which choice for lsq

[SouthPole1989 0]

hi, i just got me a 02 king cab nissan fronteir and i have around 3 ft^3 of air space to play with. i could do more but i would like to keep the ensclure below the back window line. i figure since i dont have that much space it would have to be sealed. so i am looking for sound quality but would like it to be able to drop low and be decently loud and i listen to rap and r and b. so i am wondering would 2 12" icons powerd off of a saz1500d or a saz2000d since this wont be happening until after xmas with 1.5 ft^3 for each sub be louder and cleaner then 3 10" icons on a 3000d ( roughly 750 rms on each sub) with 1 ft^3 per sub. the front stage will consist 2 of the hyrid audio Legatia Series - Two-Way Component Systems , off of 2 sax100.2 active and using a 9887 for the processing. thank you for your time.

Edited June 17, 2008 by SouthPole1989

[bigdog829 0]

since this wont be happening until after xmas

If your anything like me or most of the community you will change your mind a million times between now & X-Mas.

Edited June 17, 2008 by bigdog829

[JimJ 11]

Rap?

Loud SQ?

What's louder?

I'm confused.

[Mark LaFountain 1,054]

hi, i just got me a 02 king cab nissan fronteir and i have around 3 ft^3 of air space to play with. i could do more but i would like to keep the ensclure below the back window line. i figure since i dont have that much space it would have to be sealed. so i am looking for sound quality but would like it to be able to drop low and be decently loud and i listen to rap and r and b. so i am wondering would 2 12" icons powerd off of a saz1500d or a saz2000d since this wont be happening until after xmas with 1.5 ft^3 for each sub be louder and cleaner then 3 10" icons on a 3000d ( roughly 750 rms on each sub) with 1 ft^3 per sub. the front stage will consist 2 of the hyrid audio Legatia Series - Two-Way Component Systems , off of 2 sax100.2 active and using a 9887 for the processing. thank you for your time.

This is deff. a personaly opinion questions, but if you want my vote. I would vote 3 10's on a SAZ-3000D. I've heard both setup's your describing and IMO the three subs will hit harder for what you want. Hope that helps you out.

[snb778 1]

what does LSQ mean?? I only see that on this forum.... Loud Sound Quality??

[JimJ 11]

what does LSQ mean??

Usually, it means the poster is having a hard time expressing what it is he actually wants

[dustin420 0]

i'd go 2 si mag 12's sealed with a good 1000wrms amp.

[helotaxi 46]

Why 2 Legatia sets? Just one set will sound better and the difference in loudness will be wreaked by the phase interference. No point in going active with time alignment capability if you can't align each driver individually. The results will be disappointing at best. You'd be better served giong with 2 Clarus sets and aligning them each off their own channel using the passives that come with them.

Nice choice on the truck, BTW. I'll be getting a new one when I get home in Aug.

[///M5 2,833]

I also am really confused. You are asking for conflicting things. Perhaps you should describe your goals without using the terms SQ, LSQ, or SPL. Then maybe we'd understand how to help. What you are currently asking makes no sense with what you think you are getting.

[jbob 0]

I think what most people mean by LSQ or S Q L (as this is for the most part my goal) is a good sounding system that can get very loud on the bass end. Effectively you have a well balanced good sounding system with lots of head room on the bass section so you can crank the remote gain when you want to have the air sucked out of your chest or crank it down when you just want some good sounding music.

Edited June 17, 2008 by jbob

[JimJ 11]

I think what most people mean by LSQ or S Q L (as this is for the most part my goal) is a good sounding system that can get very loud on the bass end.

Drives me nuts when it's used in that context, it makes no sense if you think about it.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Both options will have great sound and output in a correctly build box with clean power. If box height is an issue and budget is not, go with the 10's. If the visa versa is true, then go with the 12's. If you have between 500 and 1000 watts per driver you will be fine.

[///M5 2,833]

I think what most people mean by LSQ or S Q L (as this is for the most part my goal) is a good sounding system that can get very loud on the bass end.

Drives me nuts when it's used in that context, it makes no sense if you think about it.

I agree completely. 95% of people who say that think a fart cannon SPL setup is a good sounding system :( And the 95% is NOT an exaggeration. Just get something loud and enjoy going deaf.

