w6, not two 12w7 lol.

Yea I think that I will just go the crunch route right now considering the price to power ratio. I would love to have sundown but they just are not within my budget.

I'm with you 100% on the budget thing man lol. Honestly, I'd keep my eye on the classifieds... You can pick up a very nice used amp for the LOW. Kicker kx2500's are always going for 350-400 over there.

[RamenNoodles 0]

What site are you referring to? Didnt quite get that. And I just took some pictures of my trunk etc.

I will post them after I finish this damn essay.

[RamenNoodles 0]

Ok so this is exactly what Im working with here... Pics will be posted with explanation beneath

That is the back part of my trunk after the wheel wells. Pictured is my 2.4F Cap with my 2gauge setup, remote wire, RCAs etc.

This is how wide and tall I have to fit in a box. Along with a whole view of the trunk (bad lighting)

This is the drivers side after the wheel well

This is the passenger side. There is a slight difference between driver and passenger side, Different holders etc.

This is the top of my trunk. Seat belt covers speakers etc.

Position of my alternator, I plan on getting a new one along with upgrading the Big 3. ( how hard would this be with my alt position?)

Optima Red top

Tsunami 1/0 Ga kit.

I just figured out how to fold down both of my seats! SCORE! I can definitely fire the sub and port into the cabin now. Hairtrick?

A glance from inside my car to my trunk with the seats down.

Ok now everyone has an idea as to what im working with here. Now can I get some new thoughts/opinions?

[RamenNoodles 0]

anyone?

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I would start with a single driver, since you mentioned the BTL, maybe go single BTL 12 and put some good clean power to it and a strong box. If you feel it is not enough, add from there.