Buying a meter

[shizzzon 461]

hey ///M5, were you actually going to go there and see for yourself or just goin to the city?

[///M5 2,833]

I really, really doubt it is worth my time.

[shizzzon 461]

haha, well, i guess we'll just leave it at that until i get it in, build a test box then give my review of it.

[Acidburn 10]

this thread made me lol.

Using any research conducted on CA.com as reliable & scientific is also a lol.

I'm in with Sean here. Hell, he even stated why their "theory" doesn't work.

add my agreement to this

[Canaan 0]

I don't get why people can't see that this meter can work. I mean damit, what the hell do you think the TL does?

Pressure wave in, converted to electrical signal, output to computer, run input through equations.

Thats it, plain and simple.

Input > Compute > Output!!!!!

The weak link is your computer, or DMM in this case. That is why TL's come w/ a K-factor, so you the TL program has a reference to use in calculations. The TL is just literally a pressure sensor. IIRC, it records pressure in Pa and runs that through an equation...most likely an equation similar to:

Lp = 20log P/Po

EVERY meter/mic in the world (on its most basket level) works like this. Differences will arise based on weighting and calibrations, but all in all they are going to be similar.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Canaan

[JimJ 11]

Input > Compute > Output!!!!!

But where is this meter getting its input from? You even said it in your post, the TL is a pressure sensor. That's different than trying to extrapolate an SPL result from a voltage reading...

Just going by the voltage reading is telling nothing that relates to SPL...

[Canaan 0]

Input > Compute > Output!!!!!

But where is this meter getting its input from? You even said it in your post, the TL is a pressure sensor. That's different than trying to extrapolate an SPL result from a voltage reading...

Just going by the voltage reading is telling nothing that relates to SPL...

The meter itself converts the pressure wave to a electrical signal. Pretty much the opposite of what a speaker does.

That output voltage is fed to your computer where it goes through the program's calculations. Your specific meter is calibrated based on its output voltage at a given SPL.

So, say my TL has a K-factor of 177 and yours has a K-factor of 178.

Those #'s are used by the program to calculate the voltage your sensor should produce at a given SPL.

EDIT:

Think 'inner ear'.

Mechanical energy converted to nerve impulses.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Canaan

[jonbearsmt 919]

have you seen it??? its a black boc with a mono RCA coming from it with two aligator clips...... and the metel is side seems to be just as strage as mexican jumping beans.

[shizzzon 461]

i'm not into the technical debate here but you gotta remember that i am not going to be using this sensor with a DMM. I'm hooking it directly up to my oscilloscope that has a Db read out on it already.

There's a reason why the o-scope came with one..., to read Dbs. He told me that is the best way to use the sensor since you don't have to look at the chart all the time to determine spl.

Oh, and i am replying to say that according to feedbacks from buyers in the USA, i should be receiving my sensor in sometime next week.

I won't be able to immediately start testing it because i am starting to sound deaden in the area where the box will be. If i get done it time then ya, i'll test ASAP.

[///M5 2,833]

I don't get why people can't see that this meter can work. I mean damit, what the hell do you think the TL does?

Pressure wave in, converted to electrical signal, output to computer, run input through equations.

Thats it, plain and simple.

Input > Compute > Output!!!!!

The weak link is your computer, or DMM in this case. That is why TL's come w/ a K-factor, so you the TL program has a reference to use in calculations. The TL is just literally a pressure sensor. IIRC, it records pressure in Pa and runs that through an equation...most likely an equation similar to:

Lp = 20log P/Po

EVERY meter/mic in the world (on its most basket level) works like this. Differences will arise based on weighting and calibrations, but all in all they are going to be similar.

You are forgetting about the fundamentally most important piece here, the pressure transducer. Not trivial to get one accurate enough to do what this system supposedly does and in fact, to get there the transducer would have to cost 10x what the system alone costs. This is exactly why it won't work, the DMM isn't the weak link the transducer is.

