New alternator or ..??

[riored4v 8]

Going to start a new thread for this, but it kind of piggyback's off my previous battery thread.
 

Got my stereo up and running but was noticing some dimming of the lights both internally and externally. Initially was thinking of just upgrading the battery.  I took out my DMM and at the battery it was showing 14.0 and right about 14.0 at the amp (might have been 13.9). So all seemed fine, but then I started to turn it up a bit and was noticing on heavy bass hits it was going down to as low as 12.2v. The gain on the amp is a little under 75% and the HU volume at the time was right around 75%. I'm wanting to turn the gain up more on the amp since it sounds like the sub is still capable of taking more, but until I can figure out the voltage drop, i'm not going to touch it.

Quick background:
2012 Mustang
Audioque 1200d amp running at 1ohm (1200 rms)
SSA ICON sub wired 1ohm
1/0 Knu CCA wiring to a dist block, with 4g coming out of it to the amp
Stock battery and alternator (either 110 or 130amp)

I was considering upgrading the alternator with a 170 or 240amp Mechman unit, but I just want to make sure that's the correct route to go before dropping the money for it.

Thanks!

[djjdnap 78]

stock is 135 I think

i'd try a smaller pulley first

 

135*12 is still  around 1600w

Extra batt wouldn't hurt

 

does is dim while driving or just at the light/while on and parked

[riored4v 8]

It dims while driving as well, but without having an extra set of hands, trying to use my DMM while driving is pretty difficult lol.  So unfortunately for now, all I have is the numbers of what it reads at idle.

 

Definitely trying to avoid a second battery as I dont really want to add in that kind of weight.

[djjdnap 78]

you can get a cheap cigarette lighter voltage reader

[riored4v 8]

you can get a cheap cigarette lighter voltage reader

 

 

I thought the voltage is best measured at the amp?

[MikeMartel 64]

Well it is.. But that will give you a general idea..   And also, no need to turn your gain up because you can think it can take more.. 75% gain is typically very high and unless you know what to listen for you can end up severely clipping your sub and end up wrecking it. 

[nadcicle 77]

Just curious what type of head unit you are using since you mentioned having the amp at around 75%.

 

Just cause you feel the sub can take more doesn't mean the amp is willing to dish it without heavy clipping which could be causing those voltage spikes.

[riored4v 8]

Just curious what type of head unit you are using since you mentioned having the amp at around 75%.

 

Just cause you feel the sub can take more doesn't mean the amp is willing to dish it without heavy clipping which could be causing those voltage spikes.

 

Its the stock headunit.  Amp is hooked up through a LC6i.

 

 

Well it is.. But that will give you a general idea..   And also, no need to turn your gain up because you can think it can take more.. 75% gain is typically very high and unless you know what to listen for you can end up severely clipping your sub and end up wrecking it. 

 

Thanks guys for the help.  Obviously am trying to avoid wrecking anything, which was the main reason for not wanting to go higher.  When I had talked to Audioque they were implying the amp was capable of going full gain/power if supplied the proper power...  so I guess thats where I was thinking I could go higher.  Right now, the amp is still set where it was when I had my IDQ paired with it.

 

Maybe I can see if I can get someone to ride along to see where my volts are at while driving.

[riored4v 8]

Random thought... but would it work out better to turn the Main Output Level on the LC6i up, so that I could turn the gain on the amp down?  Would that help with voltage drops?

[nadcicle 77]

Random thought... but would it work out better to turn the Main Output Level on the LC6i up, so that I could turn the gain on the amp down?  Would that help with voltage drops?

 

Actually yes it would as it processes the sound better. In this case from the tech specs the LC6i is capable up to 9.5v out or somewhere around there. You would go up to audible distortion on the LC6i and back down a bit and then set the gain on the amp itself by ear. Higher pre-out voltage from the LC6i should take a bit of strain off of the amp if the tech sheet im reading is indeed correct.

 

http://www.sound-better.net/Support/Manuals/Autosound/LC6i_OM.pdf

[nadcicle 77]

Random thought... but would it work out better to turn the Main Output Level on the LC6i up, so that I could turn the gain on the amp down?  Would that help with voltage drops?

 

Actually yes it would as it processes the sound better. In this case from the tech specs the LC6i is capable up to 9.5v out or somewhere around there. You would go up to audible distortion on the LC6i and back down a bit and then set the gain on the amp itself by ear. Higher pre-out voltage from the LC6i should take a bit of strain off of the amp if the tech sheet im reading is indeed correct.

 

http://www.sound-better.net/Support/Manuals/Autosound/LC6i_OM.pdf

 

I should add to be careful as the AQ/soundqubed has a max voltage of 9v to begin with so try not to max the LC6i.

[riored4v 8]

With the LC6i, it says to unplug the RCA's while adjusting the levels on it to the max volume for the speakers.  So I guess how would I set it until there was audible distortion? 

