quick midbass opinon needed - DLS IR8's vs Dayton Reference RS-225

[manbeer 0]

I was initially going to run the Peerless SLS's to start out with but since i am limited on area for midrange and they are currently not in the best locations i decided to go with a dome for the off axis response and sealed chamber. That will be either the Dayton RS52, or the MB-Q 95-6814 (2" Ti dome) until i can afford the Dyn MD140

Anyway i have heard a few people say that they don't really play low enough/the SLS won't play WELL high enough, i was looking into the Dayton RS225 8" mids. They seem to be very nice and since i am constantly ordering from parts express, its the easy and cheap solution

A member on another forum has a mint set of DLS Ultimate Iridiums for 175 though, so it would only be like 50-60 dollars more for those. My doors are already cut to those exact dimensions so it would save me a bit of work too.

Any thoughts on this? I kind of like the fact that the Daytons have the phase plug, but on the other hand i doubt that it will really make a big difference in this application. They have to play from approx. 45hz - 700 hz. I am not 100% decided on power but probably will be running on 2 channels of a Xenon 200.4, and possibly bridged from the same amp once i find a dedicated subwoofer amp

Thanks in advance

[///M5 2,833]

Sure you can't fit a 3"?

Going from the SLS to the RS-225 will cost you a lot of midbass potential.

[manbeer 0]

I have exactly 3.75" inner diameter, 4.75 outer diameter. I need a dome cause it will be easier to use in my application without going TOO nuts to separate the chamber from that of the midbass. If necessary i can enlarge the holes by a bit but not much at all, maybe 1/4" the rest would be trimmed from the flange of the driver

The DLS 3" dome would fit perfectly but unfortunately is butt ugly. The MB's and the RS52's seem to actually play lower than the comparable 3" domes from morel and Dyn. I am thinking that with some creative x-over work i COULD get them to blend but since i am a noob to active i think it may be better not to play on the edge there

[///M5 2,833]

Mounting locations?

[manbeer 0]

unfortunately-

i just want to fill the holes so i can be ready for show season, and i will rework the doors and relocate the mids to the kicks and the tweets to the pillars this fall most likely. For now, the poor location is why i am kind of set on a dome though, as i think the off axis response would better lend itself to this app

now i know this is nowhere near optimal, so i am just looking to make the best of whats available

Are the SLS 8's really THAT much better of a midbass than the DLS and Daytons?

[///M5 2,833]

Not really comparable drivers. The SLS is a low end machine, but falls on its face above 200-300hz. The RS is a midrange that can dig pretty deep. The RS is used in a couple 2 way home designs and is geared to be able to do that, the SLS is geared to be a sub that is really light, cost effective, and can stretch on the top. The DLS is somewhere in between, but a heck of a compromise and more money to boot. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Since you are talking 3 way I'd don't see why you'd compromise on any of the drivers. In your case personally, I'd get the SLS and buy a 3 or 4 to slap next to it with the expectations that it will be moved to the kicks. If you tear through the 3, just buy a couple spares. The Aura is a great driver for next to no money. Once you move to the kicks you could put something mean in there like the Scan 12m and have a hell of a setup. Way better than you would if you compromised on the midbass.

[manbeer 0]

Ok, i am going to take your advice and get the SLS. As far as the midrange, i still may get the DLS IR3's and try to cover them or hack the grille since for like 180 dollars they seem to be pretty nice and should be able to cross over around ~350 with no major issues based on the info provided. Even if i get a few extras, i will most likely be running these off a Xenon 200.4, so i'm afraid that would make the Aura (i'm assuming the NS3 is what you were referring to) or the equivalent Hi-Vi B3N unhappy

Specs from the site

Size 2,5" ( 6,3 cm) with rear chamber

Nom. power (RMS) 100 Watts RMS

Maximum power 160 Watts

Frequency range 250 Hz-8000 Hz

Rec. frequency use for 400 Hz - 4500 Hz

active crossover Use HP 18-24 dB slope /oct.

Sensitivity 91 dB / W / m

Resonanst freq. / Fs 280 Hz

X-max +- 0,5 mm

Magnet diameter 80 mm / 3,15

[///M5 2,833]

Ok, i am going to take your advice and get the SLS. As far as the midrange, i still may get the DLS IR3's and try to cover them or hack the grille since for like 180 dollars they seem to be pretty nice and should be able to cross over around ~350 with no major issues based on the info provided. Even if i get a few extras, i will most likely be running these off a Xenon 200.4, so i'm afraid that would make the Aura (i'm assuming the NS3 is what you were referring to) or the equivalent Hi-Vi B3N unhappy

Bridge the 200.4 away. Running a pair of those amps on your front stage should make you happy.