[///M5 2,833]

Well it doesn't say shit about the technology therefore it is a joke. Tell me what it is: a pressure transducer, an electret mic, or whatever the hell.

The real joke is they say they compare with B&K. My friggin' ass, that comment alone makes it obvious that the thing is a scam. A B&K analyzer and microphone to measure 185dB would cost on the order of $30,000+ and would easily be a couple orders of magnitude more accurate.

Note this post...we still don't know what sort of transducer that it is and fundamentally until then I would suggest that it is a completely useless piece of crap.

[loudcav 1]

I know someone who has that meter its fairly close to the TL if your lookin to talk to someone who has one hit up 18inchjeepin

[mrray13 30]

I know someone who has that meter its fairly close to the TL if your lookin to talk to someone who has one hit up 18inchjeepin

the guy above you thinks the TL is a joke and for good reason, lol. but at least the TL's technology is out there, in the open. this new little meter is like a previous post mentioned, mexican jumping beans.

so, soundwaves flaps the metal inside the box converting it to electronic signals, in it's most basic form, yes? if that's the case, wouldn't it be suspectible to everything a thin piece of metal is susectible too? heat? cold? expansion? contraction?

just some random thoughts from an uneducated old guy.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[mrray13 30]

wow, i can't spell. and i'm not going to edit...to much drunk now.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[shizzzon 461]

i asked him that type of question. Whether the read out would change based on sea level, etc...

He said meters, not just his but others such as the TL are not affected by sea level, etc... it is the stereo equipment that is affected and the reason for a change in Db output.

[shizzzon 461]

Just got the meter in today, Yippie!!

You guys gotta see their client list!

Your mouth will drop.

[shizzzon 461]

was making sure it wasn't copyrighted. A lot of documents on this disc it came with are copyrighted, ok here is list-

HYPERDYNAMICS TECHNOLOGY CLIENT LIST:

Kenwood Superwoofer KFC-XW1300DVC

U.S. Department of Defence / Pentagon /D.A.R.P.A.

Alpine ddd + Linear Drive

Resonant Engineering

Harmon International, J.B.L. Incorporated

S.A.I.C. Science Applications International Corporation

Bruel & Kjaer

Audiobahn Incorporated

2004 C.E.S. Innovation Winner, Orion H2 XTR Pro Woofer

2003 C.E.S. Best of Show: Car Sound and Performance, J.B.L.

2002, 2001, 2000 Worlds Loudest Car Stereo Champion, Mr. Jim Jean

1996, 1993-91, 1988-86, 1983 Worlds Loudest Car Stereo Champions

Morel

Image Dynamics

Directed Electronics COMP-X, Team BS 2002, 177.7 db

Endevco

Precision Power DCX154

Soundstream DV10 Davinci Woofer

J.B.L. Professional Neodymium Dual Gap Speaker

www.JBL.com/car/products/GTi/GTi_tech.ASP

Patents:

5,119,431

5,449,261

5,561,717

5,701,358

5,748,760

5,828,767

6,768,806 and 14 more in application

Sony SA-WD200 Dual Gap Speaker

Pioneer International

Cerwin Vega

Alumapro

Seems like a lot of companies like their equipment.

Edited March 15, 2008 by shizzzon

[jonbearsmt 919]

sundown fi aa ssa and such are not on there??? ha

when are you gonna test it!

[shizzzon 461]

either tomorrow or sometime next week.

The temp is suppose to be hot enough to let me work throughout the day.

I'm gonna test it with just a box i got then when it starts to get warmer, i'm gonna build a test box and use it for the reason why i bought it, so i know what way i'm facing everything and exactly what setup i'm going with.

[jonbearsmt 919]

either tomorrow or sometime next week.

The temp is suppose to be hot enough to let me work throughout the day.

I'm gonna test it with just a box i got then when it starts to get warmer, i'm gonna build a test box and use it for the reason why i bought it, so i know what way i'm facing everything and exactly what setup i'm going with.

if it seems to work im going to buy one.

