New Front Stage

[///M5 2,833]

Well, to me, it seems you're lacking processing capabilities to do a great job at this point, so active is out IMO. I hope what I wrote above clears up a few things, cause you may want to do it right if you go active, or not do it at all. That CDT passive set sounds pretty incredible, and I bet you are getting it for a very good price, as they are on sale these days. You can get a two channel amp, or a four channel and bridge it, if you really want to got that way. I am just saying that guys that are picky about SQ, would not do any bridging on the front stage, as distortion is more audible on higher freqs.

What you are just saying makes no sense at all. How does bridging have anything to do with distortion at high frequencies. More headroom is ALWAYS better.

You probably misunderstood what I was saying. It has nothing to do with power/headroom. I am all for overkill, and running over 250w/side on my fronts. Here is a quote from Arc Audio SE manual. And you can also google the details, if necessary for the facts on this matter.

"All Arc Audio amplifiers include an input mode switch. This switch controls the signal being sent to the amplifier sections. Most 2-channel amplifiers can be bridged into a single channel however if the signal to the channels is not exactly the distortion will increase significantly. The mode switch solves this problem by offering 3 modes of operation."

So you see, it's about the differences in signal strength. And like I was sayng earlier, some amps behave better some worse in bridged modes for high pass components, low pass equipment like subs are not affected as much due to lower audibility. It is also about dampening. You can look at dampaning figures on a manual, and argue till you're blue in a face, that according to calculations, and such high dampning factor of a certain amp, that for example anything over 25 is inaudible, but in reality most people will hear the difference between 25 and 200 final dampening on certain impedance load on the front stage. Subs again, not so much. I for one have little faith in damping factor rating. For front stage, you CAN hear the speaker control differences at different impedances. I've heard amps with lower dampening rating sound better than the ones rated higher, but it's not only about dampening. This is another can of worms. Hey, if bridging a 4-channel into a 2-channel did not have it's shortcomings, that everyone would be doing it, as it makes perfect sense to spend less money to get more power out of the amps.

I see a lot of people bridge amps, I think you are highly over reacting by labeling them shortcomings.

[1sashenka 0]

Not over reacting at all. I am providing cons with the pros. I said that SOME people who are picky about SQ would do it differently. Those who compile gear with extreme prejudice and pay attention to little details. I could care less, what people decide to do. They ask for options, and I am here to give my input when asked. If you read more carefully, and had something valuable to contribute by all means, but you're pissing me off with your pointless comments. Go bridge an amp...

Edited August 26, 2008 by 1sashenka

[///M5 2,833]

Not over reacting at all. I am providing cons with the pros. I said that SOME people who are picky about SQ would do it differently. Those who compile gear with extreme prejudice and pay attention to little details. I could care less, what people decide to do. They ask for options, and I am here to give my input when asked. If you read more carefully, and had something valuable to contribute by all means, but you're pissing me off with your pointless comments. Go bridge an amp...

Whatever, not really the case. That portion of the "some" doesn't pertain at all to the OP so I feel you were misleading him. In fact, I flat out don't buy it anyways but either way for sure it doesn't belong in this thread.

[///M5 2,833]

If you go active with that amp, your system will not be loud enough for LSQ purposes for example. SQ guys love active set ups, but I like power, so unless you got at least 150 watts going to those mids, it will be pretty quiet system. I have gone back and forth with passive and active, so now I know I need power. 90w is not too good, man. I would go passive with double the power, and the system will be loud and clean. Also, I am not a big fan of bridging 4 channels into two, cause you never know how that amp will behave in bridged mode. If your preouts dont have equally balanced voltage levels, you are looking at increased distortion issues, which is the case with pretty much all amps out there. Some are worse some are better, but all have these issues. Physics to blame. You can google that. Go ahead and try it, you may not notice anything, it's just me and some other people may be anal about such details.

Oh and, I am not intending to get into arguements on how passives are adding resitance, losing 3db, etc, etc. I know all about the benefits of going active. All I am saying in this case I will choose more power over everything else active set-up has to offer, unless he gets a bigger amp. I feel, 150w/side is where it starts to sound good, and anything over 200w/side becomes overkill.

