Need to deaden doors, but I need your help

[slim142 9]

So after installing my Cs60CF, I could not believe how bad the woofers sound

It sounds as if they were distorting, and thats with all EQs off, no bass boost or anything.

So I talked to denim and we concluded it could be the doors. They are not deadened. I just replaced factory speakers and place the new ones (i know, i know, but i didnt think it was gonna sound this bad).

So I came to the conclusion that to enjoy my midbass and not have to lower the 125hz band to -3, I need to (just learned this) seal the doors.

Seriously, my midbass is dead cause I cant rise the volume or else the woofers will start to sound nasty, kinda distorted. Even with EQ on flat. I always have to lower 125hz to -3 to raise the volume.

Now, I thought about Second Skin Audio, but I just found out about another brand which seems to be really popular among the users in this forum, a brand called SDS.

Now, I have absolutely no knowledge about sound deadeners, the materials, brand/models etc

So, with that said, I know some of you are going to give me links to start reading (probably), but while I do some reading, I want to get recommendations on what I should do.

I have a Ford Expedition 2007. I think Im better off taking pictures of the doors rather than describing what they have (they have some kind of foam which I believe is used to protect from water, not sure)

So first thing, what brand/model should I be looking into for my doors? How much should I buy?

I just want to cover the holes. Not really looking to spend hundreds deadening the car as I do not know yet if I will be keeping my audio stuff in it.

All input is welcomed!

Edited October 26, 2010 by slim142

[sefugi 166]

Get with Don at http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi contact e-mail: don@sounddeadenershowdown.com

He will help you with whatever it is that you need and wil recommend what is need without overselling with what you don't need.

Good Luck!!

[ulrisa 26]

I actually sealed my doors with SDS CLD tiles and it is in my build log. Ulrisa's Build I would also recommend that you talk to Don, but there are some good pictures in there for reference. It's near the bottom of the first page. The best way to do it is to make panels that are removable out of fiberglass or something, in case you want to take it off later or a mechanic needs to get in there. In my case it didn't really matter because my dad is my mechanic and I don't plan on taking it off the doors lol.

[Rudeboy 152]

Pictures would help. I'm definitely a fan of fiberglass. This thread shows two different ways to seal doors and goes through a full door treatment.

[ElusiveKandyDC 0]

Are the Cs60CF amplified or running off the HU?

[slim142 9]

Ok SDS sounds like its the one Im gonna go with. But just wanted to ask, what happened to Second Skin Audio? Anything wrong with them?

And ulrisa! you are actually the reason why I wanted to "fix" my problem. I saw what you did (thanks for the pics) and realized maybe thats the reason why my midbass sounds horrible. And doesnt look hard either!

Just wanna ask you, did you do anything to the interior of the door? (inside, behind the speaker)

Elisive, the speaker is currently running off the HU

22watts rms, yeah I know they are begging for an amp, but could that also be the reason why the midbass sounds horrible?

[ElusiveKandyDC 0]

I notice you're using an 800prs... are you running the comps active?

[slim142 9]

I notice you're using an 800prs... are you running the comps active?

Nope

They're passive

HU->crossover->mids/highs

Edited October 27, 2010 by slim142

[ElusiveKandyDC 0]

I notice you're using an 800prs... are you running the comps active?

Nope

They're passive

HU->crossover->mids/highs

I personally think it plays a big role in why the midbass is distorting. I'm not claiming to be an expert on the subject but from what I understand... if the HU delivers an actual 22watts RMS (never researched what HU actual RMS is) then the passive crossovers will distribute power accordingly, say 17w to mids, 5w to tweets (just an example). Not to mention the debate which claims passive crossovers rob almost half the wattage (read directly from HAT site). Not to sure how efficient those mids are but seems as if they are severely lacking headroom. Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE advocate of sound deadening and I recommend it HIGHLY, but I think your biggest issue is power.

A suggestion would be powering the comps active. Take advantage of that awesome 800prs. Then you will be delivering 22w to the mids and 22w to the tweets. It may be enough of an improvement to skip buying an amp and go straight to the deadener.

[slim142 9]

I notice you're using an 800prs... are you running the comps active?

Nope

They're passive

HU->crossover->mids/highs

I personally think it plays a big role in why the midbass is distorting. I'm not claiming to be an expert on the subject but from what I understand... if the HU delivers an actual 22watts RMS (never researched what HU actual RMS is) then the passive crossovers will distribute power accordingly, say 17w to mids, 5w to tweets (just an example). Not to mention the debate which claims passive crossovers rob almost half the wattage (read directly from HAT site). Not to sure how efficient those mids are but seems as if they are severely lacking headroom. Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE advocate of sound deadening and I recommend it HIGHLY, but I think your biggest issue is power.

