AA Carbon's

[splxtreme 8]

I just recently found out about these and I currently have DLS UP6i's in my 06 trailblazer. Would there be any advantage getting the AA Carbon's over the UP's? I would like a mid that does play better in the 50hz range. It might be just me or even the install, but I find the UP's to be a bit muddy when played loud. Would it be OK, to just swap the DLS's with the Carbon's? I have the doors deadened fairly well also Overall, my main goal is to have the mid dig a little deeper, and be a little cleaner when the volume is turned up. Thanks for any suggestions.

[Duran 387]

50 Hz is more of a subwoofer frequency vs. midwoofer

[splxtreme 8]

50 Hz is more of a subwoofer frequency vs. midwoofer

So if I cross the sub at 50, what am I suppose to cross the mid at? I suppose I could do a shallower slope on the mids. Also, has anyone listened to the UP's and the Carbon's? I would like something slightly better, without breaking the bank.

[Impious 1,476]

Why cross your subwoofer so low?

No 6.5" driver is going to do justice to a 50hz signal. They just don't have the displacement, and most of them are going to be at pretty high distortion levels playing at any realistic listening volume level down that low.

The Carbon's should have a significant increase in displacement over those DLS mids, so they should do better at the midbass. How well they'll work with the DLS crossovers depends on the DLS crossovers. Do you have any details on the crossovers themselves, such a xover frequency and slope and if they have any other built in features such as a zobel network, etc?

[splxtreme 8]

Why cross your subwoofer so low?

No 6.5" driver is going to do justice to a 50hz signal. They just don't have the displacement, and most of them are going to be at pretty high distortion levels playing at any realistic listening volume level down that low.

The Carbon's should have a significant increase in displacement over those DLS mids, so they should do better at the midbass. How well they'll work with the DLS crossovers depends on the DLS crossovers. Do you have any details on the crossovers themselves, such a xover frequency and slope and if they have any other built in features such as a zobel network, etc?

I was mentioning 50hz, because that is what some people have been telling me I guess. I'm realistically looking at having the sub crossed at 70 (XCON 12). I like a little more impact from the sub. Problem is, I don't know if the XCON is capable of running up to 70 hz. I had an ED 13AV2 and was told it would exceed 70, but based on an RTA, 63 is where it rolled off fast. I really want a system that is going to give me some hard hitting kick drums, even the tighter metal kicks. Also, here is the site for my mids http://www.dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_581

[ssh 924]

Why cross your subwoofer so low?

No 6.5" driver is going to do justice to a 50hz signal. They just don't have the displacement, and most of them are going to be at pretty high distortion levels playing at any realistic listening volume level down that low.

The Carbon's should have a significant increase in displacement over those DLS mids, so they should do better at the midbass. How well they'll work with the DLS crossovers depends on the DLS crossovers. Do you have any details on the crossovers themselves, such a xover frequency and slope and if they have any other built in features such as a zobel network, etc?

I was mentioning 50hz, because that is what some people have been telling me I guess. I'm realistically looking at having the sub crossed at 70 (XCON 12). I like a little more impact from the sub. Problem is, I don't know if the XCON is capable of running up to 70 hz. I had an ED 13AV2 and was told it would exceed 70, but based on an RTA, 63 is where it rolled off fast. I really want a system that is going to give me some hard hitting kick drums, even the tighter metal kicks. Also, here is the site for my mids http://www.dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_581

An xcon driver will play 70hz just fine

[Impious 1,476]

Why cross your subwoofer so low?

No 6.5" driver is going to do justice to a 50hz signal. They just don't have the displacement, and most of them are going to be at pretty high distortion levels playing at any realistic listening volume level down that low.

The Carbon's should have a significant increase in displacement over those DLS mids, so they should do better at the midbass. How well they'll work with the DLS crossovers depends on the DLS crossovers. Do you have any details on the crossovers themselves, such a xover frequency and slope and if they have any other built in features such as a zobel network, etc?

I was mentioning 50hz, because that is what some people have been telling me I guess. I'm realistically looking at having the sub crossed at 70 (XCON 12). I like a little more impact from the sub. Problem is, I don't know if the XCON is capable of running up to 70 hz. I had an ED 13AV2 and was told it would exceed 70, but based on an RTA, 63 is where it rolled off fast. I really want a system that is going to give me some hard hitting kick drums, even the tighter metal kicks. Also, here is the site for my mids http://www.dls.se/en...?produkt=en_581

Was the RTA in your vehicle?

