Foam sub box lining affecting tuning?

[Outbacksound 1]

I don't always turn it up that loud, mostly because the car sounds terrible. I think I'm going to cover the entire roof, but I can't decide if I should order enough to cover it twice, and have some left over for (maybe) the doors, but probably the hatch too.

[///M5 2,833]

If you have monster roof flex you are going to need to add more than a layer of deadening. Mounting an mdf substructure would help a ton.

oh, and 2 layers won't be a solution then either.

[Outbacksound 1]

An MDF substructure? Would I use pieces (or a large piece with pieces cut out to create a cross bracing) as bracing and affix them with epoxy or something? That does sound like it really would help. Would the other products from Second Skin be useful, or are they meant for doors and the floor?

This post is way off topic, but are the infinity reference 1252W subs better than the Rockford P1's I have? Their stats look better, and they're on sale on crutchfield, I guess because they're the old model. More power handling, more Xmax, rubber surround instead of a "Poly-Foam", greater freq. response, but the sensitivity rating are at 1v for the punch and 2.83v for the infinity. So they look good on paper, but does anyone know how long they last?

And to go off topic even more, what subs/ power/ box type produces bass that makes it hard to breathe? My friend had 2 old infinity 12's in a sealed box that made my heart want to stop. Was it the sealed box? They had like 400 watts going to each one.

That girl is dope as hell by the way M5

Edited October 28, 2009 by Feel The Bass

[ChristianMcKay 1]

I personally don't like Infinity as much solely because they do the thing with the rating. Here's what I suggest since you have P1's in a hatchback.

Rebuild the box except make it sealed. Go with the recommended Vb that RF gives on their website.

Have all 4 subs firing down. It may not add more DB's, but it certainly sounds better to me. Give that a shot and tell me what you think.

[Outbacksound 1]

I personally don't like Infinity as much solely because they do the thing with the rating. Here's what I suggest since you have P1's in a hatchback.

Rebuild the box except make it sealed. Go with the recommended Vb that RF gives on their website.

Have all 4 subs firing down. It may not add more DB's, but it certainly sounds better to me. Give that a shot and tell me what you think.

It's a wagon. I didn't mean hatch- but never the less. I do think i'm going to build a sealed box for these subs, but i don't want to lose any output. I think facing them down would make the floor absorb a lot of the sound, though they would definately sound better. The sealed box will make a deeper but less loud bass, right? The ported box that I built is nice- I would hate to not be using it, which is the only reason i have not built a different box allready. 3/4" MDF with double flared ports and an intricate design i came up with to create the separate chambers. It's not hard, just time consuming, and I would want to do the sealed box the same way. I'd like to try other subs though, and I'd like to build a box I could use for something other than these P1's. But I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on subs. Is Kicker's SQ terrible like everyone says? I've been looking into Fi (BTL series), DD audio, Alpine, and JL audio (though they seem overpriced).

Edited October 28, 2009 by Feel The Bass

[ChristianMcKay 1]

I personally don't like Infinity as much solely because they do the thing with the rating. Here's what I suggest since you have P1's in a hatchback.

Rebuild the box except make it sealed. Go with the recommended Vb that RF gives on their website.

Have all 4 subs firing down. It may not add more DB's, but it certainly sounds better to me. Give that a shot and tell me what you think.

I do think i'm going to build a sealed box for these subs, but i don't want to lose any output. I think facing them down would make the floor absorb a lot of the sound, though they would definately sound better. The sealed box will make a deeper but less loud bass, right? The ported box that I built is nice- I would hate to not be using it, which is the only reason i have not built a different box allready. 3/4" MDF with double flared ports and an intricate design i came up with to create the separate chambers. It's not hard, just time consuming, and I would want to do the sealed box the same way. I'd like to try other subs though, and I'd like to build a box I could use for something other than these P1's. But I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on subs. Is Kicker's SQ terrible like everyone says? I've been looking into Fi (BTL series), DD audio, Alpine, and JL audio (though they seem overpriced).

It won't be as boomy, but trust me, it'll be plenty loud enough. Mine was loud enough to turn heads when I only had two 10's. It will also give you more deep bass. Also, firing into the floor will not absorb bass.