Everything in bold is a bit ridiculous as well. I'd like to know how 150w is good and 200w is overkill, the difference in output is nominal between them

[Karatekid 0]

Oh, one other thing, I'd run like hell from the AQ amps.

What makes them not a good buy?

I believe that they belong to digital designs cause on the packaging slip in the box had the digital design name on it and when they sent me the confimation email from ups it said at the request of digital designs. So they couldn't be all that bad right?

[ANeonRider 3]

Maybe check out the Hi-Vi components. But if you are getting a 4 channel consider going active.

i know this has come up before but i wish someone would do a "HOW to" DIY with pics... or a sticky ....

i wanna go active but i know ill F-it up...

i have NO CULE how to manage any Freq above 120Hz

And pictures won't help you figure it out any further.

[1sashenka 0]

If you go active with that amp, your system will not be loud enough for LSQ purposes for example. SQ guys love active set ups, but I like power, so unless you got at least 150 watts going to those mids, it will be pretty quiet system. I have gone back and forth with passive and active, so now I know I need power. 90w is not too good, man. I would go passive with double the power, and the system will be loud and clean. Also, I am not a big fan of bridging 4 channels into two, cause you never know how that amp will behave in bridged mode. If your preouts dont have equally balanced voltage levels, you are looking at increased distortion issues, which is the case with pretty much all amps out there. Some are worse some are better, but all have these issues. Physics to blame. You can google that. Go ahead and try it, you may not notice anything, it's just me and some other people may be anal about such details.

Oh and, I am not intending to get into arguements on how passives are adding resitance, losing 3db, etc, etc. I know all about the benefits of going active. All I am saying in this case I will choose more power over everything else active set-up has to offer, unless he gets a bigger amp. I feel, 150w/side is where it starts to sound good, and anything over 200w/side becomes overkill.

Everything in bold is a bit ridiculous as well. I'd like to know how 150w is good and 200w is overkill, the difference in output is nominal between them

I would explain everything in detail, but it is useless to try to explain something to you. You are a total waste of time Mr. 29000 posts. Get a friend.

And to answer this question to the original thread starter. Simply put - the extra drain on the electrical system does not pay off to get the extra Class AB 50 watts, as the difference in performance is marginal at best. Unless you have upgraded electrical, all this overkill is for nothing. At loud volumes you get more voltage drops, amps work harder, etc, all this has a trickling down effect. And not to have you confused with retarded comments M5 is making, all these things I tell you will not make or break your system. Just food for thought, pros and cons, and options. You decide.

Obviously, M5 does not have a loud and clean system, and has no concept of what loud is. Using those LPG's in a two-way, I know it sounds like crap at high volumes, but what the hell, he does not play it loud, so it sounds decent to him. I have them in a 3-way at home, and I know how they could sound crossed lower than... lol Pretty easy to diss someones choices without getting the facts straight. What a moron! After all this time he spends here, he still has no grasp on what forums are for. You need options, people give them to you, but instead he has time to argue with other threaders instead of offering something productive. Over 29000 posts WTF!!! Does he have a life?

Edited August 26, 2008 by 1sashenka

[ANeonRider 3]

How many people here run full duty cycle 1kHz tones daily?

I'd like to meet someone whom uses their full RMS capability even 2% of the time.

1. 90W vs. 150W isn't even an 3dB difference in power & and will not be audibly distinguishable... especially with 85-90dB 1W sensitivity drivers that are commonly used.

2. 150W vs. 200W has a very minute difference in output. It will not make your distortion levels higher. You hit power level peaks less than 1% of the time...

3. Amplifier power levels are one of the last things that needs to be considered when designing a system.

This keyboard diarrhea is making my head hurt.

As for this bridging distortion noise... if you can hear a 0.001% vs. a 0.005% distortion difference, I'd like you to apply for a Guiness Record. Physically, it is impossible for the human ear to distinguish the difference.

[ANeonRider 3]

OP: Please start a new topic.

[mrray13 30]

Obviously, M5 does not have a loud and clean system, and has no concept of what loud is.

obviously you have never sat in ///M5's truck, lol. LOUD, clean and very accurate. while my substage killed his, his blended very well, was hard to pinpoint and reached low. his mid and tweets? you'd understand ozzy "talking" in his truck, lol. thyat's how clear it is.

sorry neon, i just had too...

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee