T/S parameters for small vented enclosure design

[edouble101 314]

I am shopping for two 12" subwoofers that will work well in a small vented enclosure. I would like the net volume to be 4^3 ft. or less (net meaning not including driver, material or port displacement).

Some other requirements are:

~2000wrms per driver

~low f3

~daily setup, music only

~enclosure tune to 30-32 hz with a 60-80hz xover point

~I mostly listen to rap

I am considering having custom subwoofers built if needed.

What are "ideal" T/S parameters based on my preferences?

[Duran 387]

The system will be extremely inefficient...

[edouble101 314]

Any seasoned enclosure builders that can help me out with this?

[///M5 2,833]

Curious what you don't like about the drivers offered here for that application? Screams Xcon generically speaking. I don't like to be generic, but considering you are just wondering about drivers for that box it would work and they will all be similar in make up. .....glad you added the net....

[edouble101 314]

Curious what you don't like about the drivers offered here for that application? Screams Xcon generically speaking. I don't like to be generic, but considering you are just wondering about drivers for that box it would work and they will all be similar in make up. .....glad you added the net....

I currently own an XCON 15 in 4^3 net. The enclosure was not built to fit the vehicle and maximize cargo area. I want to build a new enclosure to maximize cargo area. I have a dedicated +3000wrms substage amplifier. Since I am building a new subwoofer enclosure I decided to also upgrade subwoofer drivers to use the available power that I have.

I am trying to understand subwoofer parameters better so I do not make more mistakes with driver and enclosure selection. I decided to go with 2 12" subwoofers which will maximize cone area for my application (trunk enclosure, forward firing subwoofers). I choose a vented enclosure for the nice gain in efficency.

I am seeking subwoofer system that had high output capabilities based on my "requirments", ie. box size, 3500wrms

SSA drivers are great but I want to make sure that I make the correct driver purchase so I do not have to do this again anytime soon.

I hope I am making sense

[///M5 2,833]

You can always sacrifice frequency response for output, where you choose in the compromise is up to you. That being said, is there something about your current Xcon (besides output) you want to improve?

Btw, there is no one or few T/S parameters you can look at and know it is right which is why no one answered at first.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

For the sub stick with an xcon. There is nothing anywhere near the same price point that compresses as much air while sounding damn good. As far as having one "custom built" that aint gonna happen. And before anyone says "well I can send in my motor to so and so and...........". Nope all they gonna do is take an off the shelf cone, off the shelf edge, off the shelf coil, and off the shelf spider to match something up close to what should sound good. Take advantage of Scott's humpteen years of FEA'ing, designing, and building subs and get what is proving to work.

And for the box, two 12's in a small properly built enclosure will be the same size if not a little larger than the one you have now. Surely you can alter the deminsions but it will still take up as much volume. And since you already stated you don't know much who ever builds the enclosure DO NOT say I want it tuned to 30-32 hertz if what you are looking for is a low F3. It is very well possible to build an enclosure with a higher F3 than the tuning frequency. But we're not gonna get into that.

So I say two xcon 12's

And without doing any modeling. 1.75-1.85 net 14 inches of port per sub tuned around 27 to 28 should end up with F3 around 27ish. But that's off the top of my head

[edouble101 314]

Ugh that's what I thought you would say I was hoping to hear something like "a low fs, high bl, qts between .35&.45, vas smaller than vb....".

I am very pleased with the XCON. Actually if my new substage "sounded" the same but was louder that would be a win/win. By redesigning the substage and using the available power that I have I would be disappointed if it wasn't louder too.

So if t/s parameters are not the measurements that are used when selecting substage drivers than what is?

[edouble101 314]

For the sub stick with an xcon. There is nothing anywhere near the same price point that compresses as much air while sounding damn good. As far as having one "custom built" that aint gonna happen. And before anyone says "well I can send in my motor to so and so and...........". Nope all they gonna do is take an off the shelf cone, off the shelf edge, off the shelf coil, and off the shelf spider to match something up close to what should sound good. Take advantage of Scott's humpteen years of FEA'ing, designing, and building subs and get what is proving to work.