[nadcicle 77]

With the LC6i, it says to unplug the RCA's while adjusting the levels on it to the max volume for the speakers.  So I guess how would I set it until there was audible distortion? 

In the quick installation instructions i just linked it says to gain match. Usually the way to do such is to hook things up and try to set as close visibly as possible and then by ear for minor adjustments. 

 

1. Physically mount the LC6i in a location that keeps it away from 

soda spills, food crumbs, and curious fingers. You will want to select a 

location that allows you access to the level controls. In many cases you 

can find factory speaker leads in the rear of the vehicle that are easy to 

access.

2. The LC6i needs to be installed in the signal path between your OEM 

source unit or factory-installed amplifier(s) and an aftermarket external 

amplifier and/or processor(s). Locate the speaker wires that are coming 

from your factory source unit and/or amplifier and connect them to the 

speaker-level inputs on your LC6i.

3. Connect the Output RCA connectors to cables that run to your aftermarket external signal processors and/or amplifiers. If this is not obvious 

to you, quickly pack up your LC6i and run to your nearest authorized 

AudioControl dealer to have them perform the installation. You will 

thank us later. ( This is actually in the manual lol)

4. Connect +12 power, ground, and remote turn-on (if applicable).

5. Level match your LC6i to your source and amplifiers.

Note: You will want to turn the gains DOWN on your aftermarket amplifiers to maximize your systems performance and minimize any HISS.

[nadcicle 77]

With the LC6i, it says to unplug the RCA's while adjusting the levels on it to the max volume for the speakers.  So I guess how would I set it until there was audible distortion? 

In the quick installation instructions i just linked it says to gain match. Usually the way to do such is to hook things up and try to set as close visibly as possible and then by ear for minor adjustments. 

 

1. Physically mount the LC6i in a location that keeps it away from 

soda spills, food crumbs, and curious fingers. You will want to select a 

location that allows you access to the level controls. In many cases you 

can find factory speaker leads in the rear of the vehicle that are easy to 

access.

2. The LC6i needs to be installed in the signal path between your OEM 

source unit or factory-installed amplifier(s) and an aftermarket external 

amplifier and/or processor(s). Locate the speaker wires that are coming 

from your factory source unit and/or amplifier and connect them to the 

speaker-level inputs on your LC6i.

3. Connect the Output RCA connectors to cables that run to your aftermarket external signal processors and/or amplifiers. If this is not obvious 

to you, quickly pack up your LC6i and run to your nearest authorized 

AudioControl dealer to have them perform the installation. You will 

thank us later. ( This is actually in the manual lol)

4. Connect +12 power, ground, and remote turn-on (if applicable).

5. Level match your LC6i to your source and amplifiers.

Note: You will want to turn the gains DOWN on your aftermarket amplifiers to maximize your systems performance and minimize any HISS.

I recommend the by the ear method instead of disconnecting the RCA's but whateva

 

Level Matching

If you have ever listened to a friend’s “killer” car audio system and 

heard lots of hiss, clicks or pops, then you may have experienced an improperly level-matched system. When a performance autosound system 

is properly level matched, you should get the maximum output from your 

source unit and amplifiers without any clipping or that annoying hiss! 

The following steps will help you through the process, although at the 

end of the day, your ears will be your guides!

1. Set your source unit’s fader and balance controls to their center positions. If your source unit has subwoofer output (and you are using it), set 

the output level at minimum.

2. Disconnect the RCA cables between your LC6i and the amplifier(s). 

Otherwise get some earplugs.

3. Start playing some dynamic music and set the volume on your 

source unit to about 3/4 of maximum. You should not be hearing anything at this point as the amplifiers are unplugged. If you are hearing 

music, go back to step #2; if you are hearing voices go see a doctor!

4. Adjust the output level controls until the “Maximized” light starts 

to flicker. If the Maximized LED does not come on but you are hearing 

music, fear not. The signal level from your source unit is probably not 

sufficient enough to trigger the LED. Do not worry, proceed on.

5. Set the input gains on the amplifier(s) at minimum! This is known 

as turning down your gains.

6. Double check that you performed Step #5!

7. Decrease the volume control on your source unit and re-connect the 

RCA’s between the LC6i and the external amplifier(s).

8. Now increase the volume on your source unit to your normal listening level. For some of you, this may be louder than others!

9. At this point you may find yourself going back and adjusting the 

Output Level controls on your LC6i to balance the front, rear, and subwoofer sections of your system to accommodate speaker placement and 

efficiency. Speakers on the rear deck of your car will probably sound 

louder that the ones in your doors!

