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MichiganBasshead

4 channel setup. HELP!

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I recently purchased 4 Crescendo  6.5 UN speakers and 2 FT1's. I also bought the Skar 125.4 (not gonna wait all year for Crescendo amps). I got the crossovers for the tweets. I have no idea what kind of crossovers to get for the 6.5's or if I have to. I've never done a 4 channel set up so any help or tips would be awesome! Please dont make smart a$$ comments. I'm new, no help othet than YouTube and I would like to be able to do all of my own work.

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There is no crossover that will make that combo sound good.  Even with a $300 processor you are going to have huge uncorrectible gaps in the frequency response.  

To get this to work you need a real tweeter.  The ft1 wont cut it.

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I've seen that you and a few other's have said that. All of them I've heard in person sound amazing so that confuses me. Nonetheless I was wanting help with how to do the install. I was hoping to get some info in that area because for some reason I can't find anything.

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Your idea of amazing has a really low level of entry...

You are going to need one heck of a processor to get anything out of those.  FT1's have no use in ANY install.  

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Mids around 150hz (HPF) - 5000hz (LPF)

Tweeters 5000hz (HPF)

You wouldnt want to run those mids that high and I didnt care for FT1s at all. If you cross your mids lower then you will have a gap in your frequencies between your mids and tweeters. Also with runing your mids so high you will have another gap between your subs and mids. Something i wouldnt recommend at all unless its an spl rig.

 

I think what sounded awesome to you was the fact you could hear the music over the bass, not necessarily the supertweeters themselves but I could be wrong.

Edited by jcarter1885
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3 hours ago, MichiganBasshead said:

I've seen that you and a few other's have said that. All of them I've heard in person sound amazing so that confuses me. Nonetheless I was wanting help with how to do the install. I was hoping to get some info in that area because for some reason I can't find anything.

What may be happening is that the frequencies being produced, may sound decent.  But, you might not be noticing the frequencies that are being missed because of the gap in the frequency response.

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And the wicked anomalies in the frequency response.  Sugar pill of acoustics is volume but there are such better ways to sound "good"

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Listening to electronic music or rap you probably think they sound fine, play any music with "substance" you will notice a HUGE gap in frequencies.

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So if i sell or trade these off what so you guys recommend. All I really listen to is bass boosted and rap songs. I rarely listen to anything else.

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What does it need to blend with?

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The UN's are also a problem.  You need a midbass with them.  Balancing a pair of X15's with your music tastes ought to be easy enough though.

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A nice pair of dome tweeters will do the job, no need for four mids either. I run a 15" and only have one pair of mids and one pair of tweeters and they keep up well. No rear fill either, means i don't have speakers in rear doors or my rear deck. The way my rear deck jumps around I wouldnt put speakers back there anyway.

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///M5 I don't know how many times I've asked for help on here and the only thing you do is come up with something negative to say about whatever it may be and provide absolutely no help to what I  asked help for. I'm all set on your type of "help". Thanks.

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Brandon, help is much easier when it is asked at a time that help can be given.  Perhaps an analogy would be helpful.  Being you are from Michigan I will assume you are somewhat of a car guy.  Here is the question I heard asked.

Let's say you own a 1970 Chevelle with a 327 V8.  You go to the track and someone gives you a ride in their 1970 Chevelle with a 454.  The 454 Chevelle rips and gets you super excited.  Instead of asking how to make your Chevelle fast, you ask the guy what he is running for an intake and carburetor.  The guy with the 454 car tells you he is running a Holley Strip Dominator intake manifold and a 950cfm dominator carb.  You run off and buy the same intake.  Your next step is to install it and tune it so you go on a car forum and ask.

Of course the response on the car forum is, wtf??  You bought a big block intake and carb for your small block.  This won't work so they don't respond nicely.  You take it personally and react they aren't helping.  This is exactly the situation we have here.  The FT1 is a terrible tweeter, the UN's are ridiculously short changed in their frequency response and don't at lend well to a standard car installation.  Making them work together and sound good is not possible.

You can verify this a bit by yourself.  The Fs of  the FT1 is 2800Hz (hard to read their complete lack of specs which in the first place is a no go for buying anything by the way).  Normally this would mean for a safe and easy crossover you would cross it over at 2.5x Fs or 7000Hz.  Take your phone, download Funcgen and then play a 7000Hz, 10000Hz and 14000Hz note.  Realize that this is what that tweeter will play "musically" and how small of a range of music it is.  Then play notes at 1200Hz (where my tweeters are crossed at) and realize how much of the frequency range you are short suiting yourself with.

I know my "help" hurts since you already spent money, but it is cheaper to fix now than later.

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The mid drivers I have no problems with. Depending on installation, should be able to play with crossover settings to make things work for your application.

No as far as tweeters go, I'm with Sean,  You can do MUCH better with than what you have. I couldn't actually sit and listen to the ones I've heard in the past. 

 

Good Luck

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31 minutes ago, Randal Johnson said:

The mid drivers I have no problems with. Depending on installation, should be able to play with crossover settings to make things work for your application.

