peerless 6.5" sls midbass

[cobra93 47]

Here's a good read on passive crossovers if anyone has some time to kill.

http://sound.westhost.com/lr-passive.htm

I just read the link you posted, I'm still trying to get my head around allot of it, but a very good read. Thank you.

Great link, there is a ton of information on that index page. Thanks man!!!!

That was a great read. I still have to find out how two 4 ohm drivers on a passive crossover present a 4 ohm load (static) on an amplifier.

I don't understand that one, at all.

[cobra93 47]

Somehow this is the first I've seen this thread...and only read this page, but will follow now.

I think you guys are all battling something that no one has yet referenced. It is all installation. That being said, I'd like to understand how you aimed your 3's, what processing you are using to correct for the anomalies of the install, and more specifically at what frequencies they sound weird. If you haven't yet, playing some warble tones in different frequency bins will help you isolate those frequencies.

As with any speaker system having a single driver play as much of the frequency spectra as possible is a benefit, but that benefit can quickly degrade if you do not have them installed (read mounting, aiming, processing, deadening...) in the right way. From what I see/hear comment wise above I am sure this is the case.

As for the TG9, Scan comments that Adrian made above. I'd also put those comments in the same category. The 15m can be well worth the difference; however, the TG9 is a lot more forgiving and easier to play with so regularly it may be a better choice.

And yes, those SLS should have more on the bottom end, but they roll off so fast you will NOT be able to use them with a large format tweeter. Perhaps a big 2" tweet/mid, but not just a tweeter.

I will go back in this thread t try and answer your questions the best I can.

This all started with a simple question "Would mounting mid bass speakers in this location color the sound in the 75 -250 hertz frequency range?"

I was referring to placing them behind the door pocket in this picture. There is a black, separate piece of plastic that forms the back/inside pocket that would be removed.

The sls would fire into this chamber.

This has snowballed from there.

I will reread the comments Adrian posted as it has been a while since it was posted. I'll need a few to make this as clear as I can.

I will also try to summarize the best I can with where I'm at now and how I got to this point.

[cobra93 47]

This is a long post, sorry, but should convey the series of events that leads to where I stand now.

This is what I'm working with now.

The entire truck has received some type of deadening.

Head unit..................Clarion HX-D10........... No processing.........3 band parametric eq.

I have a brand new eclipse av8533 that I could install and will give me a better eq. as well as time alignment and individual driver level control.

Front stage amp (amps).....jl 300/2 .. sundown 125.2

" " speakers ....... jl xr-570 component coax 80 hertz high pass. These give me very little mid bass.

I have no intention of running any rear speakers besides subs.

I ran across the tangband w3 bambo and the fountek fr88's and thought one main speaker would give me better imaging and possibly simplify installation and tuning.

These are the best locations I've found for them in testing, with the left side being dominant for obvious reasons.

The driver side a pillar.

The pass. side a pillar.

View to drivers side kick/door.

View to pass. side kick/door.

I purchased the w3's and the fr88's and listened to them both. I thought the fr88's sound better at louder levels. I tried high passing them from 150 hertz up to 300 hertz with a 12 db per oct. slpoe, with a coustic 240se amp and was pretty happy with there overall sound.

If I went without a tweeter now I don't believe it would be too hard to integrate later if needed.

I started searching for 6-1/2" mid bass speakers and 2 kept coming up. The peerless sls's and dayton audio.

I ended up buying the peerless 830946.

I mounted them on a 1/2" mdf baffle in the stock speaker location. I was impressed with how they rattled my doors and mirrors, but not how they sound in the truck.

I went to bbp6 and modeled them in a ported enclosure, .3 c.f.c tuned to 75 hertz for 2 sls's. That's about the space I have to work within each door.

I want a sealed enclosure in the door, I want to eliminate as many possibilities of rattles as I can from the jump.

I built the above box out of 3/4" mdf and tried listening again, still not impressed. They sounded slow/muddy to me without allot of output.

I kept looking and saw these for ten dollars at P.E..

peerless sds

For some reason I associated long throw and slow, that's the reason for the sds's. I know it's not a mid bass, but it cost me $20.00 to see for myself if short stroke equals a quicker /tight speaker.