Reason I ask is that you might have a vehicle-induced roll off around 63hz that is independent of the driver. You would have to RTA it both in and out of the vehicle to determine what affects your vehicle is contributing to the sound.

[splxtreme 8]

Why cross your subwoofer so low?

No 6.5" driver is going to do justice to a 50hz signal. They just don't have the displacement, and most of them are going to be at pretty high distortion levels playing at any realistic listening volume level down that low.

The Carbon's should have a significant increase in displacement over those DLS mids, so they should do better at the midbass. How well they'll work with the DLS crossovers depends on the DLS crossovers. Do you have any details on the crossovers themselves, such a xover frequency and slope and if they have any other built in features such as a zobel network, etc?

I was mentioning 50hz, because that is what some people have been telling me I guess. I'm realistically looking at having the sub crossed at 70 (XCON 12). I like a little more impact from the sub. Problem is, I don't know if the XCON is capable of running up to 70 hz. I had an ED 13AV2 and was told it would exceed 70, but based on an RTA, 63 is where it rolled off fast. I really want a system that is going to give me some hard hitting kick drums, even the tighter metal kicks. Also, here is the site for my mids http://www.dls.se/en...?produkt=en_581

Was the RTA in your vehicle?

Reason I ask is that you might have a vehicle-induced roll off around 63hz that is independent of the driver. You would have to RTA it both in and out of the vehicle to determine what affects your vehicle is contributing to the sound.

Yes, the RTA was in the vehicle and we tried the sub in my buddies Escalade and same outcome. We didn't test it outside, but we assumed it would show the same result. We had a DD 9512 to test in my vehicle and it did really well, but needed some eq'n in the low end.

[emh9009 199]

I have the AAs, they can play 50, but there really isn't much sound. Even if your sub is crossed over at 50 it will drown them out, so no real reason to do it that low. It's just risky having them move so much. They sound amazing on rock/metal, i love them.

[splxtreme 8]

I have the AAs, they can play 50, but there really isn't much sound. Even if your sub is crossed over at 50 it will drown them out, so no real reason to do it that low. It's just risky having them move so much. They sound amazing on rock/metal, i love them.

Would you happen to know the xmax of the AA's? i believe the UP's I have are 5mm.

[Duran 387]

I have the AAs, they can play 50, but there really isn't much sound. Even if your sub is crossed over at 50 it will drown them out, so no real reason to do it that low. It's just risky having them move so much. They sound amazing on rock/metal, i love them.

Would you happen to know the xmax of the AA's? i believe the UP's I have are 5mm.

~11mm

[ulrisa 26]

I would only recommend running the AA's crossed around 50 hz if your doors/pods/baffles are sealed really well. I actually do get a decent response out of them that low, but I ended up crossing them closer to 60 hz recently so I could get them a little louder without killing them. As mentioned above, for 50 hz a sub is going to work much better unless you have huge dedicated mid basses.

[splxtreme 8]

I would only recommend running the AA's crossed around 50 hz if your doors/pods/baffles are sealed really well. I actually do get a decent response out of them that low, but I ended up crossing them closer to 60 hz recently so I could get them a little louder without killing them. As mentioned above, for 50 hz a sub is going to work much better unless you have huge dedicated mid basses.

I see your running XCON's ported, how do they sound with rock or metal?

[///M5 2,833]

Why cross your subwoofer so low?

No 6.5" driver is going to do justice to a 50hz signal. They just don't have the displacement, and most of them are going to be at pretty high distortion levels playing at any realistic listening volume level down that low.

The Carbon's should have a significant increase in displacement over those DLS mids, so they should do better at the midbass. How well they'll work with the DLS crossovers depends on the DLS crossovers. Do you have any details on the crossovers themselves, such a xover frequency and slope and if they have any other built in features such as a zobel network, etc?