A suggestion would be powering the comps active. Take advantage of that awesome 800prs. Then you will be delivering 22w to the mids and 22w to the tweets. It may be enough of an improvement to skip buying an amp and go straight to the deadener.

You know, I also thought about that. These can handle 80watts RMS and they are not even getting half.

It kinda pisses me my factory 6x8 seemed to have better midbass. Oh well... will see if fixing the doors help enough to make me hold spending more money right now.

The mid/highs amp will come later tho

Edited October 28, 2010 by slim142

[Rudeboy 152]

It sounds like drastically under powering your speakers is the biggest problem right now. A distorted signal isn't going to be cleaned up by door treatment. I'd get an amp first.

[Duran 387]

Under powering isn't a problem

[ElusiveKandyDC 0]

Under powering isn't a problem

Hmmm...

You mean "under powering" doesnt lower headroom (which causes clipping/distortion)?

You mean to tell me after all these years of lugging around a heavy ass 80watt tube guitar amplifier just to obtain a clean, pure, unclipped guitar tone that I could of used a 15 watt amplifier equiped with sound deadener? Man, who woulda thunk....

[Rudeboy 152]

Under powering isn't a problem

Not for blowing the speakers, but for sounding terrible, definitely. It's a pretty common scenario: Upgrade HU and the stock speakers sound much better. Figured that was a win and upgrade the speakers and it sounds much worse. I'd be willing to be that the OP's car sounded better with the upgraded HU and stock speakers than it does now. He is asking the HU's internal amp to do something they can't - power his new speakers. He turns the volume way up to compensate and the speakers happily reproduced a distorted signal.

Treating the doors isn't going to help that situation enough to be the first or only thing he should do. Gotta match the speakers with the power they need.

[ulrisa 26]

Ok SDS sounds like its the one Im gonna go with. But just wanted to ask, what happened to Second Skin Audio? Anything wrong with them?

And ulrisa! you are actually the reason why I wanted to "fix" my problem. I saw what you did (thanks for the pics) and realized maybe thats the reason why my midbass sounds horrible. And doesnt look hard either!

Just wanna ask you, did you do anything to the interior of the door? (inside, behind the speaker)

Elisive, the speaker is currently running off the HU

22watts rms, yeah I know they are begging for an amp, but could that also be the reason why the midbass sounds horrible?

While the sealed doors really help, my speakers were being run active the whole time. Deadening will help a lot, but the amp is definitely something you want to get first. You could probably pick up a pretty cheap amp for just 80 watts rms x 2, then get some deadening when you have the money. You really need both an amp and deadening to get the max amount of midbass out of those speakers. Once you do that, those 6x8's are going to be a distant memory because your new speakers should blow them out of the water. Good luck, and I'm happy my build log helped you .

[slim142 9]

Dam! Just what I wanted to avoid! Spend money on an amp for the components grrrr!

Well, I guess I'll have to look into a really cheap amp or just keep the volume knob down

Is this a good option?

Seems like my best bet

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/store/products/Stetsom-TH2030-30w-x-2ch.html

30watts lol, does that even need 8gauge? how would I install that thing? lol

Edited October 28, 2010 by slim142

[ulrisa 26]

Dam! Just what I wanted to avoid! Spend money on an amp for the components grrrr!

Well, I guess I'll have to look into a really cheap amp or just keep the volume knob down

Is this a good option?

Seems like my best bet

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/store/products/Stetsom-TH2030-30w-x-2ch.html

30watts lol, does that even need 8gauge? how would I install that thing? lol

If you need something cheap try looking for some used amps. 30 watts is a little better, but I'm sure if you look around you could get a pretty decent amp for <$100.

[slim142 9]

Dam! Just what I wanted to avoid! Spend money on an amp for the components grrrr!

Well, I guess I'll have to look into a really cheap amp or just keep the volume knob down

Is this a good option?

Seems like my best bet

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/store/products/Stetsom-TH2030-30w-x-2ch.html

30watts lol, does that even need 8gauge? how would I install that thing? lol

If you need something cheap try looking for some used amps. 30 watts is a little better, but I'm sure if you look around you could get a pretty decent amp for <$100.

I like this one

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17518_Power+Acoustik+OVN2-600.html

But never had experience with Power Acoustik, I think they are overrated right?

My components are 80rms and I would still run them with the crossover just to be safe.

And for this, 8 gauge should be MORE than enough right?