[///M5 2,833]

was making sure it wasn't copyrighted. A lot of documents on this disc it came with are copyrighted, ok here is list-

HYPERDYNAMICS TECHNOLOGY CLIENT LIST:

Kenwood Superwoofer KFC-XW1300DVC

U.S. Department of Defence / Pentagon /D.A.R.P.A.

Alpine ddd + Linear Drive

Resonant Engineering

Harmon International, J.B.L. Incorporated

S.A.I.C. Science Applications International Corporation

Bruel & Kjaer

Audiobahn Incorporated

2004 C.E.S. Innovation Winner, Orion H2 XTR Pro Woofer

2003 C.E.S. Best of Show: Car Sound and Performance, J.B.L.

2002, 2001, 2000 Worlds Loudest Car Stereo Champion, Mr. Jim Jean

1996, 1993-91, 1988-86, 1983 Worlds Loudest Car Stereo Champions

Morel

Image Dynamics

Directed Electronics COMP-X, Team BS 2002, 177.7 db

Endevco

Precision Power DCX154

Soundstream DV10 Davinci Woofer

J.B.L. Professional Neodymium Dual Gap Speaker

www.JBL.com/car/products/GTi/GTi_tech.ASP

Patents:

5,119,431

5,449,261

5,561,717

5,701,358

5,748,760

5,828,767

6,768,806 and 14 more in application

Sony SA-WD200 Dual Gap Speaker

Pioneer International

Cerwin Vega

Alumapro

Seems like a lot of companies like their equipment.

Customer lists are funny that way, just because people buy them does not mean they like them.

[Godsmack 360]

Not to mention DOD goes with the lowest bidder to do the job.

You do the math.

J

[shizzzon 461]

i'm bout to go to bed so no replyin to this topic til the next day or 2(no i'm not sleepin that long, hehe) but was foolin around with my meter today!!!

I hooked it up to my oscope to read live Dbs measurements but my oscope doesnt read them like i was thinkin so i set the o-scope up to read in millivolts like it suppose to and here is what i did-

I didn't feel like draggin all this audio equipment to my car so i kept it in the house just to make sure it works!

NOTE BEFORE I CONTINUE - you MUST have a meter capable of reading millivolts specifically! I tried testing it on 2 different meters that only read down to a tenth of a volt and it wouldnt work efficiently unless you were going from 140 to 180db which is unrealistic.

Ok, so i got my o-scope set to read millivolts.

I put the meter right up to the port on my computer speaker setup-

Klipsch surround with dual 8" power subwoofer drivers. (i think one may be a PR) but anyways onto results-

set volume to a certain level, played 0db generated tone at 37hz. Set bass (goes from -15 to +15) to -15 and gradually recorded what i was seeing.

o-scope rests at 0.0000 mV (pretty accurate)

Every time i increased the bass by 1, the millivolt reading increased! Every time i decreased bass by one, millivolt reading decreased instantly so meter does work.

The following Db results are pointless due to unknown port tuning, power applied, might be clipped, etc...

But results show that i went from 115.77507 Db - 133.95041 Db

So, at least we know it works. Now, just in time, the weather is getting warm enough to continue sound deadening for the rest of the week so gonna start doing that and at some point i will throw meter in the car and do about 45 minutes worth of box maneuvering to see which direction to face sub\port as a general idea and to obtain Fs currently from sealed box and start to build a test box soon(maybe if still undecided)

[JimJ 11]

LOL @ the level of "precision"...

[shizzzon 461]

if u really want to LOL, i'll make you ROFLMAOFLFLFLFLFLFLFLFLFLFLFLFLFLFL, hehe-

the chart only, hehe only, gives readouts to a millionth of a Db, which is one unit greater than i gave.

If you need something more...(because there are probably some no-brainer morons out there) the software it comes with can get even more precise... down to the trillionth!

Yea.. because a couple yrs from now, we are gonna be braggin because the record that was set(for example) with a 181.3 was recently broken with a 181.300000012802 Db !!! yah!!!