The Ns3's will take way more than you think. Realize their power spec is rated for a frequency range that you won't be playing them in. I figure they were a good recommendation as a temporary fill for really cheap until you can get your kicks made. I am not much a dome mid guy though and would surely rather have the 12m than the IR3.

[manbeer 0]

Maybe i WILL give those aura's a shot then. how is the off axis response of them? worst case scenario i can make a nice set of computer speakers if they don't work well in this app

[///M5 2,833]

There are other choices as well. How long before you build your kicks.

[manbeer 0]

There are other choices as well. How long before you build your kicks.

End of summer to early fall, i just want to be able to bring it to a couple shows without having empty holes in the doors. I was also looking at the HAT L3's since they would be just about a perfect fit, but once again i keep coming back to the domes for the off axis response and the fact that they are chambered which would make this a bit easier...they aren't in a common airspace with the midbass, but at the same time there isn't a whole lot of room behind them before you run into the inner door, where on the midbass side there is obviously a hole there

Edited March 22, 2009 by manbeer

[manbeer 0]

So after a bit more looking around i realized i can fit most normal 4" cones in there, but only have about a half liter of space. Would it greatly affect the response being that i will likely not be playing them below ~250hz anyway? I would think the bottom end is where it would really start to suffer. If thats the case maybe a set of 4" dayton ref's for now?

[///M5 2,833]

Depends on whether or not you want to use the same driver in the summer when you do your kicks. Considering the short amount of time, I'd buy something cheap and used and just sell them when you get closer.

[manbeer 0]

Well the RS100's would end up being under 50 dollars a pair, the specs look good, and since i order from parts express at least twice a month they probably wouldn't add more than a couple bucks to the shipping. How about going with them? They are cheap enough where i don't really care too much, should have no problem crossing over low enough for the SLS's (i am thinking of doing 250hz 3rd order as the low pass on them to start) plus they have the phase plug which (i may have been misguided on this) i was always under the impression helped with off axis response

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=295-378

[///M5 2,833]

I've never seen off axis plots for them, but agree that they could be a sweet solution. Should be easy to sell afterwards and perform more than adequately for what you need. You'll still need a tweeter that can play fairly low as upper end extension is not a facet of the Dayton drivers. I've inferred from other reading that a fairly steep slope at 2.5k is probably near the top end of that driver. I haven't personally heard it, but do have other RS drivers and they are always nice performers for the dollar.

[manbeer 0]

My temp. tweeter solution will be seas neo textiles, everything will be upgraded at the end of the season when i have the time to switch things up a little. Those should be fine to cross at 2500hz, 18db/oct right? i will be using 18db/octave slopes all around to start cause they are the easiest to do with the 4XS

So i am thinking initial x-overs will be 40-250 on the SLS, 250-2500on the RS100's and 2500+ on the neos. That sound like a good starting point?

[95Honda 486]

I can't reccomend much other than the Dayton RS stuff for the price... I have used tons of them, my father is still using a pair of 6" RS 4ohm mids in an active setup. He has been going on with them over 2 years now... They sound great, in fact, I chose them at the time for the promising off-axis performance I had read about... I think the phase plug they have helps a little in that department...

[manbeer 0]

Ordering today. I will also order the SLS and seas neos today. The car broke down again last night so its at the dealer, then after it leaves there it will be going into the body shop in about 2 weeks. When i get it back i'll be adding deadener. I have 36sq ft alloted for the doors to start with and will be picking up some clay.

[///M5 2,833]

I'd underlap the tweet and mid even with those slopes and maybe even between the SLS and RS. Ballpark ranges sound just fine though.

It will be a hell of a setup.

[manbeer 0]

I'm excited, now i can't wait to get the car back. Hopefully it's something simple they can fix tomorrow or i can at least get a loaner.

it's funny how i made a complete 180 since first signing up here almost a year ago. at first i was trying to figure out how i could get the most bass and maximize the amount of volume in the given space. I was looking at 2 12" or 3 10" icons and an SAZ-1500 or 3k even to run them. The components were less important to me so i figured i would get a set of focal K2p or something popular and well regarded and be done with it

Now, i love the idea of a lower powered substage, everyone got me sold on going active, and i just want to pile on the power up front for the extra headroom.

I find it ironic that initially i was going for 1500+ watts to the subs and maybe 300-400 up front, now i'm going for 1500 watts up front and 4 or 500 to the single DCON, which i am more than happy with