In my 93 cobra I achieved a great front stage, the xr-650's in small sealed kick pods would send a shock wave through you. This is why I tried the sds's.

This is the 93 cobra, jl300/2 on components 78 hertz and up, jl 500/1 on 8w3v2's 70 hertz and down.

During the 4-sa8 sub build

I found that the pass. side tweeter was blown, so I replaced it with a (jl) tr silk dome I had from some jl coax's. Then started playing with the phase.

When I reversed the phase on the drivers side tweeter the stage was outside the left a pillar and pretty much centered.

I'm happy with them, but more importantly, I realized for the first time door speakers can image very well. The xr-570's have very good sound to my ears.

Don't know why it took me so long to pull my head out and go try it for myself.

A week ago I built (2) 3/4" thick birch boxes, sealed @ .15 c.f.. I listened to the sls's and the sds's firing towards each other from in front of the door locations.

Day 1, I turned the crossover on the xr-570's up to ~ 250 hertz high pass and hooked the sds's/sls's to the 125.2 and listened for about 3 hours to both. I thought the sds's sounded better.

Day 2, I hooked the fr88's up to the 300/2 ~ 250 - 300 hertz high pass at the location in the above pics and listened to both mids again for about 3 hours, same material. The sls's sounded better to me, but the 88's were a bit hollow.

I will spend more time with the 88's on an amp that I can adjust the crossover's on both (on the pass. seat) on the fly to see if they sound more cohesive together.

So now I'm at a crossroad. Do I work with a full range/mid bass or go back to the door with a mid that plays low with authority and some tweeters.

My biggest problem is I have no way to hear anything but main stream car audio speakers unless I buy them.

Therefore I, like most, must rely on the experience of people like you to interpret what I think sounds good to me by the limited equipment I have access to.

Edited October 15, 2010 by cobra93

[///M5 2,833]

What was wrong with mounting the SLS IB? What crossover capability (slope, frequency etc) do you have? What does the back of the FR88 enclosure look like? Any idea on the air volume?

The gear you have will out do what you had...and by a lot, however, as a setup it will be WAY harder to aim, tune, and get working right. Understanding what you have for gear and what things are currently frustrating to you will surely help us point you in the right direction. Thank you for the summary btw.

[lithium 358]

Somehow this is the first I've seen this thread...and only read this page, but will follow now.

I think you guys are all battling something that no one has yet referenced. It is all installation. That being said, I'd like to understand how you aimed your 3's, what processing you are using to correct for the anomalies of the install, and more specifically at what frequencies they sound weird. If you haven't yet, playing some warble tones in different frequency bins will help you isolate those frequencies.

As with any speaker system having a single driver play as much of the frequency spectra as possible is a benefit, but that benefit can quickly degrade if you do not have them installed (read mounting, aiming, processing, deadening...) in the right way. From what I see/hear comment wise above I am sure this is the case.

As for the TG9, Scan comments that Adrian made above. I'd also put those comments in the same category. The 15m can be well worth the difference; however, the TG9 is a lot more forgiving and easier to play with so regularly it may be a better choice.

And yes, those SLS should have more on the bottom end, but they roll off so fast you will NOT be able to use them with a large format tweeter. Perhaps a big 2" tweet/mid, but not just a tweeter.

comepletely agree w/ you m5. But i should have said that i use to have problems with the 3inch on the dash. i'm working on a build log right now but basically i really didn't like staring at huge fugly pods on my dash.. could i have worked with the install to get it sounding better? sure, but i think im heading in a better direction now.

[cobra93 47]

What was wrong with mounting the SLS IB? What crossover capability (slope, frequency etc) do you have? What does the back of the FR88 enclosure look like? Any idea on the air volume?

The gear you have will out do what you had...and by a lot, however, as a setup it will be WAY harder to aim, tune, and get working right. Understanding what you have for gear and what things are currently frustrating to you will surely help us point you in the right direction. Thank you for the summary btw.

1) What was wrong with mounting the SLS IB? > First let me state that, "it's all in the install" , is one factor that has been pounded into my head since I've been on this site and I believe this to be 110% true.