Edited October 28, 2010 by slim142

[ulrisa 26]

Dam! Just what I wanted to avoid! Spend money on an amp for the components grrrr!

Well, I guess I'll have to look into a really cheap amp or just keep the volume knob down

Is this a good option?

Seems like my best bet

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/store/products/Stetsom-TH2030-30w-x-2ch.html

30watts lol, does that even need 8gauge? how would I install that thing? lol

If you need something cheap try looking for some used amps. 30 watts is a little better, but I'm sure if you look around you could get a pretty decent amp for <$100.

I like this one

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17518_Power+Acoustik+OVN2-600.html

But never had experience with Power Acoustik, I think they are overrated right?

My components are 80rms and I would still run them with the crossover just to be safe.

And for this, 8 gauge should be MORE than enough right?

I think that would be fine. 8 awg is plenty for such a small amp.

[Rudeboy 152]

Why not one of these? More than enough power bridged to run through your crossover or 4 channels if you want to run active.

[slim142 9]

I think that would be fine. 8 awg is plenty for such a small amp.

I could prob even do 10 gauge to save some money LOL

I think you can tell Im in saving mode thats why I cant spend much right now

Why not one of these? More than enough power bridged to run through your crossover or 4 channels if you want to run active.

Its almost double the price of what I posted. Thats why I didnt consider it.

[ulrisa 26]

I think that would be fine. 8 awg is plenty for such a small amp.

I could prob even do 10 gauge to save some money LOL

I think you can tell Im in saving mode thats why I cant spend much right now

Why not one of these? More than enough power bridged to run through your crossover or 4 channels if you want to run active.

Its almost double the price of what I posted. Thats why I didnt consider it.

Yeah, I could definitely tell you are in saving mode lol. I just did a couple calculations, and 10 awg would be ok, but for the cheapness of 8 awg it's a lot better. Just think, less voltage drop due to resistance of the wire. Plus you have to factor in the efficiency of that amp which is probably low. I think 8 awg on knukonceptz is less than a $1 a foot. That Boss amp is pretty damn nice though lol.

[ElusiveKandyDC 0]

Why not one of these? More than enough power bridged to run through your crossover or 4 channels if you want to run active.

I like the above suggestion as well. Killer find.

I can't see the Stetsom helping enough to justify the price and time to install. Keep in mind it delivers 20w @ 4ohms. So after spending $60 (say $70 shipped?) you're back where you started with less money and a 10lb paperwieght. For $35 more (thanks to Rudeboy's suggestion) you get MUCH more amp with more versatility and will make a massive, night and day difference from your current situation. Hands down the better choice.

[ElusiveKandyDC 0]

It sounds like drastically under powering your speakers is the biggest problem right now. A distorted signal isn't going to be cleaned up by door treatment. I'd get an amp first.

Also want to give props to Rudeboy (SDS).

Had a perfect opportunity to make a sale but instead responds with the above. Proves you don't have to be a shiesty salesman and blow smoke up people’s asses to run a successful business. I'll definitely be contacting you within the next week or so to place an order.

[slim142 9]

Yeah, I could definitely tell you are in saving mode lol. I just did a couple calculations, and 10 awg would be ok, but for the cheapness of 8 awg it's a lot better. Just think, less voltage drop due to resistance of the wire. Plus you have to factor in the efficiency of that amp which is probably low. I think 8 awg on knukonceptz is less than a $1 a foot. That Boss amp is pretty damn nice though lol.

Yeah I realized below 8 gauge might be pushing it a little too much

I like the above suggestion as well. Killer find.

I can't see the Stetsom helping enough to justify the price and time to install. Keep in mind it delivers 20w @ 4ohms. So after spending $60 (say $70 shipped?) you're back where you started with less money and a 10lb paperwieght. For $35 more (thanks to Rudeboy's suggestion) you get MUCH more amp with more versatility and will make a massive, night and day difference from your current situation. Hands down the better choice.

You are right, and after checking prices I also realized that the Stetson was not worth the $60 they are asking for. Much more bang for the buck offered in from other brands. I will consider the Boss Audio.

Also want to give props to Rudeboy (SDS).

Had a perfect opportunity to make a sale but instead responds with the above. Proves you don't have to be a shiesty salesman and blow smoke up people’s asses to run a successful business. I'll definitely be contacting you within the next week or so to place an order.

I noticed that it said SDS Don below his profile name which showed me that the guy behind the company was actually Don, and on top of that, he took his time to help me and explain me the problem was under powering when he could have easily keep on making me believe 90% of the problem comes from the doors to make a sale. Definitely shows the type of person he is and that I will be doing business with him when the time comes.