2 sa-10's or 1 fi q 12?

[teoulennon 0]

I currently have 1 sa-10 @ 600rms in a sealed box and am looking to go a little louder.

I plan on lowering my amp (massive audio n3) to 1 ohm to get up to 1400rms.

I'm debating on whether to get 1 12" fi Q (1500rms) or to just add another sa-10 (600rms each).

They will be put in a sealed box (pls don't suggest a ported box, I'm not interested )

Thoughts?

[Truconcept 58]

Q is more of a low end sub and i do not think you will be very happy sealed

I believe in more cone area over watts so my opinion is go with the two SA

How long have you had your sa? is it fully broke in?

Idk about mixing an unbroken in sundown with one thats broke in tbh

Why the 12? why not two fiQ 10's?

[teoulennon 0]

By low end do you mean frequencies? I don't consider the Q a low end sub in terms of quality.

I've heard nothing but good things about the Q in sealed boxes..more so than the sa actually. Jacob states that 95% of sa buyers go ported.

I was originally going to replace the sa with the Q because at certain frequencies the sa had hardly any output (I think it's just the way the sub performs in a sealed box) but I figured just adding another one would solve the problem.

I've had the sa about 3 weeks now.

I'd love to go with two Q 10's but that would require twice the cost...and power to get the most out of them

[Truconcept 58]

im sorry for my mistake with the Q being low end

i just imagine to get the best out of it sealed your box would have to be huge

if you were to get the 12 Q, wouldnt your new sundown be a waste of money?

i would just get another

im wondering what you have against ported?

[teoulennon 0]

The recommended enclosure size for the Q is .8-1.5ft^3 so pretty small.

I would sell the sundown, it wouldn't be too much of a loss.

I'm not interested in ported because my enclosure is limited to a size of 1.3ft^3 max and I don't have the time nor the expertise to make a ported box that can sound "just as good as sealed" when it comes to accurate, tight bass you may find in rock music.

Edited February 1, 2013 by teoulennon

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Model both set up's in WinISd. It won't account for cabin gain or other variables but will give you a close idea of what would be louder.

[teoulennon 0]

I wish I could Quentin, I'm on a mac and don't have access to a pc

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Post ur two different set up options with power and volume and ill post the gain and SPL graphs for u

[teoulennon 0]

Great! I hope I'm giving what you're asking for..

2 sa-10's

1.0ft^3 sealed

Re: 4.29 ohms

Fs: 35.4 Hz

VAS: 10.13 L

Qes: 0.52

Qms: 5.41

Qts: 0.48

Le: 3.41 mH

BL: 20.40 NA

Mms: 230 g

Sens: 81.0

Xmax: 19mm

RMS: 600 Watts each (Can go up to 1400rms total)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 fi Q 12"

1.2ft^3 sealed

Fs: 33.9hz

Re 1.4 ohms/coil

Qms: 7.69

Qes: .39

Qts: .37

Mms: 253g

Cms 0.87mm/N

Sd: 481cm^2

Vas: 28.3

Spl: 86.3dB 1w/1m

Bl: 19.65 N/A

Xmax: 28mm

Rms: 1500w (But I'd be running 1400w)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm also interested in the fi X, which I hear is great sealed.

I could do 1 or 2 of these, a model of just one and a second model of two would be fantastic if possible :)/>/>/>

I'm not sure of the exact preferred size sealed box for these, but the fi recommended is .5ft^3 to 1.5ft^3

1 fi X 12 - limited to a box size of 1.3ft^3

2 fi X 12's - limited to a box size of 1.3ft^3

Fs: 31.6hz

Re: 2.8 ohms/coil

Qms: 6.51

Qes: .51

Qts: .47

Mms: 181.2g

Cms: 0.00mm/N

Sd: 480cm^2

Vas: 46.1

Spl: 86.3db 1w/1m

Bl: 19.81 N/A

Xmax: 20mm

Rms: 750 (but I'd be running 700w to one OR 1400w if running two)

Thanks

Edited February 1, 2013 by teoulennon

[teoulennon 0]

Scratch the option of 2 fi X's, I've learned that I most likely don't have the space for 2.

