Best X-over frequency?

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

Was trying to see whats the best frequency to set on my alpine mrx-f35 amp. for the alpine type R 6.5's, i listen to alot of r&b and Rap. i like to play them at high volume but with good clarity, my current eq settings (avic z2 HU) and amp settings, they sound slightly harsh or "Screechy" at hi volumes

 

[///M5 2,833]

Depends on what you are trying to accomplish

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

more clarity at hi volume, i guess id say the midrange to Hi's, i dont have any subs, i plan on taking one of the systems out of my other cars soon as i have the time, 15hr work days suck. if that didnt help maybe you can be more specific for me to better answer that.

[Impious 1,476]

The highpass crossover frequency probably isn't going to help with the issue you are having, unless you are completely overdriving the speaker with the current crossover setting.

 

Where do you have it set now?  Do you have any issues with the midbass sounding stressed or strained? 

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

stressed or strained, i dont think so, slightly distorted, not much, they dont seem to stress tho, i have them around 120hz on the amp, and on the eq off top of my head i think the mid is at 1khz, +6 and the highs is at either 3.15hz or 8khz +2 or 0.  

[///M5 2,833]

What needs more clarity? ie, what instrument, what is it doing, what do you mean by not clear...

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

instrument i cant really say, but to the ear, overall they just dont sound as clear or crisp as i know they can.  i wouldnt say muffled, but at high volume, minus the small distortion, it doesnt seem very "vocal" across the spectrum. the lows arent very present, which im ok with, the mids at high volume seem "lackluster" like they dont sound very full in regards to the persons voice, and the highs or tweet sound harsh if the eq is anything over 0-+2, n distorted around that area. is that a better description?

Edited April 4, 2013 by BatmanJl

[///M5 2,833]

Your idea of high could be anything and so with low. You need to spend more time determining what you don't like before it can be improved.

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

i know what im expecting or want to hear, im having trouble putting it into words. but after an evening of blasting the radio, id say at hi volume, they kinda flood. can still hearem, but the mids sound like its to much, i was also thinking, maybe thes the eq? on my HU i have hp filter on 125hz, n the eq, lows at -12 160hz, mids +4 1khz and highs +2 8khz, and the eq xover on the amp at 120. think i need to change some eq setings? i didnt have much of an issue with the same HU in another car but with infity speakers, and them memphic mclass i wish i was able to be more descriptive od wat im trying to say :/

[///M5 2,833]

Try using the eq's to cut frequencies and see if you find a range that helps.

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

I think that may be the right thing to do, but im unsure of the best tweeks. maybe a better question would be, to hear the music's artist and vocals "crystal" clear what are the best eq settings, but wouldnt that be hard to answer considering diffrent HU's have different eq types and etc?

[Impious 1,476]

How many bands is your EQ and is it graphic or parametric?  And what are the center frequencies?

 

Having both xovers at ~120hz plus a -12db EQ adjustment at 160hz seems excessive to me.

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

i think its a 3band parametric.

 

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/GPS-Navigation/AVIC-Z2 thats what i have.

 

i did notice earlier i had the loud on, i always have in everycar. i turned it off.

it also has sterio imaging options. mines set on dynamic theater, hp filter at 125hz, lows 160hz-12 , mids 1khz +6, highs 6khz +2

loud off.

 and when u word it like that it does seem excessive.

[///M5 2,833]

I am not recommending you do this alone, but

Personally I'd shut off the HP completely (ie turn it off on one and down to 50Hz or so on the headunit). Then listen for stress. Keep turning up the crossover frequency until the stress goes away. Pick music that is abusive to the mids while you are listening and shut off your sub.

BEFORE doing that, turn ALL eq's to flat. Your setup sounds like hell since you are boosting 6dB at random frequencies. Adjust the crossover first and THEN start to CUT different frequencies and listen to what it does. When you find the frequencies that are troubling and things get better use that as your center point. Every car, every installation, every speaker all need UNIQUE equalizer settings. Doing something random like you have is just going to result in a mess.

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

Im fine with doing it myself ive been using a couple of r&b songs that have alot of high notes, and ver vocal, so i think i got the right songs to use for that. but to make sure i understand you correctly, turn the HP off on my HU, and start adjustments from the back? i turned the hp off yesterday and it sounded stress fa sure, but i didnt adjust the other eq settings  at thatt time, i was just playing around with the staging feature. and i dont have my sub in at the moment either just fyi. when i put them in, itll be 4 MTX 9500's or Memphis Mojo's tho(i have both), idk if that changes the tuning or anything. and also you are saying cut the HP off on the amp as well?

