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OK here is my proper apology fellas....I really am sorry (lol) and I do mean it. I was fighting with the wife and tryed to use the forum to escape but instead used the forum to vent. I apologize for snapping and acting like a KNOW IT ALL! Its just when I want to do something I want to do it and thats it. I did not follow the rules and thats why It was a pre build for suggestions. So just Give me the 123 of what you are wanting on my end so that this thread can be the thread I wanted it to be. Just tell me the information you want if I do not tell you. I will provide whatever amplifier power is needed for the subwoofer choice we go with I will also provide the correct power for the amplifiers so this it not an issue the dimensions for a wall are 40 in height 52 in width and 41 in depth.. The trunk depth I have not measured for if we decide to stay in the trunk.. I will be going with the ZCON series speaker which are 2250RMS So please accept my apology and my snappy comback if thats what you want to call it....As it was not directed toward any of you!

It has been debated rather hotly for years, and now it has become pretty much accepted that MP3 and sound quality do not mix. But why is it? Why do some people hear so much loss in their systems and others don’t? Are my old ears really better then someone 30 years my junior? Someone who still has a large amount of their hearing range left, while mine has deteriorated over the years should be able to hear these losses better then I! I started with home tower speakers in the back seat of my old Delta88 back in the days when we had no real systems, and we still had post mounted tape decks and 8-tracks. Then times changed, and we started putting in tape decks with trunk mounted CD cartridge changers with $60 coaxials and $50 amplifiers and maybe a bazooka tube subwoofer for those of us with “discriminating” tastes. Eventually I wanted to just go boom and spent money on several thousand watts and some monster excursion subs. Then we learned about XBL2 and how these high output subwoofers could be very accurate. Finally I finished my journey with $1200 component speakers and $1000 amplifiers, all filled in at the bottom with very capable sound quality based subs dialed way back. My journey started out as just wanting to get some sounds, to wanting to get loud, to wanting to sound good. Now that I have found a really nice sound quality install, my music seemed to really lack. I have been using MP3 for years, but eventually I started looking for higher bit-rate MP3s, and now I am at a level where only .flac or .wav or other lossless files suit my tastes. I have listened very critically to how the advancement of definition brought about by higher quality speakers and amplification, and source caused my MP3 listening experience, no matter the bit-rate to become bland, and I really felt more of the emotion brought out in music by using lossless formats in my car. But then I asked myself, “Why does my lossless not only sound better, but seem to bring about a more emotional experience?” So I started to learn about how lossy formats work, and how they can stick so much information in such a small space. Let’s discuss music reproduction first, so we can get an understanding of what we are listening to. All we are listening to is really a reproduction of an instrument or a voice, and to simplify this writing I will include the vocals as the instrument as well. Musical reproduction is usually characterized as fundamentals, harmonics (and as I will discuss below, low fundamentals can be included in this grouping), and finally overblow, breath, or air. The very heart of these sounds are called fundamentals. The fundamentals, are what I call meat and potatoes or music, are the essentials of the reproduction. They are what the instrument actually delivers, directly. But then we have carry over, which are termed harmonics. These are not as much a base of the delivery of the instrument, as they are an extension of it. You might also see the lower frequency carry overs dubbed as a “low fundamental”, as they are more apparent in low frequencies, where they tend to be less noticed in higher pitches. I like to call this the emotion of the music. Finally you have overblow, which is usually only noticed in wind instruments and vocals. I personally like to classify this as emotion as well, and therefore will include them as a group when I say emotion or harmonics. While it takes a trained ear to listen for image and stage presentation, younger people with a naturally better range can hear losses in the “emotional” frequencies or the harmonics of the sound easier than us old fogies. So why is it that those of us who are older tend to hear these losses better then the young folks? I would dare to venture that it is simply because we tend to have more money invested in our component systems (and when I say system, I mean everything from source material, source equipment, sound processing, amplifiers, speakers, and installation techniques) with a higher definition then the younger folks who are running a simple inexpensive component system install. This is not to say our systems are better for all purposes, as I will discuss in this writing. In fact, for the vast majority of folks, a lower definition