Welcome to the IHoP

[dem beats 1,223]

Hell I'm fat and had burger king today.

I literally lol'd

It's so sadly true. I spend 8 hours on the phone and 2 trying to change my wifes oil. Jiffy lube way over TQed it and I nearly stripped the bolt. I'm going to kill them tomorrow AM.

When I get busy... I eat like shit, unless I boxed meals for the next day.

Last night I had an italian sammich. Sean I made my buddy hang his head out the window of the car it was so rank. I have to give those up. Makes me sad.

Protein shakes never mess with my guts. I'm lucky. I need your miso soup recipie and more importantly to know where you buy the products. I would have it every day for breakfast with some firm tofu for sure. Maybe some noodles too now that I am back in the gym.

[dem beats 1,223]

Call Me jack ass stefan. I'm just trying to help you out.

I hope you understand that this isn't an e-peen contest. God knows I'm a much better teacher than role model or example setter.

[dem beats 1,223]

Another metaphor would be like someone hopping on here saying that with a 14th order bandpass uber design they can just get a billion DB's without any power and in a small box.

The math just doesn't really add up and it smells like stale fish. Now if that guy says I only want to play xyz freq uber load and cannot have a big enclosure because he drives a lotus, then we can work within those constraints to min max.

The problem is that so many people try to min max for results before they even have the basics down. Guys at my gym take super spendy vitamins and creatine and eat french fries. Take grey market drugs and of course they get results. But if they just followed a better diet they would flourish.

[ssh 924]

Are your benefits measurable? I think you've trained your body based on your belief. Pretty easy to do. Somewhat the opposite of being in touch with it though. Mind over matter easily occurs when you are the matter. I'm mostly shocked it makes you feel better. Of course the natural elation of finally being nourished when starved is exciting, I don't look forward to causing it to happen. There's a reason your body feels like it does when it's hungry.

Unfortunately there isn't any great way to measure, besides progression in workouts, or accurate methods of taking body fat measurements. (trying to differentiate what was from fasting vs working out vs diet would be nearly impossible) So it's just something I either take faith in sort of / try a normal eating window for a few months, and see how I feel / progress, but the latter would be so fucking hard to draw a conclusion.

Honestly if I felt bad, discomfort, or anything negative then I would flat out stop doing it. I don't have anything to gain in supporting something I don't believe in.

I get the last statement about not eating for a long time, and finally eating, and having some emotional response, but really I don't feel much in that department either. I feel more after doing an intense workout, and then eating. But hiking or the alike isn't intense.

In any event, good or bad, it's not for everyone.

I'm beating on you now because I want a solid statement of why you are doing this and endorse it. Don't say you don't because you diseminated the information and kind of drink the cool aid.

What I am asking, and what Sean is being nice about is the fact that you need to have some way of quantifying the benefit of what you are doing without using studies that you haven't measured on your self.

I have done the blood work on myself. I have seen other peoples bloodwork posted.

Just say what your goal is and how you know this format helps you acheive it. No one can counter an argument that is set up as such. Saying "it's not for everyone, but it's what works best for me" is like saying "well it sounds louder" when it's 2 db down from the guy next to you.

Honestly how would you expect me to accurately measure a difference VS standard eating? Should I get a dexa scan once a week for three months, then compare to regular eating for three months? What about differences in calorie and protein intake, how would I account for that. Even if I attempted to do such thing it would be considered "poorly conducted" even to me. Too many variables in which I couldn't account for, waste of time.

The only thing quantifiable are my gains in strength, mass, and no visible fat gain. Once again just something anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt.

If I could simply shove some meter up my ass, and it could tell me whether fasting was helping or harming my goals of strength, and lean mass, then I would.

[ssh 924]

Call Me jack ass stefan. I'm just trying to help you out.

I hope you understand that this isn't an e-peen contest. God knows I'm a much better teacher than role model or example setter.

I understand your trying to help, but I'm just not buying it. You can call me a jackass too.

[ssh 924]

I will say one thing I didn't like about fasting was having a shorter window for getting enough kcals in. But then I started drinking milk, and now it's a cake walk.

I think I have my milk issue under control too so I should be golden for meeting my kcals daily. If for some reason milk does become an issue, and I find myself not able to get all the kcals in my eating window, then I'll definitely switch to standard eating since the "benefits" of fasting don't out-weight the negatives of not eating enough and trying to gain mass.

[ssh 924]

Right now I'm sitting at 3800kcal and 130g protein. Lets see how much more I get to.