[Outbacksound 1]

Before I build a new box, I want to make sure I shouldn't just sell this setup and get something else. How are the 15" P1's? They might not be the best for double bass, but they might be worth it (they're buy 1 get 1 on crutchfield right now). Have you heard any infinity setups or do you just not like their strange sensitivity ratings? It's going to be 4 of either. I'd rather get the infinitys- they could handle more power, and probably get louder. I guess I'm going for loud before anything else, but I want something that stops easy breathing- and since I've heard and felt that w/ infinity's before, I'm not afraid to go with those. Any opinions on Kicker?

[ChristianMcKay 1]

I've never been impressed with an infinity setup before, personally. If you want some high power handling subs, I would recommend some Fi Q's.

[///M5 2,833]

An MDF substructure? Would I use pieces (or a large piece with pieces cut out to create a cross bracing) as bracing and affix them with epoxy or something? That does sound like it really would help. Would the other products from Second Skin be useful, or are they meant for doors and the floor?

This post is way off topic, but are the infinity reference 1252W subs better than the Rockford P1's I have? Their stats look better, and they're on sale on crutchfield, I guess because they're the old model. More power handling, more Xmax, rubber surround instead of a "Poly-Foam", greater freq. response, but the sensitivity rating are at 1v for the punch and 2.83v for the infinity. So they look good on paper, but does anyone know how long they last?

And to go off topic even more, what subs/ power/ box type produces bass that makes it hard to breathe? My friend had 2 old infinity 12's in a sealed box that made my heart want to stop. Was it the sealed box? They had like 400 watts going to each one.

That girl is dope as hell by the way M5

Personally I'd shop at SDS at not Second Skin. Better advice, super high quality product, and the owner is a helpful part of this forum even though he doesn't have a sub-forum.

I am confused a bit by your other goals. A sealed box will NOT be as loud. No way, no how. I really don't think you are a Q buyer at all either, but I am making assumptions from some of the posts here but I do think they are better ones than others are making. What are you trying to accomplish? What is your current box size and tuning? How did you set your gains...etc. That info and what you don't like will really help.

[Outbacksound 1]

Personally I'd shop at SDS at not Second Skin. Better advice, super high quality product, and the owner is a helpful part of this forum even though he doesn't have a sub-forum.

I am confused a bit by your other goals. A sealed box will NOT be as loud. No way, no how. I really don't think you are a Q buyer at all either, but I am making assumptions from some of the posts here but I do think they are better ones than others are making. What are you trying to accomplish? What is your current box size and tuning? How did you set your gains...etc. That info and what you don't like will really help.

I know a sealed box won't be as loud, but is the bass deeper or lower? My box consists of four separate chambers, 1.805 cu. ft. each, because i couldn't get exactly 1.79 cu. ft., which is the recommended ported size. I had it tuned to 29 Hz, and then i added the lining to the inside of each box. Tuning so low brought out all of the lows that these subs are capable of, but I want it to be lower. I set my gain by turning my headunit up 3/4 of the way up, and playing a couple different types of music, and setting the gain so that the subs were balanced with the speakers. Will bigger subs be lower, or louder? Is the frequency response what determines how low the sub is capable of playing? RF P1 15's are buy one get one free on crutchfield, but the infinity's freq. response is better, and lower. i could save money by getting the infinity's, and that would help me get a better amp. I'm basically going for SPL on a budget; a tight budget. Kicker gets loud, but i heard that they sound bad. I'm seriously contemplating 4 of the infinity's, on my current amp, and save up for (possibly) a JL G-Max 1200 watt Mono block amp to power them. I'll probably get a H.O. alt. and an Optima yellow top to go along with it, but what is the sole diifference between 12's, 15's, and 18's? SPL or Lower frequency?

[///M5 2,833]

Going for SPL and tuning low are counterproductive. What do you listen to that requires said lows?

[Outbacksound 1]

Going for SPL and tuning low are counterproductive. What do you listen to that requires said lows?

Yeah, I didn't mean SPL- I'm not tuning in the high 40's- I do want it to be loud, but not as loud as possible. I listen to rap, and slowed/screwed and chopped stuff. Lows are my top priority. So are bigger subs for lower notes, or more air movement?

