Ear vs Oscilloscope

[Typicaljawaiian 3]

I went to two local shops recently and asked for help in setting the gains on my system. I asked if that was something they did and what methods they used. The first shop said they turn the HU vol to about 75% and set all the gains by ear. Are you f**king serious! What about my HU and my 4 channel amp?

The second shop I went to told me that they had access to an O scope and they would do it at no cost. Wow, I was ecstatic. The only catch is they couldn't do it right then, even though they said it would only be ~15 min. It was 3:00 in the afternoon and the installer said to come back at 7:00 pm, so I was like sure i'll be back. When I arrived at 7:00, the owner of the shop said everyone went home. I wanted to kill somebody.

I drove 1 1/2 hours to get this done and waited around for a whole day for nothing. Again I wanted to kill somebody.

Anyway, my question is this; Is asking a Car Audio shop to set my gains w/ a O-scope legit or is it a dumb question?

[jcarter1885 995]

Read this:

Setting amp gains. - SSA Car Audio Forum

If you can get it set by an O-Scope and they have one then go for it since that is the best way to set it besides ear and if you arent comfortable setting it by ear then use a DMM.

[Typicaljawaiian 3]

I'm thinking of buying a scope off e-bay. I'm a bit of a perfectionist lol. Just want to know scientifically, as I don't think prayers for a subwoofer count in church.

[Adrian_D 520]

For me the oscillopscope has been helpful in interpreting the changes in sound when setting the gain.

You should be able to hear stress in the speakers / subs with music, which is more important than setting the gain with an oscilloscope.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

I have always used the old fashion way and used my ears. But lately with the newer higher power amplifiers I use the DMM or have a friend at the local shop use the oscillopscope.

[djphilly 11]

If you have an ear for sound then have some confidence to set it by ear. I would prefer to have them set by an O-scope so you can see when they clip and at what level.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

I think setting the gains on highs is as easy as it gets.

It should sound the same on volume 15 as it does on volume 30, only louder.

I am sure you have had it turned up and had to back off it because it hurt to listen to it. That was clipping, not too much power. You can crank the hell out of a clean signal and it's still pleasant to listen to. If it sound bad, harsh, or sibilant, turn the gain down. It should not hurt your ears to listen to it even at a very high volume level.

The sub bass region is a little tricky, but with practice you will get that too.

EDIT:

I did not mean in any way that loud music will not hurt your hearing. We all know it does. If your ears hurt or ring you are damaging them.

If you are honest you know you are clipping because your highs will be harsh, the vocals break up and become sibilant, shrill, or harsh, the whole experience is what I was describing as painful. Shitty would be a better word I guess.

If your components are not just as clear at a high volume as they were at a reduced volume turn down your gains. Easy.

If you want it louder buy a bigger amp.

[Doctor Q 12]

I think setting the gains on highs is as easy as it gets.

It should sound the same on volume 15 as it does on volume 30, only louder.

I am sure you have had it turned up and had to back off it because it hurt to listen to it. That was clipping, not too much power. You can crank the hell out of a clean signal and it's still pleasant to listen to. If it sound bad, harsh, or sibilant, turn the gain down. It should not hurt your ears to listen to it even at a very high volume level.

The sub bass region is a little tricky, but with practice you will get that too.

i just learned something new.. i always thought pain was just because i listened to it so loud for too long. thanks lancelot

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

I think setting the gains on highs is as easy as it gets.

It should sound the same on volume 15 as it does on volume 30, only louder.

I am sure you have had it turned up and had to back off it because it hurt to listen to it. That was clipping, not too much power. You can crank the hell out of a clean signal and it's still pleasant to listen to. If it sound bad, harsh, or sibilant, turn the gain down. It should not hurt your ears to listen to it even at a very high volume level.

The sub bass region is a little tricky, but with practice you will get that too.

i just learned something new.. i always thought pain was just because i listened to it so loud for too long. thanks lancelot

I better add to that if that is what people are going to get out of what I typed. If you ears are hurting or ringing you are indeed damaging your hearing from a high SPL.

What I meant was if the sound is harsh, "painfull", hard to listen, not clean, etc.

[Duran 387]

I STRONGLY disagree with you Sir-Lancelot.

[emh9009 199]

I think setting the gains on highs is as easy as it gets.

It should sound the same on volume 15 as it does on volume 30, only louder.

I am sure you have had it turned up and had to back off it because it hurt to listen to it. That was clipping, not too much power.You can crank the hell out of a clean signal and it's still pleasant to listen to. If it sound bad, harsh, or sibilant, turn the gain down. It should not hurt your ears to listen to it even at a very high volume level.

The sub bass region is a little tricky, but with practice you will get that too.

that doesnt sound right...

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

I STRONGLY disagree with you Sir-Lancelot.

Enlighten me.

All or partly?

I am not above learning a thing or two.

[Typicaljawaiian 3]

I STRONGLY disagree with you Sir-Lancelot.

Enlighten me.

All or partly?

I am not above learning a thing or two.

X2

[Duran 387]

I STRONGLY disagree with you Sir-Lancelot.

Enlighten me.

All or partly?

I am not above learning a thing or two.

Clipping does not determine if it hurts your hearing or not, volume does.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

I STRONGLY disagree with you Sir-Lancelot.

Enlighten me.

All or partly?

I am not above learning a thing or two.

Clipping does not determine if it hurts your hearing or not, volume does.

Anything else you disagree with? I feel you on that one, but thought I took care of it when I replied to Dr Q. I can modify my post if you want because it is misleading. I dont want people thinking high DB levels wont hurt their hearing either. The word painfull can be misleading. I did not mean hurting your ears, but rather sounding like shit.

[Duran 387]

I STRONGLY disagree with you Sir-Lancelot.

Enlighten me.

All or partly?

I am not above learning a thing or two.

Clipping does not determine if it hurts your hearing or not, volume does.

Anything else you disagree with? I feel you on that one, but thought I took care of it when I replied to Dr Q. I can modify my post if you want because it is misleading. I dont want people thinking high DB levels wont hurt their hearing either. The word painfull can be misleading. I did not mean hurting your ears, but rather sounding like shit.

If you did edit your post and noted why that would be helpful in case members don't scroll down to this post. Thank you.

[NB50 206]

I STRONGLY disagree with you Sir-Lancelot.

Enlighten me.

All or partly?

I am not above learning a thing or two.

Clipping does not determine if it hurts your hearing or not, volume does.

There is so many ways this can be interpreted, my stock stereo actually hurt my ears on long drives. "Listener fatigue" what I refer to it as, your ears hurt from listening to the stereo for long periods (4hours+) no loud bass just a poor setup stereo. Listening to my custom setup at equal or higher volumes for a long period (4hours+) of time didn't hurt the ears at all. I'm not talking hearing loss but your ears actually hurt, like you had your finger moving around in your ear for way to long.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

I agree Bromo, but I can see where SSA does not want me going around saying loud music wont hurt your ears. Thats not what I meant, but I see Duran's point and edited my post.

Fact is when the music is clean and clear you can turn it up pretty damn loud and not even realize how loud it is. Sometimes I think it's pretty normal level even with the subs off and I cant hear my wife in the seat next to me.

What I was trying to say is that when you have clipping and a dirty signal you WANT to turn it down because of exactly what you described, listening fatigue.

[///M5 2,833]

Clipping or more aptly put distortion is what hurts my ears. I also don't mean physiologically but sonically. Much more so than loud and clean.

[Duran 387]

I agree gentlemen, but his post can be confusing for a new user and felt it should be edited and explained.