I was mentioning 50hz, because that is what some people have been telling me I guess. I'm realistically looking at having the sub crossed at 70 (XCON 12). I like a little more impact from the sub. Problem is, I don't know if the XCON is capable of running up to 70 hz. I had an ED 13AV2 and was told it would exceed 70, but based on an RTA, 63 is where it rolled off fast. I really want a system that is going to give me some hard hitting kick drums, even the tighter metal kicks. Also, here is the site for my mids http://www.dls.se/en...?produkt=en_581

Was the RTA in your vehicle?

Reason I ask is that you might have a vehicle-induced roll off around 63hz that is independent of the driver. You would have to RTA it both in and out of the vehicle to determine what affects your vehicle is contributing to the sound.

Yes, the RTA was in the vehicle and we tried the sub in my buddies Escalade and same outcome. We didn't test it outside, but we assumed it would show the same result. We had a DD 9512 to test in my vehicle and it did really well, but needed some eq'n in the low end.

Hitting a wall like that means one of two things. An electrical filter or a mechanical filter. Sure you didn't have a LP on? If not, there was some hell of a mechanical one.

Did you try multiple enclosures? There is a way around it...

I surely wouldn't use the AA's with the crossovers you have, but if you were to swap out those mids and run active fine. At that point though I'd change the tweeters as well.

[splxtreme 8]

Why cross your subwoofer so low?

No 6.5" driver is going to do justice to a 50hz signal. They just don't have the displacement, and most of them are going to be at pretty high distortion levels playing at any realistic listening volume level down that low.

The Carbon's should have a significant increase in displacement over those DLS mids, so they should do better at the midbass. How well they'll work with the DLS crossovers depends on the DLS crossovers. Do you have any details on the crossovers themselves, such a xover frequency and slope and if they have any other built in features such as a zobel network, etc?

I was mentioning 50hz, because that is what some people have been telling me I guess. I'm realistically looking at having the sub crossed at 70 (XCON 12). I like a little more impact from the sub. Problem is, I don't know if the XCON is capable of running up to 70 hz. I had an ED 13AV2 and was told it would exceed 70, but based on an RTA, 63 is where it rolled off fast. I really want a system that is going to give me some hard hitting kick drums, even the tighter metal kicks. Also, here is the site for my mids http://www.dls.se/en...?produkt=en_581

Was the RTA in your vehicle?

Reason I ask is that you might have a vehicle-induced roll off around 63hz that is independent of the driver. You would have to RTA it both in and out of the vehicle to determine what affects your vehicle is contributing to the sound.

Yes, the RTA was in the vehicle and we tried the sub in my buddies Escalade and same outcome. We didn't test it outside, but we assumed it would show the same result. We had a DD 9512 to test in my vehicle and it did really well, but needed some eq'n in the low end.

Hitting a wall like that means one of two things. An electrical filter or a mechanical filter. Sure you didn't have a LP on? If not, there was some hell of a mechanical one.

Did you try multiple enclosures? There is a way around it...

I surely wouldn't use the AA's with the crossovers you have, but if you were to swap out those mids and run active fine. At that point though I'd change the tweeters as well.

yep, tried different enclosures too. I did talk to someone at Elemental and they said the sub wasn't designed to go much higher than that. The inductance was fairly high. He didn't have an exact number, but he was assuming it was higher than 5mh.

If I did get the AA's, I'd probably run them between 60 and 70, depending on how the XCON is going to perform.

[ulrisa 26]

I would only recommend running the AA's crossed around 50 hz if your doors/pods/baffles are sealed really well. I actually do get a decent response out of them that low, but I ended up crossing them closer to 60 hz recently so I could get them a little louder without killing them. As mentioned above, for 50 hz a sub is going to work much better unless you have huge dedicated mid basses.

I see your running XCON's ported, how do they sound with rock or metal?

Do you like having your subs punch you in the chest? Lol, they are unbelievable on rock and metal. It depends on the song though, some songs are ridiculously awesome while others are lacking because my system isn't really focused on rock. I find that a lot of rock songs do not have the lower frequencies recorded loud enough, but that might just be the ones I listen to. I think if you were heading in that route you'd probably want a slightly higher tuning like 33-35 than what I have. This will probably help on rock in most cases, though a lot of it has to do with the dynamics of a particular vehicle. I hope you enjoy your XCON!