Randal, you do realize that below 250Hz or so they are completely unable to do anything without a ported enclosure, right?

IMO, that is not capable of blending with ANY sub setup that makes sense in a car.

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Yes sir, I understand.  Maybe he can work with them fudging numbers to make something work since he has them. Worth a try ???

My main thing with the post was on them screaming tweeters.

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The fundamental frequency of the male voice is below 180Hz.  He listens to rap.  Sure there is still a ton of harmonic information even above 2kHz, I wouldn't want my music to sound loud but like it is playing over a telephone.  FYI, phones normally filter things from about 300-3600Hz.

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For his needs the gap to give up is the area ABOVE the voices.  That would fit his music listening desires the most.  Either way even with a driver that did do that the super tweeter is harsh and can't mate well anyways.  Has WAY more sensitivity than needed anyways since the rest of the front stage will still be much lower in level.

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On 7/4/2016 at 9:31 AM, ///M5 said:

There is no crossover that will make that combo sound good.  Even with a $300 processor you are going to have huge uncorrectible gaps in the frequency response.  

To get this to work you need a real tweeter.  The ft1 wont cut it.

Omg just stop complaining about the ft1 tweeter, just try to help people out, or not. Maybe give productive criticism a try.

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Perhaps an analogy would help.

The FT1 mated with the UN is like building an automatic 6 speed transmission and leaving out gears 2,3,4,5.  There is NO WAY to program the computer that controls the transmission to make it work well.  Actually more like leaving out 1,2,4,5 but that makes it harder to understand the analogy.  I would be glad to be constructive, but there is no way to make that setup sound even listenable unless you are partly deaf.

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Posted (edited)
On 11/28/2018 at 7:59 PM, ///M5 said:

Perhaps an analogy would help.

The FT1 mated with the UN is like building an automatic 6 speed transmission and leaving out gears 2,3,4,5.  There is NO WAY to program the computer that controls the transmission to make it work well.  Actually more like leaving out 1,2,4,5 but that makes it harder to understand the analogy.  I would be glad to be constructive, but there is no way to make that setup sound even listenable unless you are partly deaf.

Hey bud you did a fine job with those analogies, I've read this entire thread and I have some input.

I believe what the OP was saying was that if you had put the same energy into finely articulating exactly what WOULD work instead of WHY it wont work, it would be infinitely more helpful.

Hopefully you dont take that the wrong way, because I have some of the exact same issues and I hope you can help me and it seems you really know what you're talking about.

It's been incredibly difficult navigating advice and researched info because everyone has different goals and expectations. One of the BIGGEST miscommunications I hear is entry-level people asking about what would sound good, in general, and people responding with either what sounds good playing THEIR type of music or what sounds good to the experienced critical ear of an SQ audiophile.

I'll wrap this up man cuz I really need some advice. This is my first build and I'm trying to go all out and research every detail and shoot for the best sounding loud build I can. Like the OP I listen to almost exclusively heavy bass rap. I also have an SA-12 sub stage heavily powered with an Orion HCCA D2400 competition amp that will give it 1200 rms. Ive found out that SA-12 will most likely need to be crossed at ~80-90Hz. I'm definitely shooting for loud and low, and need mids that can pick up ~100Hz like a champ. Thing is I'd like to have the front stage LOUD enough to keep up with the sub while also playing as clear and clean as possible. Im definitely making LOUD a priority, doesnt have to be competition hear it from a mile away loud, but LOUD bro.... I've found that having an SQ/SPL setup is no easy task. I was also looking into the Crescendo UN65s and was almost on the verge of getting them until I seen some of the things you said. Now I'm reconsidering.

 

So in short, can you recommend a different midrange speaker(s) or front stage that will pair nicely with my sub stage? 

One other thing I'd like to keep it to a 2way front stage (my front amp is ppi 900.4), but if it's a huge leap towards achieving my goals I can dive into a 3-way front stage although I'd really like to avoid a 3way stage if I can nicely approximate my goals with a 2way. This build doesnt have to be an absolute homerun as long as it can sound good and loud and clear to get me started. FYI I plan on treating the doors, sealing everything and focusing heavily on bomb-proofing the front doors.

Sorry for writing and essay man but I'm really trying to get all this info out and get some real, relevant effective advice.

 

Thanks in advance

Edited by Maxmil982

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Drivers with a pro audio lean do not work in a 2 way.  Period.  Zero exceptions.  Efficiency and wide frequency response do not go hand in hand.

Would be better to make a thread than to ask in a thread from 16, but kudos to you for searching first instead of just asking the same question that gets asked over and over again...all because of some misinformation elsewhere in the mobile audio world.

That being said, first step is to understand your goals and to reset them.  There is no 2 way that will play to 100hz at the level your SA-12 can.  Not even close.  Of course if you had that as a set you probably wouldn't love it anyways.  Next step is to understand what you have for processing, background and what all you are contemplating to help the overall installation.  Experience you have with anything and like/dislike would also help.  

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