[ssh 924]

I'm curious what's your calorie intake for maintenance, and gaining mass Matt?

[///M5 2,833]

Protein shakes never mess with my guts. I'm lucky. I need your miso soup recipie and more importantly to know where you buy the products. I would have it every day for breakfast with some firm tofu for sure. Maybe some noodles too now that I am back in the gym.

I'd recommend United Noodle. It's almost in the parking lot of Coastal.

Mine consists of Miso & Daishi.

Daishi needs Kombu (kelp) and Bonito Flakes (hana katsuo may be on the package)

Technique is somewhat tricky as you slowly heat the kombu, if you boil it your fucked, but it takes about 10 minutes to get soft. Once soft, remove it, bring water to a boil, kill the boil (I use a little water) and Bonito and bring to a boil then shut off the heat. 5 minutes later or so I strain. I sort of wait for the bonito to start to settle. Add some miso and bam. A little fish stock goes a long way. Have some shrimp stock that I'll be doing it with tomorrow. Had some gorgeous whole blue prawns so I figured I'd eat them twice

Obviously things like green onion, wakame, tofu, and nearly any mushroom are nice additions.

Oh, it's worth ordering a duck the day before you go.

[dem beats 1,223]

Are your benefits measurable? I think you've trained your body based on your belief. Pretty easy to do. Somewhat the opposite of being in touch with it though. Mind over matter easily occurs when you are the matter. I'm mostly shocked it makes you feel better. Of course the natural elation of finally being nourished when starved is exciting, I don't look forward to causing it to happen. There's a reason your body feels like it does when it's hungry.

Unfortunately there isn't any great way to measure, besides progression in workouts, or accurate methods of taking body fat measurements. (trying to differentiate what was from fasting vs working out vs diet would be nearly impossible) So it's just something I either take faith in sort of / try a normal eating window for a few months, and see how I feel / progress, but the latter would be so fucking hard to draw a conclusion.

Honestly if I felt bad, discomfort, or anything negative then I would flat out stop doing it. I don't have anything to gain in supporting something I don't believe in.

I get the last statement about not eating for a long time, and finally eating, and having some emotional response, but really I don't feel much in that department either. I feel more after doing an intense workout, and then eating. But hiking or the alike isn't intense.

In any event, good or bad, it's not for everyone.

I'm beating on you now because I want a solid statement of why you are doing this and endorse it. Don't say you don't because you diseminated the information and kind of drink the cool aid.

What I am asking, and what Sean is being nice about is the fact that you need to have some way of quantifying the benefit of what you are doing without using studies that you haven't measured on your self.

I have done the blood work on myself. I have seen other peoples bloodwork posted.

Just say what your goal is and how you know this format helps you acheive it. No one can counter an argument that is set up as such. Saying "it's not for everyone, but it's what works best for me" is like saying "well it sounds louder" when it's 2 db down from the guy next to you.

Honestly how would you expect me to accurately measure a difference VS standard eating? Should I get a dexa scan once a week for three months, then compare to regular eating for three months? What about differences in calorie and protein intake, how would I account for that. Even if I attempted to do such thing it would be considered "poorly conducted" even to me. Too many variables in which I couldn't account for, waste of time.

The only thing quantifiable are my gains in strength, mass, and no visible fat gain. Once again just something anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt.

If I could simply shove some meter up my ass, and it could tell me whether fasting was helping or harming my goals of strength, and lean mass, then I would.

You still have not answered my original question from pages back and the first question on my post. What is your goal from this method and why do you believe it will work better with a fasting program than a more traditional format?

If you could answer that, then it is really easy to start measuring results and finding out what works better. The too many variables argument is tired and old. Yes a CRX will peak differently than an explorer. But not enough to make a funky pup with 150 wants tuned within a nano HZ louder than a pair of 18" icons on 3k in a big box that is within standard deviation of perfect.

So again, what is your goal and why do feel your approach is more viable than the more accepted rout?

[///M5 2,833]

Restaurants usually mix miso paste in soups so as to not offend any particular regional tastes.

Light or yellow is sweet

Red is more savory

They get darker as well, but I'd start with those. Cheap enough to buy 2.

They'll have almost any tofu you want and a bunch of other yummy stuff. I always hit Coastal and United together.

[///M5 2,833]

I wouldn't drink that much pasteurized milk.

[dem beats 1,223]

Protein shakes never mess with my guts. I'm lucky. I need your miso soup recipie and more importantly to know where you buy the products. I would have it every day for breakfast with some firm tofu for sure. Maybe some noodles too now that I am back in the gym.