In the past I have never liked the sound of a speaker IB in a door, they don't seem tight/controlled enough to me and I prefer to not be heard outside of the truck.

I also must state that I've probably not heard a properly prepare door either, such as what J-roadtatts has done to his doors.

I'm going to get hammered for this one, I just know it. I understand that quality sound deadening products used correctly will give better results than the products I've used.

I prepared my doors with peel-n-seal inside and out as well as the rest of the truck, followed by vent duct vibration dampening material (adhesive rubbery sponge closed cell foam) on the outer skin. I sealed the p-n-s with foil tape to stop any asphalt smell.

This actually worked better than I expected, but I still need to close 2 large openings on the inner panel. There are many holes that I can't do anything about such as the the ones for the door clips and those are ~2" x 2" and about 8 of them.

I had the cosmetic door panel off at first with the sls's mounted to an 8" x 8" x 1/2" mdf baffle bolted over the stock 5" x7" opening. When I moved my hand around the surface of the inner door skin I was amazed, not in a good way, at how much air was entering the cabin from the holes in the door.

The door and mirror shook like crazy. My thought was the sls's sound "crappy" and had no output because the back wave was canceling out the front due to all the leaks that I can't stop.

That's when I built the enclosures for them. Obviously, I was correct in my assumption.

I was quite impressed with the sls's in the .15 c.f. boxes, both in output and sound quality and they still had the ability to play to ~ 45 hertz with authority. I'd still like more/louder levels as long as they stay clean/accurate.

Using a sealed box in the door is very appealing due to it being the "easy" way to me. I don't know that I can sufficiently seal or deaden the doors to my goal of stopping vibration and cancellation.

2) What crossover capability (slope, frequency etc) do you have? > I have a jl 300/2 (150 x 2 @ 1.5 -4 ohms) for the fr88' with 12/24 db per octive available to me. I've not had a chance to play with these yet, hopefully tomorrow I can get a 300/2 in the pass. seat to better adjust them.

I've been high passing the 88' ~ 250 - 300 hertz in the truck, but I believe they will go lower than that. The first time I listened to the 88's in the truck I was using a coustic 240se with a 12 db per octive slope and had them as low as ~ 180 (if the markings on the amp are somewhat close) . They sound much more full and to my liking. I'll try with my 300/2 by them selves and see what happens.

As of now I have a sundown 125.2 on the sls's with a 12 db per octive slope (125 x 2 @ 4 ohms). I believe the sound best in the 45 - 250 hertz range. I'll have to set and mark these points on the crossover with a DMM to be sure this is close, I'm only guessing at the markings on the crossover at this point and using my ears.

3) What does the back of the FR88 enclosure look like? . They are mounted in 3" pvc end caps with bushings and stuffed with batting. when pushed together it's 19.25 c.i., pulled apart 38.5 c.i.

I will take a few hours tomorrow to listen to the 88's by themselves and with the sls's and post back.

I have not used warble tones before, I'll read up on them tonight and try them tomorrow.

Thanks for bringing your time, knowledge and experience to my system.

[cobra93 47]

Somehow this is the first I've seen this thread...and only read this page, but will follow now.

I think you guys are all battling something that no one has yet referenced. It is all installation. That being said, I'd like to understand how you aimed your 3's, what processing you are using to correct for the anomalies of the install, and more specifically at what frequencies they sound weird. If you haven't yet, playing some warble tones in different frequency bins will help you isolate those frequencies.

As with any speaker system having a single driver play as much of the frequency spectra as possible is a benefit, but that benefit can quickly degrade if you do not have them installed (read mounting, aiming, processing, deadening...) in the right way. From what I see/hear comment wise above I am sure this is the case.

As for the TG9, Scan comments that Adrian made above. I'd also put those comments in the same category. The 15m can be well worth the difference; however, the TG9 is a lot more forgiving and easier to play with so regularly it may be a better choice.

And yes, those SLS should have more on the bottom end, but they roll off so fast you will NOT be able to use them with a large format tweeter. Perhaps a big 2" tweet/mid, but not just a tweeter.

comepletely agree w/ you m5. But i should have said that i use to have problems with the 3inch on the dash. i'm working on a build log right now but basically i really didn't like staring at huge fugly pods on my dash.. could i have worked with the install to get it sounding better? sure, but i think im heading in a better direction now.