[ChristianMcKay 1]

So you want deep bass yet you have a problem with the idea of going sealed.

[crosspug 2]

So you want deep bass yet you have a problem with the idea of going sealed.

Huh??

[ChristianMcKay 1]

Sealed boxes are good for like...30 hz and down since there's no need for a subsonic filter

[crosspug 2]

You can tune a ported box low if you want to (hell like 20hz if you've got the space for the port in a car), and "usually" it will play much louder than the sealed at those low freqs.......

I've got a box tuned to 28hz for my IXL10 (subsonic set to 24/25hz) and that plays chopped and screwed music very well (for a single 10" obviously).

Plus subsonics aren't a "brickwall" filter

Jono

[ChristianMcKay 1]

Yeah, but I thought power handling below the Fs dropped.

[crosspug 2]

Below tuning yes, very much so. Below Fs..... well there seems to be many opinions on that one (I'm on another forum that is having that exact discussion now) and how it can be managed/used creatively.

Jono

[ChristianMcKay 1]

Oh, I'm going to go check that out now.

*edit*

Do you have a link to it?

Edited October 30, 2009 by Christian McKay

[KU40 173]

If you listen to rap, tune to 30 hz or so.

[Outbacksound 1]

If you listen to rap, tune to 30 hz or so.

I started off tuned to 36 Hz. Then I tried 32 Hz, and I found 29 Hz to sound the best. So I guess I like it tuned as low as possible. But I still don't know is larger subs mean deeper bass, or if frequency response is what determines how low a sub will play. I have a low pass filter (non adjustable) on my amp. If I wanted a sub sonic filter, would I need an amp with one built in, or can you hook up one like a crossover?

[jcarter1885 995]

If you listen to rap, tune to 30 hz or so.

I started off tuned to 36 Hz. Then I tried 32 Hz, and I found 29 Hz to sound the best. So I guess I like it tuned as low as possible. But I still don't know is larger subs mean deeper bass, or if frequency response is what determines how low a sub will play. I have a low pass filter (non adjustable) on my amp. If I wanted a sub sonic filter, would I need an amp with one built in, or can you hook up one like a crossover?

They do have external sub sonic filters, I just suggest buying an amp with it already on there. Alot of factors play into deeper bass while the most important one is the enclosure for the subwoofer, sub size doesnt have really play a role just moves more air than a smaller version of the same sub.

[KU40 173]

If you listen to rap, tune to 30 hz or so.

I started off tuned to 36 Hz. Then I tried 32 Hz, and I found 29 Hz to sound the best. So I guess I like it tuned as low as possible. But I still don't know is larger subs mean deeper bass, or if frequency response is what determines how low a sub will play. I have a low pass filter (non adjustable) on my amp. If I wanted a sub sonic filter, would I need an amp with one built in, or can you hook up one like a crossover?

They do have external sub sonic filters, I just suggest buying an amp with it already on there. Alot of factors play into deeper bass while the most important one is the enclosure for the subwoofer, sub size doesnt have really play a role just moves more air than a smaller version of the same sub.

Although increased displacement helps play low. It takes more excursion/displacement to play as loud as you get lower frequency. Plus generally larger diameter subs have lower Fs relative to their smaller counterparts, which can help as well. However I would agree that enclosure plays as big of a part as all these things in low frequency extension.

[Outbacksound 1]

So of these two subs, which would produce better lows, in what kind of box?  4 of the infinity's or 2 of the RF P1 15's.  I don't think I can fit 4 of the 15's in my car, but I might get 4 and do the math and figure it out. I like the infinity's, but 15's sound like they would be awesome to try out. Today, 10/31/09, crutchfield is ending a discount of $20 off an order of $100 or more, so I want to order them today, save a couple bucks.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1081252W/Infinity-Reference-1252w.html?tp=111&tab=review&rvm=ShowAllt

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_575P1S415/Rockford-Fosgate-P1S415.html?tp=111

How do I get bass that makes you not able to breathe? I can't figure that out. I think the 4 15's might do that. But the infinity's would run me $100 less. I want to set off car alarms, but I want to tune low or have large sealed boxes so the lows are more prominent than anything else.

[ChristianMcKay 1]

Those infinity's look really cheap to me.