[ChadS13TDI 16]

 

 

Level Matching

If you have ever listened to a friend’s “killer” car audio system and 

heard lots of hiss, clicks or pops, then you may have experienced an improperly level-matched system. When a performance autosound system 

is properly level matched, you should get the maximum output from your 

source unit and amplifiers without any clipping or that annoying hiss! 

The following steps will help you through the process, although at the 

end of the day, your ears will be your guides!

1. Set your source unit’s fader and balance controls to their center positions. If your source unit has subwoofer output (and you are using it), set 

the output level at minimum.

2. Disconnect the RCA cables between your LC6i and the amplifier(s). 

Otherwise get some earplugs.

3. Start playing some dynamic music and set the volume on your 

source unit to about 3/4 of maximum. You should not be hearing anything at this point as the amplifiers are unplugged. If you are hearing 

music, go back to step #2; if you are hearing voices go see a doctor!

4. Adjust the output level controls until the “Maximized” light starts 

to flicker. If the Maximized LED does not come on but you are hearing 

music, fear not. The signal level from your source unit is probably not 

sufficient enough to trigger the LED. Do not worry, proceed on.

5. Set the input gains on the amplifier(s) at minimum! This is known 

as turning down your gains.

6. Double check that you performed Step #5!

7. Decrease the volume control on your source unit and re-connect the 

RCA’s between the LC6i and the external amplifier(s).

8. Now increase the volume on your source unit to your normal listening level. For some of you, this may be louder than others!

9. At this point you may find yourself going back and adjusting the 

Output Level controls on your LC6i to balance the front, rear, and subwoofer sections of your system to accommodate speaker placement and 

efficiency. Speakers on the rear deck of your car will probably sound 

louder that the ones in your doors!

 

I am going to be going through the same thing.

 

so If I'm reading that correctly you want to maximize the signal from the lc6i and keep your gain on your sub amp near "zero"

 

Step 5 says to turn the gains down on your amp.  turn down the volume on your receiver and then reconnect everything.

 

so once it's all reconnected you wouldn't then need to go back and adjust the gain on the amp for the sub? 

[riored4v 8]

 

 

 

Level Matching

If you have ever listened to a friend’s “killer” car audio system and 

heard lots of hiss, clicks or pops, then you may have experienced an improperly level-matched system. When a performance autosound system 

is properly level matched, you should get the maximum output from your 

source unit and amplifiers without any clipping or that annoying hiss! 

The following steps will help you through the process, although at the 

end of the day, your ears will be your guides!

1. Set your source unit’s fader and balance controls to their center positions. If your source unit has subwoofer output (and you are using it), set 

the output level at minimum.

2. Disconnect the RCA cables between your LC6i and the amplifier(s). 

Otherwise get some earplugs.

3. Start playing some dynamic music and set the volume on your 

source unit to about 3/4 of maximum. You should not be hearing anything at this point as the amplifiers are unplugged. If you are hearing 

music, go back to step #2; if you are hearing voices go see a doctor!

4. Adjust the output level controls until the “Maximized” light starts 

to flicker. If the Maximized LED does not come on but you are hearing 

music, fear not. The signal level from your source unit is probably not 

sufficient enough to trigger the LED. Do not worry, proceed on.

5. Set the input gains on the amplifier(s) at minimum! This is known 

as turning down your gains.

6. Double check that you performed Step #5!

7. Decrease the volume control on your source unit and re-connect the 

RCA’s between the LC6i and the external amplifier(s).

8. Now increase the volume on your source unit to your normal listening level. For some of you, this may be louder than others!

9. At this point you may find yourself going back and adjusting the 

Output Level controls on your LC6i to balance the front, rear, and subwoofer sections of your system to accommodate speaker placement and 

efficiency. Speakers on the rear deck of your car will probably sound 

louder that the ones in your doors!

 

I am going to be going through the same thing.

 

so If I'm reading that correctly you want to maximize the signal from the lc6i and keep your gain on your sub amp near "zero"

 

Step 5 says to turn the gains down on your amp.  turn down the volume on your receiver and then reconnect everything.

 

so once it's all reconnected you wouldn't then need to go back and adjust the gain on the amp for the sub? 

 

Thats how I did mine initially, except with the RCA's disconnected initially.

[ChadS13TDI 16]

 

 

I am going to be going through the same thing.

 

so If I'm reading that correctly you want to maximize the signal from the lc6i and keep your gain on your sub amp near "zero"

 

Step 5 says to turn the gains down on your amp.  turn down the volume on your receiver and then reconnect everything.

 

so once it's all reconnected you wouldn't then need to go back and adjust the gain on the amp for the sub? 

 

Thats how I did mine initially, except with the RCA's disconnected initially.

 

OK, but my question is if done properly do you leave the gain on the sub amp near zero? or is it required to turn up to 3/4 or whatever. Similar to how you have it now?

[riored4v 8]

 

 

 

I am going to be going through the same thing.