I'm glad to hear that you were able to "tame" your 3" full range speakers.

[cobra93 47]

Well, i spent about 5 hours listening today to the 88's and then added the sls's.

I'm discouraged.

I understand that this won't happen in a day, but I thought I'd do a little better with the imaging.

I was able to get 2 cd's to sound centered. Billy Joel greatest hits and Bob James and David Sanborn Double Vision with Al Jarreau on vocals.

Steely Dan usually sound great, but even his voice was from both speakers.

Everything else sounds like it's coming from both speakers. I only have balance control with this head unit.

The best I was able to achieve was aiming the 88's at each other and loosing the highs or at the dome light witch is 8"-9" to my right, 6"-7" above my right ear and about even depth wise front to back.

I tried them in the kicks, even tho I can't place them there, in front of the factory door speaker and pretty much everywhere else I could think of. The kitchen sink and fridge were next on my list, but my wires aren't long enough.

I even tried the right fr88 on the center of the dash so the path lengths were about even, no joy.

I assume reflections are causing this.

I kept all crossovers on a 12 db per octive slope.

The crossover points I wound up with were, fr88's high passed @ 200 hertz (drivers side reverse phase) and the sls's low passed @ 160 hertz in the .18 c.f. boxes on thefloor in front of the factory door locations(I did not play with the phase at all).

I had the sub/infrasonic filter close to 10hz. as they seemed to have no issues playing whatever I sent to them. I would like to add a second pair of sls's or switch to another 6-1/2" with more low end. It's seductive as we all know.

I was eying the exodus anarchy's a while back, but sandt38 suggested cdt's es-06+ or css sdx7 instead.

They blend decent at these points, but the 88's seem to need a little "more" in its lower frequencies.

The crossover points i'm giving are assuming .707 x the target voltage gives me the -3db point. Thanks Impious.

I used tones that downloaded from sandt38's sig.. Thanks Seth.

I measured these after I was done listening.

I have a test cd coming sometime net week with warble tones, We'll see if this helps me across the entire frequency spectrum.

I'm able to cut or boost the mid freq. at 700, 1,000 or 2,000 with my current head unit. It also allows me to choose a Q of 1.5 or 2.

I found that cutting ( -2) 2000 hz. with a Q of 1.5 helped to smooth some music and was not needed with others.

I'm able to cut or boost high freq. at 8,000 or 12,000 with a Q of 2.

I was boosting 12,000 on most music by +2 or +3.

I've done allot of reading on improving your sound stage and if I only got one thing from it, That is to get everything the best you can before adding sound processing.

I'm thinking if I switch to the eclipse head unit now I've just complicated things even more.

What would you recommend I do at this point?

Is it possible to achieve a center image without time alignment in my location?

I did have width, "mostly", with the 5" x 7"'s in the door, but not depth.

As I understand it the low/forward door location is "wider " than the a pillars are, due to the fact that you have to turn you head to see them, not just your eyes.

I await a nudge in the right direction. I won't have time to do anything tomorrow, I'll try again Tues..

Edited October 17, 2010 by cobra93

[///M5 2,833]

Trying to achieve something with the drivers you have and no processing power is going to be tough.

Both your enclosures seem small for the drivers you have, but I haven't modelled them to verify.

Are you still just trying to aim the FR's? That is step one. Play with the phase between them as well and keep the SLS and your sub off while you do this. Find the limits of where the drivers and crossover wise and keep them happy before doing the aiming. Don't do it at ridiculous levels either. After you have that nailed then do the SLS on their own, then start mixing together.

Be careful of what you call center and what you want for center. To truly steer it you will need independent L/R eq. As an aside, I don't like my center in the center of the car.

[cobra93 47]

Trying to achieve something with the drivers you have and no processing power is going to be tough.

Both your enclosures seem small for the drivers you have, but I haven't modelled them to verify.

Are you still just trying to aim the FR's? That is step one. Play with the phase between them as well and keep the SLS and your sub off while you do this. Find the limits of where the drivers and crossover wise and keep them happy before doing the aiming. Don't do it at ridiculous levels either. After you have that nailed then do the SLS on their own, then start mixing together.