I'd recommend United Noodle. It's almost in the parking lot of Coastal.

Mine consists of Miso & Daishi.

Daishi needs Kombu (kelp) and Bonito Flakes (hana katsuo may be on the package)

Technique is somewhat tricky as you slowly heat the kombu, if you boil it your fucked, but it takes about 10 minutes to get soft. Once soft, remove it, bring water to a boil, kill the boil (I use a little water) and Bonito and bring to a boil then shut off the heat. 5 minutes later or so I strain. I sort of wait for the bonito to start to settle. Add some miso and bam. A little fish stock goes a long way. Have some shrimp stock that I'll be doing it with tomorrow. Had some gorgeous whole blue prawns so I figured I'd eat them twice

Obviously things like green onion, wakame, tofu, and nearly any mushroom are nice additions.

Oh, it's worth ordering a duck the day before you go.

Do they do juicey and crispy duck?

[Godsmack 360]

Well I am now 2/3 the way to medically being out. Should be done by December.

J

[dem beats 1,223]

I'm curious what's your calorie intake for maintenance, and gaining mass Matt?

When quite active I can loose weight at 4500kcal. If I'm balls to the walls working out and active I can lose fat and gain muscle at 6000. Its hard for me to eat that much now though.

[ssh 924]

Are your benefits measurable? I think you've trained your body based on your belief. Pretty easy to do. Somewhat the opposite of being in touch with it though. Mind over matter easily occurs when you are the matter. I'm mostly shocked it makes you feel better. Of course the natural elation of finally being nourished when starved is exciting, I don't look forward to causing it to happen. There's a reason your body feels like it does when it's hungry.

Unfortunately there isn't any great way to measure, besides progression in workouts, or accurate methods of taking body fat measurements. (trying to differentiate what was from fasting vs working out vs diet would be nearly impossible) So it's just something I either take faith in sort of / try a normal eating window for a few months, and see how I feel / progress, but the latter would be so fucking hard to draw a conclusion.

Honestly if I felt bad, discomfort, or anything negative then I would flat out stop doing it. I don't have anything to gain in supporting something I don't believe in.

I get the last statement about not eating for a long time, and finally eating, and having some emotional response, but really I don't feel much in that department either. I feel more after doing an intense workout, and then eating. But hiking or the alike isn't intense.

In any event, good or bad, it's not for everyone.

I'm beating on you now because I want a solid statement of why you are doing this and endorse it. Don't say you don't because you diseminated the information and kind of drink the cool aid.

What I am asking, and what Sean is being nice about is the fact that you need to have some way of quantifying the benefit of what you are doing without using studies that you haven't measured on your self.

I have done the blood work on myself. I have seen other peoples bloodwork posted.

Just say what your goal is and how you know this format helps you acheive it. No one can counter an argument that is set up as such. Saying "it's not for everyone, but it's what works best for me" is like saying "well it sounds louder" when it's 2 db down from the guy next to you.

Honestly how would you expect me to accurately measure a difference VS standard eating? Should I get a dexa scan once a week for three months, then compare to regular eating for three months? What about differences in calorie and protein intake, how would I account for that. Even if I attempted to do such thing it would be considered "poorly conducted" even to me. Too many variables in which I couldn't account for, waste of time.

The only thing quantifiable are my gains in strength, mass, and no visible fat gain. Once again just something anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt.

If I could simply shove some meter up my ass, and it could tell me whether fasting was helping or harming my goals of strength, and lean mass, then I would.

You still have not answered my original question from pages back and the first question on my post. What is your goal from this method and why do you believe it will work better with a fasting program than a more traditional format?

If you could answer that, then it is really easy to start measuring results and finding out what works better. The too many variables argument is tired and old. Yes a CRX will peak differently than an explorer. But not enough to make a funky pup with 150 wants tuned within a nano HZ louder than a pair of 18" icons on 3k in a big box that is within standard deviation of perfect.

So again, what is your goal and why do feel your approach is more viable than the more accepted rout?

I already listed some benefits, but primarily an increase in protein synthesis, and better adaption to fat burning. My goals are increasing strength and mass while putting on minimal fat.

So I'm banking on the increased protein synthesis to help with strength and mass, and that burning more fat for fuel instead of solely carbs can help reduce the fat gain.

How I would measure those differences separately from all the other variables that come into play that I have no fucking clue. I'm not using it as an excuse. I simply don't know how the fuck you would differentiate it from everything else that comes into play.