And for the box, two 12's in a small properly built enclosure will be the same size if not a little larger than the one you have now. Surely you can alter the deminsions but it will still take up as much volume. And since you already stated you don't know much who ever builds the enclosure DO NOT say I want it tuned to 30-32 hertz if what you are looking for is a low F3. It is very well possible to build an enclosure with a higher F3 than the tuning frequency. But we're not gonna get into that.

So I say two xcon 12's

And without doing any modeling. 1.75-1.85 net 14 inches of port per sub tuned around 27 to 28 should end up with F3 around 27ish. But that's off the top of my head

Thank you for your input.

My current enclosure is 4^3 net, I kinda expect an enclosure for 2 12"s to be the same. BUT! This time I am going to build the enclosure to "fit" my vehicle rather than a rectangular box. This way I will have more cargo room because the enclosure will appear smaller. I will build the enclosure in the trunk if needed.

Thans again, and M5

[///M5 2,833]

So if t/s parameters are not the measurements that are used when selecting substage drivers than what is?

Lol, never said that. Just not any one or a small subset of them.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

I say it like that because 99.99999999999999999999999% of people cannot get around the fact that T/S parameters are for picking and designing transducers that you will actually listen to music with. There is no phisical way you can "listen" to music with 3000 watts in a car.

1. Your sub stage is in a trunk. It is going to mask and color every bit of sound going into the cabin. If you were to take a DCON and play it below xmax meaning below destortion. The remove it, slap in a XCON and adjust the gain down so that it puts out the same level of sound (db) as the DCON you will not be able to phisically hear the difference. The key word is keeping the DCON below distortion.

2. Being your set up is in the trunk and you have an ungodly amount of power going to your sub at listening level there are a few things you need to look at.

A. Does the sub have adequate cooling and thermal rating at your power rating.

B. Can your sub really take xxx amount of power and stay below xmax in your given enclosure . Because anything over xmax is just distortion

and that would defeat the purpose of the highend "SQ" sub.

C. Does the sub have enough motor force to overcome it's own suspension and power compression to fully control the cone to prevent odd cone

movements.

If your sub stage was going in a open location where you had direct line of sight of the sub and played at a level where the listening area didn't vibrate as much as your ear drums, lots of other things come in to play. Like colorness from cone material, rub and buzz, physical placement of the set up itself.

All in all damn near every speaker can sound good. However T/S parameters are modefied depending on the environment and enclosure they are going in. I would recomend getting a copy of the loud speaker cook book. Also download a free box calcualator and insert polar opposite drivers in the same enclosure and see what the results are.

[edouble101 314]

I say it like that because 99.99999999999999999999999% of people cannot get around the fact that T/S parameters are for picking and designing transducers that you will actually listen to music with. There is no phisical way you can "listen" to music with 3000 watts in a car.

1. Your sub stage is in a trunk. It is going to mask and color every bit of sound going into the cabin. If you were to take a DCON and play it below xmax meaning below destortion. The remove it, slap in a XCON and adjust the gain down so that it puts out the same level of sound (db) as the DCON you will not be able to phisically hear the difference. The key word is keeping the DCON below distortion.

2. Being your set up is in the trunk and you have an ungodly amount of power going to your sub at listening level there are a few things you need to look at.

A. Does the sub have adequate cooling and thermal rating at your power rating.

I have my amplifier adjusted as precisely as I can. I am trusting the subwoofer is engineered to handle rated power.

B. Can your sub really take xxx amount of power and stay below xmax in your given enclosure . Because anything over xmax is just distortion

and that would defeat the purpose of the highend "SQ" sub.

I do not "hear" any distortion

C. Does the sub have enough motor force to overcome it's own suspension and power compression to fully control the cone to prevent odd cone

movements.

Again I am trusting that it does.

If your sub stage was going in a open location where you had direct line of sight of the sub and played at a level where the listening area didn't vibrate as much as your ear drums, lots of other things come in to play. Like colorness from cone material, rub and buzz, physical placement of the set up itself.

All in all damn near every speaker can sound good. However T/S parameters are modefied depending on the environment and enclosure they are going in. I would recomend getting a copy of the loud speaker cook book. Also download a free box calcualator and insert polar opposite drivers in the same enclosure and see what the results are.

Thank you. I wanted to buy The Loudspeaker Design Cook Book two weekends ago but I didn't. I will read it ASAP.