Be careful of what you call center and what you want for center. To truly steer it you will need independent L/R eq. As an aside, I don't like my center in the center of the car.

I'm not using the sub at all while listening to the new speakers.

I didn't notice a big difference in switching the phase on the 88's, in any combination.

Allot of the 88/w3 installs I've seen are vented to the dash or a pillar. I'll try removing the pvc end cap leaving them mounted to the bushing and "nesting" them in a shirt/towel or something.

I'm using the end caps as an easy way to test/aim them. I don't believe these will be part of the final install. I will make glass dash/a pillar enclosures for them.

As for the sls's in too small of an enclosure, they sound tight, controlled and still have a great deal of output. I have the sub/infrasonic filter below 20 hertz, I may have to raise it some, but I don't think any of the music I listen to contains information below 30-35 hertz.

I did model the sls's with BBP6 and thought I'd be disappointed with the results, but I'm pretty happy with there sound.

I have a very hard time listening to the sls's by themselves or either mid I have for that matter. Without the higher frequency information present they're uninspiring.

Slightly off topic, the tweeter on the pass. 5"x7" is out again. I believe the 300/2 in the truck is the possible problem.

There is a "frequency sweep" being played through the front 5"x7"'s that happen with the truck running or not.

I pulled a second 300/2 from my other car and did all testing yesterday with this second amp. The "sweep" was no longer present.

The first couple of hours were spent with only the fr88's playing, while adjusting there crossover point/slope and aiming.

The crossover points/slopes I posted above were where they sound best, alone or together.

I am not looking for a 2 seater, it's my money, time and ears, so "sorry about your luck" passenger.

I would like "centered" to be in front of me or at least very close.

Maybe Tues. I'll put the eclipse in and see what some processing will do for me.

As for "steering" the front stage with a L/R eq., I read a very good thread on this topic that I'd like to try but can't until have a head unit with this ability.

As I understood it, you play tones across the entire freq. spectrum (1/3 oct.) one at a time and boost/cut evenly each one until it is "centered". This must be done more than once since your effecting the freq. around the center freq. as well.

I believe the thread was: "Help the sound stage ate my windshield".

I was doing some reading on Zaph's website, looking at tweeters last week. I ordered some last week.

I've never heard a large format tweeter before, I'm curious to see what this one will sound like.

They are the Dayton DC28F's.

[///M5 2,833]

5x7's what are they for?

The SLS and FR88 is ALL you should be running that is not your sub.

Midbasses will be confusing to listen to on their own, but you cannot make decisions on their capabilities by muddying them up with any other drivers.

I will add it is very hard to do this by getting out of the car, making a change and then listening again.

The phase change on the FR's should have made a significant difference. You are just changing one and not the other right?

The Dayton 28 is an okay tweeter, but it is only a $10 tweeter. I personally prefer to spend a bit more on mine. It also won't play nice with either the FR88 as ultra top end is not its thing and it won't play low enough to mix with the Peerless. The $5 ND20 would work better for your application....assuming you are using this for a 3 way since you cannot use it for a 2 way. I'll also add that for a 3way you will NEED processing outside of the amplifiers. It helps a crap ton with the 2 way even.

I would find it very weird to listen to a stage that was centered in my position in a car. The combination or aural and spatial cues wouldn't make me happy. That being said I don't want it centered in car either. Somewhere in between is my preference. You can have yours, but right in front of you will be most easily achieved if you move the right drivers a bit closer... Otherwise you are going to have too much processing to fix the stage which will then detract from the FR of the stereo.

[cobra93 47]

5x7's what are they for?

The SLS and FR88 is ALL you should be running that is not your sub.

Midbasses will be confusing to listen to on their own, but you cannot make decisions on their capabilities by muddying them up with any other drivers.

I will add it is very hard to do this by getting out of the car, making a change and then listening again.

The phase change on the FR's should have made a significant difference. You are just changing one and not the other right?