LSQ requires at least as much money in your FRONT STAGE as your subs, since you are only asking about subs you do NOT care about SQ whether it is SQL or LSQ or whatever term you cite to make yourself feel different about your selections.

[jbob 0]

Well, i guess that's what I meant when it's an overall goal, but just for subs they probably just want a two note wonder instead of a total one note wonder.

But I agree when they're looking for LSQ and are only concerned about subs they usually just want loud bass.

[SouthPole1989 0]

u guys bash people too much ( granted u guys are refering to 95% of people and i admit i'm in there) but i gave u guys more info then just for subs i told the front stage the head unit and the amps used, i was just asking about the subs since i never used 10" subs before. but after some thinking i may just do a 12" ported and tune it low ( upper 20's) and that is so i can fit more then just 1 person in the truck. but if i go that route i may use a sub that can handle more wattage like an aa havoc or an older re XXX.

[dave_Edwards 1]

[audio-neon 34]

hi, i just got me a 02 king cab nissan fronteir and i have around 3 ft^3 of air space to play with. i could do more but i would like to keep the ensclure below the back window line. i figure since i dont have that much space it would have to be sealed. so i am looking for sound quality but would like it to be able to drop low and be decently loud and i listen to rap and r and b. so i am wondering would 2 12" icons powerd off of a saz1500d or a saz2000d since this wont be happening until after xmas with 1.5 ft^3 for each sub be louder and cleaner then 3 10" icons on a 3000d ( roughly 750 rms on each sub) with 1 ft^3 per sub. the front stage will consist 2 of the hyrid audio Legatia Series - Two-Way Component Systems , off of 2 sax100.2 active and using a 9887 for the processing. thank you for your time.

-I would only use 1 Legatia set-up. It has been mentioned before in this thread so I won't get into the issues of running multiple sets.

-I don't see a major difference in output between 2 12" Icons on ~1000 watts rms a piece and 3 10" Icons on 1000 watts rms. The 10's would have more cone area, but are slightly less efficient. All in all it comes down to space, and seeing your want for a lower tuned enclosure I would probably suggest the 12"s because they are slightly more efficient. But either route will yield very similar results in a properly built enclosure.

- Why buy 2 Sax-100.2's? You could always grab a 100.4 and save on amp space.

In any regards the term LSQ is simply a bad one. Any sound quality system (excluding exotic transducer designs) I have ever seen, the most toned down part of the audible spectrum is tweets and subs. You should have more than enough output with either sub option, remember that headroom is a good thing and the limiting factor on spl is the enclosure, almost every sub-woofer can get louder than necessary, it's all in the install.

[SouthPole1989 0]

i can fit the sax100.2 under the seats where as a sax100.4 will stick out an inch or so. and thanks.

[audiophyle_247 2]

u guys bash people too much ( granted u guys are refering to 95% of people and i admit i'm in there) but i gave u guys more info then just for subs i told the front stage the head unit and the amps used, i was just asking about the subs since i never used 10" subs before. but after some thinking i may just do a 12" ported and tune it low ( upper 20's) and that is so i can fit more then just 1 person in the truck. but if i go that route i may use a sub that can handle more wattage like an aa havoc or an older re XXX.

Here is my advice, take it if you want.

Quality OWNS quantity.

You have a somewhat small cabin space for that truck (unlike sedans or SUVs) and hitting the low low bass will suffer greatly because of this. Cone area is one thing, but the box is responsible for about 80% of the output, so between 3 10's or 2 12's in the same size box I would lean toward the 12's as the box is a bit small for 3 10" subs. (inhibiting low bass efficiency)

First instinct would be to jump into the 12's for the low bass, but the problem is your restrictions on box size will prevent you from getting a box tunable to 25~30 hz.

As the box gets smaller the port needs to be longer to tune low, but as the box gets bigger the port requirements get shorter to reach the low freq, there is a relationship here. The hardest part is lets say you build a 3cuft box, as you decide to tune lower the port gets longer, which takes up more space in the box, which makes the box even smaller, which makes port tuning even harder because you will be crunching TONS of numbers. & if you forgot to add in sub displacement your port will need to grow again.

So you can either make the box bigger than you want to run the 12's & hope to be able to tune the port low enough,

or

Go with 2 10's, keep the box the size you want and be able to tune the port as low as you want because the box gives you the room to do so.