[ssh 924]

I would only recommend running the AA's crossed around 50 hz if your doors/pods/baffles are sealed really well. I actually do get a decent response out of them that low, but I ended up crossing them closer to 60 hz recently so I could get them a little louder without killing them. As mentioned above, for 50 hz a sub is going to work much better unless you have huge dedicated mid basses.

I see your running XCON's ported, how do they sound with rock or metal?

Do you like having your subs punch you in the chest? Lol, they are unbelievable on rock and metal. It depends on the song though, some songs are ridiculously awesome while others are lacking because my system isn't really focused on rock. I find that a lot of rock songs do not have the lower frequencies recorded loud enough, but that might just be the ones I listen to. I think if you were heading in that route you'd probably want a slightly higher tuning like 33-35 than what I have. This will probably help on rock in most cases, though a lot of it has to do with the dynamics of a particular vehicle. I hope you enjoy your XCON!

Agreed. Setting my amp gains to most output before audible clipping for dubstep and rap, then playing metallica I have to bump up the bass level on my deck from 0 to 2 or 3

[splxtreme 8]

Do you like having your subs punch you in the chest? Lol, they are unbelievable on rock and metal. It depends on the song though, some songs are ridiculously awesome while others are lacking because my system isn't really focused on rock. I find that a lot of rock songs do not have the lower frequencies recorded loud enough, but that might just be the ones I listen to. I think if you were heading in that route you'd probably want a slightly higher tuning like 33-35 than what I have. This will probably help on rock in most cases, though a lot of it has to do with the dynamics of a particular vehicle. I hope you enjoy your XCON!

Agreed. Setting my amp gains to most output before audible clipping for dubstep and rap, then playing metallica I have to bump up the bass level on my deck from 0 to 2 or 3

Awesome! I do like the punch in the chest I plan on running the XCON sealed though, so maybe that will help. I really appreciate the help on here. I'm looking at getting this going after the holidays, so I'll post back when I get it all done. Thanks again.

[emh9009 199]

Why cross your subwoofer so low?

No 6.5" driver is going to do justice to a 50hz signal. They just don't have the displacement, and most of them are going to be at pretty high distortion levels playing at any realistic listening volume level down that low.

The Carbon's should have a significant increase in displacement over those DLS mids, so they should do better at the midbass. How well they'll work with the DLS crossovers depends on the DLS crossovers. Do you have any details on the crossovers themselves, such a xover frequency and slope and if they have any other built in features such as a zobel network, etc?

I was mentioning 50hz, because that is what some people have been telling me I guess. I'm realistically looking at having the sub crossed at 70 (XCON 12). I like a little more impact from the sub. Problem is, I don't know if the XCON is capable of running up to 70 hz. I had an ED 13AV2 and was told it would exceed 70, but based on an RTA, 63 is where it rolled off fast. I really want a system that is going to give me some hard hitting kick drums, even the tighter metal kicks. Also, here is the site for my mids http://www.dls.se/en...?produkt=en_581

Was the RTA in your vehicle?

Reason I ask is that you might have a vehicle-induced roll off around 63hz that is independent of the driver. You would have to RTA it both in and out of the vehicle to determine what affects your vehicle is contributing to the sound.

Yes, the RTA was in the vehicle and we tried the sub in my buddies Escalade and same outcome. We didn't test it outside, but we assumed it would show the same result. We had a DD 9512 to test in my vehicle and it did really well, but needed some eq'n in the low end.

Hitting a wall like that means one of two things. An electrical filter or a mechanical filter. Sure you didn't have a LP on? If not, there was some hell of a mechanical one.

Did you try multiple enclosures? There is a way around it...

I surely wouldn't use the AA's with the crossovers you have, but if you were to swap out those mids and run active fine. At that point though I'd change the tweeters as well.

yep, tried different enclosures too. I did talk to someone at Elemental and they said the sub wasn't designed to go much higher than that. The inductance was fairly high. He didn't have an exact number, but he was assuming it was higher than 5mh.

If I did get the AA's, I'd probably run them between 60 and 70, depending on how the XCON is going to perform.

Predicting what you're going to cross them over at isn't going to do much, that will probably change once you get it all installed. Every install is going to have different limits, and different settings that sound good. But i do love my Carbons, i say give them a try, if you're really looking and needing something new.