why is "SQL" looked down upon, so much?

[SQLMonte 0]

You aren't coherent. Two different things. Judging and reality are NOT the same.

If either one of us isn't coherent it would be you seeing as how you clearly stated earlier that "there is no true way to measure SQ", but now you're trying to argue to me that SQ is not subjective????? How is that logically consistent? I have not waivered one bit, you seem to have short term memory loss or something

.............completely subjective based on the fact that there is no real way to measure SQ.

So you see, you said the same thing then that i'm saying now so why do you insist on arguing with me when in reality we agree? If there is no real way to measure SQ then that means there is a human element that plays a part in determining how accurate the reproduction is so to tell me SQ is not subjective, when you've clearly stated as much as indicated by your quote above, is just plain silly!

And just to make it clear one last time, I agree that the goal of SQ is accurate reproduction of the source, nothing subjective about that. But the fact remains that until there is a device that can measure SQ there will always be a subjective element to it, be it a SQ comp judge, the installer, the end user, whomever!

I guess all of these speaker engineers forgo any acoustical measurements and just call in SQ competition judges in order to evaluate their speakers prior to production. Because acoustical measurements don't tell us anything about the performance of a speaker. It's these judges that define sound quality. It's the format of a car audio competition that happens to have the term "sound quality" in their title that provides the definition of sound quality to the rest of the world.

And sadly, for whatever reason, this makes sense to you and is what you are arguing in support of. What's pathetic is you have no actual rebuttal to this. All you can do is pretend that nothing important was said when every point you made was shown to be ignorant, and then cling to this moronic idea that sound quality is defined by a car audio competition format. You either haven't read this thread, or haven't understood it.

An engineer can take all the acoustical measurements they want and dial things in until they're blue in the face while that speaker is on the bench, but as soon as that speaker is placed into the automobile environment the whole game changes and we all know that so why would you even begin to blabber about such nonsense? You can take that same speaker and put it in two different cars and get two different results, hell you can even put that same speaker in two different locations in the same car and get two different results! So many things come in to play in the automobile environment that effect the SQ of your system that simply having speakers that are 100% accurate (if that's even possible) isn't nearly enough to dictate the accuracy of the reproduction of your system. How's that for a rebuttal?

My use of SQ competitions as an example of the subjective nature of SQ is just that, an example! The same holds true no matter if you compete or not because at the end of the day unless there is a machine to grade a system and show absolutely no bias or preference to certain aspects whatsoever (like a TL does for SPL), then it is safe to say that SQ is subjective, SPL is finite.

[johnecon2001 82]

This forum isn't the place for bickering. Obviously there are two strong opinions, and everyone else has stopped talking to let the argument take place. Please just PM each other.