The Dayton 28 is an okay tweeter, but it is only a $10 tweeter. I personally prefer to spend a bit more on mine. It also won't play nice with either the FR88 as ultra top end is not its thing and it won't play low enough to mix with the Peerless. The $5 ND20 would work better for your application....assuming you are using this for a 3 way since you cannot use it for a 2 way. I'll also add that for a 3way you will NEED processing outside of the amplifiers. It helps a crap ton with the 2 way even.

I would find it very weird to listen to a stage that was centered in my position in a car. The combination or aural and spatial cues wouldn't make me happy. That being said I don't want it centered in car either. Somewhere in between is my preference. You can have yours, but right in front of you will be most easily achieved if you move the right drivers a bit closer... Otherwise you are going to have too much processing to fix the stage which will then detract from the FR of the stereo.

The system in my truck right now is jl 5x7's in the doors and an eclipse sub behind me, with #1 jl300/2 and sundown 2000D driving them.

I don't have any of the above on when listening to the 88's/sls's.

I am putting the amps in the pass. seat ( for the 88's/sls') to be able to adjust them easily ( #2 300/2 and 125.2). These amps are not part of the jl/eclipse system in the truck.

I can reach both 88's on the dash as well as the amps form the drivers seat to make any adjustments.

Once I'm able to get the 88's to sound and image well I'll remove the 5x7's from the door and mount the sls's in the door.

I don't want to go without a "backup" system until I've made some progress with the 88's and know it what I'm doing will be worth the effort.

I ordered the tweeters before you came into this thread and was considering a low crossed tweeter and the exodus anarchy's or another mid.

The Dayton tweeter got decent reviews and was only $10.00 so I thought it would help me with which direction I will wind up going with.

After yesterday's listening impressions, I believe the top end of the 88 is a little strained/ragged and will probably require a tweeter up top.

I know I can't fit a large format tweeter and the 88 on the dash at the same time.

Edited October 18, 2010 by cobra93

[///M5 2,833]

The FR88 can easily have a nice top end, but you have nothing in your system to tame any anomalies that exist. Perhaps this is why you stated strained, not at all what I'd describe it as and the raggedness is not so difficult to deal with. In fact I'd guarantee that dash reflections and your environment are a lot harsher than the natural frequency response of the driver in that range. Had you said it was muted perhaps I'd agree with adding something on top, but until you solve the woes that its current aiming/processing is guaranteeing you'll have it is hard to make that comment. Obviously a tweeter, including the DC28 won't have those concerns to eq out and will be easier to deal with for that matter. It may roll off harder to, but of course our ears are so insensitive to that it may not matter. The distortion on the DC28 is significantly worse than the Fountek as well. To my ears it would be a step down and you'd forego midbass by getting a driver that can play high enough to marry with it.

If you truly want to do a 3 way, then you should start planning your mounting locations and processing before buying any drivers.

If you haven't opened the DC28's I might send them back without even listening to them. PE probably would take them back even if opened, but you don't stand to gain anything...unless you are never buying a processor in which case a simple tweeter and paper coned mid would be your best choice.

[cobra93 47]

I have not received the DC 28's yet.

I'll put the eclipse av8533 in the truck Tues. and post back on the 88's after.

I'm not against an active 3-way front stage. That is the end goal if necessary, but learning a 2-way first for now.

I have the a-pillars/ dash/ sail panels and the doors as potential places for speakers.

If you truly want to do a 3 way, then you should start planning your mounting locations and processing before buying any drivers.

Would you recommend anything different for the locations I'm using now, for a 2-way?

It sounds to me that you believe I have a solid system that I need to work with now.

By this spring I should have the pioneer p99rs installed and have all the processing I need to achieve my future goals, a smile on my face every time I turn the system on..

Edited October 18, 2010 by cobra93

[///M5 2,833]

I like the FR88's on the dash, I like the SLS in the doors (experience with 8's, but can read plots on the 6.5's) and considering what you have for processing there are definitely things you can do to hugely improve it. I would also state that going 3 way in the long run will probably sound worse as it is much harder to setup properly. If you aren't savy with 2 ways I would never recommend a 3.

The 99rs is nice, but it is a hell of a lot of money for something which you may never use feature wise. Obviously if you "need" a 3 way front the story may change, but from what I have read so far that would be quite a leap. Perhaps you should start with an 880 that is used or something to nail down what you have and see if you need to go that far.