[kendall64 0]

what frequencies are you not hitting? High frequencies or low? from my experience when i had a ten a ported box played lower and sealed played higher. i had a 12 in a sealed box and i liked it a lot better than the ten in a sealed box. im not an expert but i have been in the same boat as you.

[teoulennon 0]

The higher frequencies found in rock and some dance music. I'm not talking about midbass.

It doesn't do too bad at lower frequencies actually.

I also had a 12" sealed that I enjoyed much more.

Edited February 1, 2013 by teoulennon

[kendall64 0]

well if you enjoyed the 12 much more then i would go with the Fi Q. maybe try an aero port in the box you have with the 10 before you buy another sub they aren't that hard to put in. I have had 4 12's and i made 4 different boxes before i got the sound i liked. a lot on trial and error goes into it to get the outcome you want. Either way you go 2 10 or 1 12 it should be louder.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

The SA's just aren't that awesome in a sealed enclosure. I ran them in both sealed and ported. The SA and Q are really different drivers. The X is even more different. Comparing all three is kind of like comparing a SUV to a Sedan to a Pick Up Truck.

Just because you liked one 12" subwoofer sealed doesn't mean you'll like all of them sealed. The diameter of subwoofer has no mandate over which frequencies it plays better. The larger the diameter will yield more output. It seems like you are pretty stuck with running sealed, i assume you have your reasons. If you're limited to running sealed and the drivers you listed, the Q with the high qts would be my choice.

[teoulennon 0]

Thanks for the input guys.

Jake, do you have any experience with the X?

Someone modeled with it and came up with this:

"I'd suggest a Fi X with BP option, or a SSA Icon. Both of them should sound better than the Q in a sealed box. Modeling shows that the Q would get louder in the 70+hz region with a lot of power. But the X and Icon will hit the lows better with less power. It's because they're more tailored to sealed boxes.

Based on the model I have, the X would give about 3dB more output there, and the Icon would give about 2dB more output given the same power.

The X is really a fantastic sub for sealed enclosures. It's maximum output potential is about 1dB less than the Icon, but requires one third less power. It has the same output potential as the Q below 70hz and requires half the power! If it were me, I'd save the money and buy the X with BP option. Ideal enclosure size is 1.5cf or 1.25cf stuffed lightly with polyfill."

Thoughts?

[Frostedflakejake 148]

Modeled it and got somewhat similar responses. Not exactly the same, but mine still prevailed the X as as on top. I.E, i was wrong.

However, like Quentin stated, WinISd for comparing drivers like this is a guess at best. Also, we don't know the specs of the Q with the high QTS option, which will also change other factors. So that's a complete different ball game.

Still, I completely revoke my previous statement. I would do the X for basically the same reasons listed above. Just remember to not put so much faith in these modeling programs. Sorry for my previous lazy response.

[ricksi30 923]

Q with high qts or ICON. I do not like the SA in a sealed application.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

I do not like the SA in a sealed application.

I'd like to meet the guy that does!

[ricksi30 923]

I do not like the SA in a sealed application.

I'd like to meet the guy that does! :P/>

Haha ported at it's price point it is badass, but when I tried my three 10's sealed I was VERY disappointed. I've also listened to a few setups with the 12's sealed and was not impressed.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

Haha ported at it's price point it is badass, but when I tried my three 10's sealed I was VERY disappointed. I've also listened to a few setups with the 12's sealed and was not impressed.

Same thing for my 15"s when I had them. Complete different monster ported!

[dbsupra 69]

Have you considered a passive radiator instead of ported?

I would rather have a sub more suited to sealed than sticking in yet another sub that isn't.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

This is per your enclosures and power. Red is the Fi yellow are the sa's

[teoulennon 0]

Fantastic guys thanks!

I've emailed Fi about getting t/s parameters for the Q w/ the high qts option, we'll see what they say.

I've emailed them a question before and never received a response so hopefully they come through this time.

Dbsupra: I honestly don't know anything about passive radiators, I'll have to check them out. Thanks for the suggestion.

Edited February 4, 2013 by teoulennon