I can say, 2 SSA 10's in a 2.6cube box ported to 30~31hz with 1500w rms is retarded loud. I am an installer/fabricator & have been doin this ish for years, and even I could not sit in that car for very long at full volume before my eyes began to hurt.

So this 3cuft you claim to have, is that an absolute measurement? Or did you measure it & subtract for material space taken? (ie drawing a pic & mapping out the internal dimensions of the ideal box to calculate the actual interior air space, not taking into consideration woofer displacement or port displacement)

Edited July 24, 2008 by audiophyle

[SpeakerBoy 64]

u guys bash people too much ( granted u guys are refering to 95% of people and i admit i'm in there) but i gave u guys more info then just for subs i told the front stage the head unit and the amps used, i was just asking about the subs since i never used 10" subs before. but after some thinking i may just do a 12" ported and tune it low ( upper 20's) and that is so i can fit more then just 1 person in the truck. but if i go that route i may use a sub that can handle more wattage like an aa havoc or an older re XXX.

Here is my advice, take it if you want.

Quality OWNS quantity.

You have a somewhat small cabin space for that truck (unlike sedans or SUVs) and hitting the low low bass will suffer greatly because of this. Cone area is one thing, but the box is responsible for about 80% of the output, so between 3 10's or 2 12's in the same size box I would lean toward the 12's as the box is a bit small for 3 10" subs. (inhibiting low bass efficiency)

First instinct would be to jump into the 12's for the low bass, but the problem is your restrictions on box size will prevent you from getting a box tunable to 25~30 hz.

As the box gets smaller the port needs to be longer to tune low, but as the box gets bigger the port requirements get shorter to reach the low freq, there is a relationship here. The hardest part is lets say you build a 3cuft box, as you decide to tune lower the port gets longer, which takes up more space in the box, which makes the box even smaller, which makes port tuning even harder because you will be crunching TONS of numbers. & if you forgot to add in sub displacement your port will need to grow again.

So you can either make the box bigger than you want to run the 12's & hope to be able to tune the port low enough,

or

Go with 2 10's, keep the box the size you want and be able to tune the port as low as you want because the box gives you the room to do so.

I can say, 2 SSA 10's in a 2.6cube box ported to 30~31hz with 1500w rms is retarded loud. I am an installer/fabricator & have been doin this ish for years, and even I could not sit in that car for very long at full volume before my eyes began to hurt.

So this 3cuft you claim to have, is that an absolute measurement? Or did you measure it & subtract for material space taken? (ie drawing a pic & mapping out the internal dimensions of the ideal box to calculate the actual interior air space, not taking into consideration woofer displacement or port displacement)

MY...BRAIN...HURTSSSSSSSSS!

[JimJ 11]

u guys bash people too much ( granted u guys are refering to 95% of people and i admit i'm in there) but i gave u guys more info then just for subs i told the front stage the head unit and the amps used, i was just asking about the subs since i never used 10" subs before. but after some thinking i may just do a 12" ported and tune it low ( upper 20's) and that is so i can fit more then just 1 person in the truck. but if i go that route i may use a sub that can handle more wattage like an aa havoc or an older re XXX.

Here is my advice, take it if you want.

Quality OWNS quantity.

You have a somewhat small cabin space for that truck (unlike sedans or SUVs) and hitting the low low bass will suffer greatly because of this. Cone area is one thing, but the box is responsible for about 80% of the output, so between 3 10's or 2 12's in the same size box I would lean toward the 12's as the box is a bit small for 3 10" subs. (inhibiting low bass efficiency)

First instinct would be to jump into the 12's for the low bass, but the problem is your restrictions on box size will prevent you from getting a box tunable to 25~30 hz.

As the box gets smaller the port needs to be longer to tune low, but as the box gets bigger the port requirements get shorter to reach the low freq, there is a relationship here. The hardest part is lets say you build a 3cuft box, as you decide to tune lower the port gets longer, which takes up more space in the box, which makes the box even smaller, which makes port tuning even harder because you will be crunching TONS of numbers. & if you forgot to add in sub displacement your port will need to grow again.

So you can either make the box bigger than you want to run the 12's & hope to be able to tune the port low enough,

or

Go with 2 10's, keep the box the size you want and be able to tune the port as low as you want because the box gives you the room to do so.