Your analogy of comparing what's happening in the body to how loud stereo is isn't very fair. It's easy to throw some db meter in the car, and record the results.

[ssh 924]

I wouldn't drink that much pasteurized milk.

Your right, it probably isn't the best idea, but it's something I'm compromising with until I find a better means.

[dem beats 1,223]

Are your benefits measurable? I think you've trained your body based on your belief. Pretty easy to do. Somewhat the opposite of being in touch with it though. Mind over matter easily occurs when you are the matter. I'm mostly shocked it makes you feel better. Of course the natural elation of finally being nourished when starved is exciting, I don't look forward to causing it to happen. There's a reason your body feels like it does when it's hungry.

Unfortunately there isn't any great way to measure, besides progression in workouts, or accurate methods of taking body fat measurements. (trying to differentiate what was from fasting vs working out vs diet would be nearly impossible) So it's just something I either take faith in sort of / try a normal eating window for a few months, and see how I feel / progress, but the latter would be so fucking hard to draw a conclusion.

Honestly if I felt bad, discomfort, or anything negative then I would flat out stop doing it. I don't have anything to gain in supporting something I don't believe in.

I get the last statement about not eating for a long time, and finally eating, and having some emotional response, but really I don't feel much in that department either. I feel more after doing an intense workout, and then eating. But hiking or the alike isn't intense.

In any event, good or bad, it's not for everyone.

I'm beating on you now because I want a solid statement of why you are doing this and endorse it. Don't say you don't because you diseminated the information and kind of drink the cool aid.

What I am asking, and what Sean is being nice about is the fact that you need to have some way of quantifying the benefit of what you are doing without using studies that you haven't measured on your self.

I have done the blood work on myself. I have seen other peoples bloodwork posted.

Just say what your goal is and how you know this format helps you acheive it. No one can counter an argument that is set up as such. Saying "it's not for everyone, but it's what works best for me" is like saying "well it sounds louder" when it's 2 db down from the guy next to you.

Honestly how would you expect me to accurately measure a difference VS standard eating? Should I get a dexa scan once a week for three months, then compare to regular eating for three months? What about differences in calorie and protein intake, how would I account for that. Even if I attempted to do such thing it would be considered "poorly conducted" even to me. Too many variables in which I couldn't account for, waste of time.

The only thing quantifiable are my gains in strength, mass, and no visible fat gain. Once again just something anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt.

If I could simply shove some meter up my ass, and it could tell me whether fasting was helping or harming my goals of strength, and lean mass, then I would.

You still have not answered my original question from pages back and the first question on my post. What is your goal from this method and why do you believe it will work better with a fasting program than a more traditional format?

If you could answer that, then it is really easy to start measuring results and finding out what works better. The too many variables argument is tired and old. Yes a CRX will peak differently than an explorer. But not enough to make a funky pup with 150 wants tuned within a nano HZ louder than a pair of 18" icons on 3k in a big box that is within standard deviation of perfect.

So again, what is your goal and why do feel your approach is more viable than the more accepted rout?

I already listed some benefits, but primarily an increase in protein synthesis, and better adaption to fat burning. My goals are increasing strength and mass while putting on minimal fat.

So I'm banking on the increased protein synthesis to help with strength and mass, and that burning more fat for fuel instead of solely carbs can help reduce the fat gain.

How I would measure those differences separately from all the other variables that come into play that I have no fucking clue. I'm not using it as an excuse. I simply don't know how the fuck you would differentiate it from everything else that comes into play.

Your analogy of comparing what's happening in the body to how loud stereo is isn't very fair. It's easy to throw some db meter in the car, and record the results.

It's not a fair analogy but it's accurate in principal. One of our hypothesis is correct. And not by a small margin.

I guess I'm not getting my point across. I'm asking why you believe not what you believe. We have established that "hard science supports both claims". And as for the goals unless you have specific ones you are right, its not possible to measure. But if you say I want to make x weight at x body fat we can see which method is faster at results. Then the reason why matters less.

I'll drop it because there is no way to measure something when you have no yardstick.

[ssh 924]

Are your benefits measurable? I think you've trained your body based on your belief. Pretty easy to do. Somewhat the opposite of being in touch with it though. Mind over matter easily occurs when you are the matter. I'm mostly shocked it makes you feel better. Of course the natural elation of finally being nourished when starved is exciting, I don't look forward to causing it to happen. There's a reason your body feels like it does when it's hungry.