 

so If I'm reading that correctly you want to maximize the signal from the lc6i and keep your gain on your sub amp near "zero"

 

Step 5 says to turn the gains down on your amp.  turn down the volume on your receiver and then reconnect everything.

 

so once it's all reconnected you wouldn't then need to go back and adjust the gain on the amp for the sub? 

 

Thats how I did mine initially, except with the RCA's disconnected initially.

 

OK, but my question is if done properly do you leave the gain on the sub amp near zero? or is it required to turn up to 3/4 or whatever. Similar to how you have it now?

Once the LC6i was adjusted, you then go back and adjust the gain (turn it up) on the sub amp.  Not saying it would be 3/4, but it would need to be turned up for sure.

 

 

 

Also, since I posted it on another forum.  Went and did another quick test.  Was seeing around 12.6 at the amp and around 12.8-12.9 at the battery under heavy loads.  Was hard to get a real accurate test since I was having to bounce back and forth.  This was done at idle.

[nadcicle 77]

Ok, in theory if you max the adjustments on the LC6i thingy then you shouldn't turn the gain on the audioque at all. This is theory though! . Now here's where it gets fun. Since the line out you are using is speaker wires it is a dynamic signal that will naturally distort at higher volume so you will naturally turn the head unit up to around natural listening volume ( in this case around 3/4) then turn the LC6i thing around 1/2 to 3/4 as well for the voltage out. Then you will adjust the amp accordingly at that point. Max anything will more susceptible to clipping and distortion over somewhere in between or around halfway as you won't be stressing any one piece of equipment to its maximum capabilities. Remember that one thing you are not to touch on the amp is bass boost. You may be comfortable with setting subsonic around 30hz and LPF wherever sounds best to you then slowly work on the gain at that point. Make sure to listen to many different songs to get the effect you are looking for because more often than not you'll find yourself setting it to a low bass song (such as soul survivor.. akon) then listen to a higher bass song (still fly) and can't hear a damn thing. It'll take some adjusting, but you'll get it better than any smd device ever will. 

 

Also,

 

It's not improbable to drop to battery voltage with that load either. As long as you're not dropping below battery voltage (12.3-12.8) then you're fine.

Edited July 2, 2013 by nadcicle

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Just out of curiosity, do you have underdrive pullies on the car?

[riored4v 8]

Ok, in theory if you max the adjustments on the LC6i thingy then you shouldn't turn the gain on the audioque at all. This is theory though! . Now here's where it gets fun. Since the line out you are using is speaker wires it is a dynamic signal that will naturally distort at higher volume so you will naturally turn the head unit up to around natural listening volume ( in this case around 3/4) then turn the LC6i thing around 1/2 to 3/4 as well for the voltage out. Then you will adjust the amp accordingly at that point. Max anything will more susceptible to clipping and distortion over somewhere in between or around halfway as you won't be stressing any one piece of equipment to its maximum capabilities. Remember that one thing you are not to touch on the amp is bass boost. You may be comfortable with setting subsonic around 30hz and LPF wherever sounds best to you then slowly work on the gain at that point. Make sure to listen to many different songs to get the effect you are looking for because more often than not you'll find yourself setting it to a low bass song (such as soul survivor.. akon) then listen to a higher bass song (still fly) and can't hear a damn thing. It'll take some adjusting, but you'll get it better than any smd device ever will. 

 

Also,

 

It's not improbable to drop to battery voltage with that load either. As long as you're not dropping below battery voltage (12.3-12.8) then you're fine.

 

 

That's pretty accurate to where its set currently.  3/4 volume on the HU is pretty loud and in all reality, unless I'm going all out, I won't likely go up much higher than that.  The bass boost is set at zero as well.  I want to say the LC6i is set at about the half-way mark as well.

 

I'm going to try and head out here in a bit to see what sort of voltage i'm getting with some rpm's.

 

Just out of curiosity, do you have underdrive pullies on the car?

 

Nope

[Tirefryr 1,742]

I'm not familiar with the '11 and newer cars, but the older ones had low level outputs from the factory radio that you could tap into and use them as RCAs.  I'm assuming you're tapping straight from the speakers which means it's aft of the factory amplifiers which means it is processed.

[riored4v 8]

Correct.  Its tapped in to the wires that run out of the factory amp to the factory 8" woofers.

 

Played around with it a little more last night, and holding the rpm's at 2,000, with the stereo going it was still dropping down in to the high 12's in volts at the battery.  It was about .1-.2 volts less at the amp.

[djjdnap 78]

i'd go with a bigger alt if that's the case.

[riored4v 8]

Mechman gave me the option of 170 and 240.  He said that 170 would be enough for 2,000 wrms.  Should I just go that route or go with the 240?  I dont really have plans to go much bigger.  At most, I might amp my door speakers, but thats likely about it.