I can say, 2 SSA 10's in a 2.6cube box ported to 30~31hz with 1500w rms is retarded loud. I am an installer/fabricator & have been doin this ish for years, and even I could not sit in that car for very long at full volume before my eyes began to hurt.

So this 3cuft you claim to have, is that an absolute measurement? Or did you measure it & subtract for material space taken? (ie drawing a pic & mapping out the internal dimensions of the ideal box to calculate the actual interior air space, not taking into consideration woofer displacement or port displacement)

MY...BRAIN...HURTSSSSSSSSS!

Learn to read, then.

[1sashenka 0]

u guys bash people too much ( granted u guys are refering to 95% of people and i admit i'm in there) but i gave u guys more info then just for subs i told the front stage the head unit and the amps used, i was just asking about the subs since i never used 10" subs before. but after some thinking i may just do a 12" ported and tune it low ( upper 20's) and that is so i can fit more then just 1 person in the truck. but if i go that route i may use a sub that can handle more wattage like an aa havoc or an older re XXX.

I agree. There are a couple of bashers that think they know everything. I have/had all kinds of set ups, and in my experience three tens slam a tiny bit harder that two twelves on same power, and also on a positive note, the tens rattle your car less. So same loudness or more, and less car rattles. On the other side, tens will weigh more, and with bigger amp like 3000D, chances are you will never be able to get full potential out of it with your electrical system. You also may want to get into another battery at the back for such a big amp, and the list goes on, if you want to overkill like that, and you gotta do these upgrades, if you want to get most out of your system.

In my opinion, 1500D(I have one) has enough bass to peal the trip off your car, if you have enough electrical to feed it, and for LSQ it will even be overkill, so you can keep the gains low. There is no need for a bigger amp for sure. This thing is just a beast, and is very efficient. Two twelves are cheaper, and with 1700 watts on two subs in 1.5 cubes each will also be plenty.

So, I vote 1500D with two 12's. Just get the D1 versions, so you can run them bridged at 1 ohm final load.

Look at my sig below. I have 1000 watts on two 12's sealed in 2 cubes total, and the Arcs have less xmax. With bass heavy tracks and on high volume, it feels like your heart is skipping a beat in your chest, and it is so loud, that I get blurry vision. It is redicilous. Imagine what you can do with more power, bigger box, higher xmax subs... This is what the system is capable of, and if you want to have a more balanced sound, by all means lower your sub output on your deck. Make sure you got enough power on the front stage with efficient and capable speakers(6.5" minimum), and you will be in heaven. As far, as the single 12" XXX or equvalent is concerned, it will have more distortion when you push it. My fave sub from all those was a previous generation 12" SI Mag. I sold it a long while ago to make room for the newer version, I wanted to get a single 15", but later found out SI had no plans for a new 15". I still prefer 2 subs(at least 12's), or one bigger one like 15" or bigger. I also have 3 CSS 10SDX's, and run them at 1.33 ohms, and they slam loud and clean. I also have a Zapco C2K 6.0 amp(around 1300 watts at 2 ohms), and it is amazing to use on the sub stage, cause of it's bipolar output devices design, and as you push it harder, it seems to excellerate the current into your subs like no other mosfet type amp, but is a greedy sucker at that point.

Edited September 15, 2008 by 1sashenka

[1sashenka 0]

hi, i just got me a 02 king cab nissan fronteir and i have around 3 ft^3 of air space to play with. i could do more but i would like to keep the ensclure below the back window line. i figure since i dont have that much space it would have to be sealed. so i am looking for sound quality but would like it to be able to drop low and be decently loud and i listen to rap and r and b. so i am wondering would 2 12" icons powerd off of a saz1500d or a saz2000d since this wont be happening until after xmas with 1.5 ft^3 for each sub be louder and cleaner then 3 10" icons on a 3000d ( roughly 750 rms on each sub) with 1 ft^3 per sub. the front stage will consist 2 of the hyrid audio Legatia Series - Two-Way Component Systems , off of 2 sax100.2 active and using a 9887 for the processing. thank you for your time.

Great choice on the Hybrids. I am on my way now to help my buddy install a set for the front stage, and I got them during the group buy a couple of months ago at 25% off. And Sundown makes the best amps for the money - hands down. 9987 is great too. Sounds like you will have a killer system. Make sure and dont compromise on the install. Good wiring and Dynamat, big 3, etc.