Unfortunately there isn't any great way to measure, besides progression in workouts, or accurate methods of taking body fat measurements. (trying to differentiate what was from fasting vs working out vs diet would be nearly impossible) So it's just something I either take faith in sort of / try a normal eating window for a few months, and see how I feel / progress, but the latter would be so fucking hard to draw a conclusion.

Honestly if I felt bad, discomfort, or anything negative then I would flat out stop doing it. I don't have anything to gain in supporting something I don't believe in.

I get the last statement about not eating for a long time, and finally eating, and having some emotional response, but really I don't feel much in that department either. I feel more after doing an intense workout, and then eating. But hiking or the alike isn't intense.

In any event, good or bad, it's not for everyone.

I'm beating on you now because I want a solid statement of why you are doing this and endorse it. Don't say you don't because you diseminated the information and kind of drink the cool aid.

What I am asking, and what Sean is being nice about is the fact that you need to have some way of quantifying the benefit of what you are doing without using studies that you haven't measured on your self.

I have done the blood work on myself. I have seen other peoples bloodwork posted.

Just say what your goal is and how you know this format helps you acheive it. No one can counter an argument that is set up as such. Saying "it's not for everyone, but it's what works best for me" is like saying "well it sounds louder" when it's 2 db down from the guy next to you.

Honestly how would you expect me to accurately measure a difference VS standard eating? Should I get a dexa scan once a week for three months, then compare to regular eating for three months? What about differences in calorie and protein intake, how would I account for that. Even if I attempted to do such thing it would be considered "poorly conducted" even to me. Too many variables in which I couldn't account for, waste of time.

The only thing quantifiable are my gains in strength, mass, and no visible fat gain. Once again just something anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt.

If I could simply shove some meter up my ass, and it could tell me whether fasting was helping or harming my goals of strength, and lean mass, then I would.

You still have not answered my original question from pages back and the first question on my post. What is your goal from this method and why do you believe it will work better with a fasting program than a more traditional format?

If you could answer that, then it is really easy to start measuring results and finding out what works better. The too many variables argument is tired and old. Yes a CRX will peak differently than an explorer. But not enough to make a funky pup with 150 wants tuned within a nano HZ louder than a pair of 18" icons on 3k in a big box that is within standard deviation of perfect.

So again, what is your goal and why do feel your approach is more viable than the more accepted rout?

I already listed some benefits, but primarily an increase in protein synthesis, and better adaption to fat burning. My goals are increasing strength and mass while putting on minimal fat.

So I'm banking on the increased protein synthesis to help with strength and mass, and that burning more fat for fuel instead of solely carbs can help reduce the fat gain.

How I would measure those differences separately from all the other variables that come into play that I have no fucking clue. I'm not using it as an excuse. I simply don't know how the fuck you would differentiate it from everything else that comes into play.

Your analogy of comparing what's happening in the body to how loud stereo is isn't very fair. It's easy to throw some db meter in the car, and record the results.

It's not a fair analogy but it's accurate in principal. One of our hypothesis is correct. And not by a small margin.

I guess I'm not getting my point across. I'm asking why you believe not what you believe. We have established that "hard science supports both claims". And as for the goals unless you have specific ones you are right, its not possible to measure. But if you say I want to make x weight at x body fat we can see which method is faster at results. Then the reason why matters less.

I'll drop it because there is no way to measure something when you have no yardstick.

I just don't think it would be accurate. I could try meeting one goal for a while with one diet, then try the next goal for with fasting, but it wouldn't be fair or accurate.

ie: goal of 1rm 80lb chinup. Currently I can do 60. Well lets say it takes xxx to get from 60 to 80, so to test it with fasting, I would have to do 80 to 100? Would comparing going from 60 to 80 be the same as going from 80 to 100? That I'm not really sure.......

Edited August 24, 2012 by stefanhinote

[///M5 2,833]

I have a stick the length of a yard

[///M5 2,833]

That was one post late

[///M5 2,833]

My cats mouth smells like cat food

[ssh 924]

I have a stick the length of a yard

I bet it gets rug burns when you walk.

[ssh 924]

Well I am now 2/3 the way to medically being out. Should be done by December.

J

Figure out what your doing after?

[///M5 2,833]

And I'm a moron. Made beef jerky last night, but somehow shut the oven off before going to bed. Wasn't really dry enough when the oven went off

Of course, I was really drying a pan of fresh thai chilis but figured I'd had an extra pan so I grabbed a steak yesterday. Damn waste of a steak.