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

And should the Loud be turned off as well? and also what about the Source Level?

[Impious 1,476]

The "loudness" and "source level" should be set where ever you would normally have them set.  I'd recommend the Loudness be off and the SLA where ever works for you, just don't go crazy with it.

 

While it's not technically wrong to use the HPF on both the amp & HU, it's not necessary.  Just use one and use which ever is easiest for you.  M5 was saying to turn them both off, and then gradually raise the HPF (which ever one you choose to use) until the response/sound is acceptable.  Just be VERY careful with the volume as you can mechanically damage the drivers while the highpass is off or set to a low frequency.

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

True, i would never crank the volume while the HP is off. i learned my lesson on that long ago haha. but on the SLA, tbh on the 3 Avic Z2's i have, and the 4yrs ive had them, they have always been +8 at the max when i didnt or dont have an amp running. so i guess i could tke it back down to normal 0 flat. its possible that would "flood" the mids would it not? and by opinion which HP would be more ideal to use? id assume the amps since its more variable than the HU's preset (50,80,125hz) also, gain settings, i never asked because i feel they are in a good spot (around 1o clock) and outta 45 i never turn my radio up passed 11.  is that backwards? should i reduce gain and increase HU volume? and whats a general setting for "extreme" midranges? not so much as the midbass, but slightly above them to produce that type of clarity. in anyones opinion, i know it varies by music type, and ears, just looking for a more clear starting point

[AXEHAMMER 16]

Just my personal opinion on the gains. I would definatly go louder with the radio and back off on the gains. Just for the reason you will not be stressing your amp NEAR as much. As it is now, you are showing it very little voltage and asking it to amplify it greatly. As to turning your deck up would allow it to send closer to rated voltage, therefore, you can turn your gains way down and your equipment should last longer and sound better. if your deck goes to 45 I would set gains with volume at around 30 that way the deck isn't clipping but is sending good voltage to amp.

[Impious 1,476]

The amp would work exactly the same amount.  The amount of actual "gain" an amplifier applies is generally a fixed amount.  All the input sensitivity (gain knob) does is adjust the level of the input signal so that after the fixed amount of gain is applied the amplifier is (ideally) generating full power without clipping. 

 

That said you generally want the gain in the system as early as possible, so yes you want to maximize the range of volume you have available at the headunit and go with a lower gain setting at the amplifier.  This will give you more control over the volume for tracks recorded at varying levels and the music won't get as loud as quickly giving you more general control of the system volume level.

 

The SLA simply adjusts the level of the output of sources compared to the radio (IIRC).  So if you set the gain with the SLA at +8 on CD then the preamps will probably clip earlier in the volume range, so take that into consideration.  I would leave it on the lowest setting you can handle.

 

Personally I would use the HPF in the HU so it's easier for you to set since you can set it from the drivers seat while listening to the speakers rather than running back & forth to the amp.  If you find yourself unhappy with the options after listening to them then switch to the amp's xover, but the HU should be sufficient.

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

I hadnt got a chance to mess with the gains yet, as ive been busy at work and just playing with the HU during breaks, but using just the Amps HP and not the HU's, and messing with the eq, with no loud on, no staging, or SLA it seems like the midrange/midbass is stressing, not alot of distortion, not more than it already had at higher volumes, but it sounds to be taking on to much without Both HP's on.

[///M5 2,833]

What is the sound of stress to you?

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

Borderline of possibly popping at lower frenquencies. distortion on those midbass notes, idk if telling u the song(s) i tested them with would make a diff so you could possibly  get a feel for i guess which notes or instruments seem to be stressing. and slightly garbled at lower requency, but even turning the x-over up to over 180 it kinda sounded the same at hi volume as far as the stress goes.

[Impious 1,476]

How are the speakers installed?  I've never had a set of 6.5" speakers that couldn't handle an ~80hz HPF with a decent slope at a pretty stout listening level.

[Exclusiveastheycome Lewis 0]

Just in the factory place. im in the process of trying to design and make a baffle for them and etc, but as of now, just the factory place. at lower volume theyr fine, well because its low volume, but medium to high changes things dramatically. also i forgot to note, that im not using my HU's outputs, as they have went out over the years. im using 2 line out put convertors ( pac ) to my 4channel. idk if that makes a difference for opinions. and just to recap they are Apline type R's. im goingto play with the gains today as well