[cobra93 47]

Well, Tues. was a no go. Unexpected Dr. appointment, for my mom.

Today I went out and put the 88's on the dash wired up the 300/2 and ran some temporary power/ground wires for the eclipse AV8533.

I fired everything up and started adjusting.

Holy Crap!! It's like cheating.

It took about 1ms. of delay on the drivers side 88 to put the image in front and just to the right of me.

So I started to look for a place to mount the Friggin HUGE brain for this head unit, it's longer then the 300/2 or the sax 125.2 and almost as wide.

I found a good spot and started to remove the old HX-D10 and install the 8533.

I believe the wires are long enough to mount the brain in the house and still be able to drive around the block.

After everything was installed I put the 125.2 and the 300/2 in the pass. seat wire them up and started to listen again.

I had only the 88's playing and found aiming them at the dome light was the best spot so far.

I upped the crossover to ~220 hz. and 1ms. delay to the drivers side seems to be my sweet spot.

I'm surprised that the top end of the 88's seem smoother than with hx-d10.

I brought the sls's up to match the 88's and started to explore TA with all four speakers.

I also upped the crossover on the sls's to ~200hz. or so and raised the sub/infrasonic filter to ~ 50 hz..

It sounds pretty friggin amazing!

Right now the sls's are about 6"-8" from the door panel, the drivers side woofer face is almost even with the center of the steering wheel facing the opposite side of the truck.

As I played with the TA on the sls's it didn't seem to effect the sound much, if any, at all.

The stage is above the dash just below my eyes outside the base of the windshield, no longer in my face.

The width is just inside the a pillars at the moment. I will try aiming the 88's more on Friday and this weekend to improve the width if possible in these locations.

Please give my an educated guess on the following 2 questions.

I understand that there are allot of variables that will effect the outcome.

Do you think TA will have more of an effect once the sls's are mounted in the door, at the boundaries of the vehicle?

I assume width and depth are more an outcome of aiming then processing.

Would you agree or disagree?

Edited October 20, 2010 by cobra93

[///M5 2,833]

Good questions

T/A is never a solution, but a band aid. Proper installation is the first goal or at least should be. EQ & T/A can help in the positioning domain, but does nothing for the vertical which is why I am a proponent of you mounting the Fountek's on your dash

Width and Depth, should be an outcome of placement & aiming. ie, installation. Perhaps the reasoning behind the comments, 90% installation, 5% equipment, 5% beer now makes sense to you.

As for your midbass question. The first step is to get them as far from you as possible (read forward), then it is to get them as equal distant & equal angles from your ears as possible, and now make it the same distance as your mids. You can't electronically fix the angle, but T/A can help if the distances are off. It is a bandaid though and will never be as good as actual physical mounting.

Width & Depth are related to positioning of the drivers more than anything. Cars suck ass for this in general and here is where you have no choice but to compromise.

[cobra93 47]

Thanks for the response to my questions and guidance along the way, now it's all on me to pull it together.

I think I understand this statement, but perhaps it's the wording that has me a little puzzled.

As for your midbass question. The first step is to get them as far from you as possible (read forward), then it is to get them as equal distant & equal angles from your ears as possible, and now make it the same distance as your mids.

Are you stating to find the above location, then place the mids there?

I understand the equidistant/equal angle, it's the underlined part that I'm unsure of what you're referring to.

I'm assuming the mids, but perhaps the way you've worded it, it sounds as if you're referencing something else.

Thanks very much ///M5 !!!

I was looking back at J-raodtatts build log and the grills he used on his widebanders.

I believe you referred to his 89ex's as mid's , I think I understand the underlined portion of the quote now, my 88's > mids.

Thanks again ///M5 !

Edited October 22, 2010 by cobra93

[///M5 2,833]

I was being general in my response as a guide, not specific to your install.

In this case same distance means just same distance, not exact mounting locations. While that would be ideal I seriously doubt you can come up with a good way to get the SLS up on your dash too. You can infer from my vertical comments that you need to have the midrange up high which is more beneficial than putting them in the kicks with the midbass. Keep them up on the dash