system makes more sense, as many are more concerned with the ease of storage media and they tend to use MP3 or other lossy formats. When we have these high definition systems, many of the weaknesses inherent in lossy encoding really jump out glaringly. So, sandt38, what is it that we really listen to? Well, the human brain perceives and retains everything it sees, hears, thinks, etc. It is actually an amazing organ that captures far more then we are able to drag out of it. We simply do not have all the doorways opened up in the brain, so we forget, or don’t notice many of the things that we actually perceive. The mind actually only directly notices the loudest things we hear. So while there may be several instruments may be reproducing the same frequency at the same time, we only perceive the loudest of this information we actually hear. We ignore the other lower volumes of the same frequencies, but we still hear it. Our mind processes this information but determines that it is not that important so it will file it away in that subconscious part of the brain we do not actually consciously notice. So let’s look at how these MP3 encoders work. In order to save space, an MP3 encoder usually selects certain information to discard, and other information to retain. The most common method of MP3 encoding functions similarly to how we perceive the music. Just like our brain, it ignores the lower volumes of the same frequencies, and all it retains it the higher volume material at that frequency. We fill in the rest subconsciously. Please be aware that many encoders eliminate only certain lower frequencies altogether, but they variably retain the higher volume information up to a certain point. For example, the encoder may retain ½ of the information at a certain frequency. But it will retain the higher volumes at a greater rate. While these are not the only methods of encoding MP3s, they are the most common. So you see, by considering the way the encoder works we can get an idea of what happens to the music we listen to. The fundamentals tend to get retained, while the harmonics tend to be lost. So we lose the emotion, which is why MP3s sound so bland on systems with very high quality components. Now, there are other things to consider when it comes to MP3 compression. Bit-rates, and not only the rate, but variable or constant bit-rates, are the biggest consideration here. Very quickly, the higher the listed bit-rate, the more information that is saved, and therefore the better the quality. But to be frank, these don’t alter what occurs with the music. Yes, these higher bitrates do sound much better, but there is still something that is lost. So what can we gather about speaker selection from our source material? Well, we can help decide whether it is really worth it for us to spend $1000 on components, or if a $200 set will suffice. I am not trying to say that if you spend a grand on a set of components it will automatically be a better set then a $500 set. My mention of pricing basically assumes a basic cost/quality ratio. Clearly a $200 set of Sony Xplod coaxial speakers is nowhere near as good as a $180 Image Dynamics CTX65CS component set. So take these generalizations to assume a similar cost/quality ratio. The high dollar sets that you see out there are far more true to source then the lower priced units. This is a good thing if the source material is pristine. But if your source is not that great, these more accurate speakers will start to sound like crap. It isn’t the speakers that suck, it is the material you are putting through it. But when we get down into the lower dollar sets, these weaknesses are not quite so apparent. I do want to point out this article, no matter how poorly the whole test was conducted the results still prove my point. The guy used some of the most awful source and speaker combinations. Why you would ask people to listen for nuances using a $200 receiver and a $200 subwoofer and satellite set using 5 3.5 inch full range units is beyond me. Sheer idiocy. But the end results are very significant, the differences between MP3s and lossless were detected by all listeners in the test. All this considered, please keep a few other things in mind. I cannot stress the importance the rest of your signal chain has on the final product. The higher end speakers will also show off weaknesses in them as well. Be prepared to make some really high dollar signal chain investments when you decide to buy these high end components. I also think it should be noted that while amplifiers of the same class may sound different while sitting still with little ambient noise, but once we get moving these nuances really disappear. I do feel that differing class amplifiers can have a different overall sound, and can be distinguished while moving.

so whenever you have to install a big 50+ lb woofer by yourself in a trunk you strain the crap out of your fingers and usually need a helping hand. I remember installing my gen 2 and taking a nap right after from being exhauated. The reason im bringing this up is the square (rectangular whatever) motor of the N2 really makes it nice to handle solo: I still have to clean up a bit and put my backseat back in but i at least got to drive around a bit to give it a listen. Initial impressions, compared to the gen 2 in a similar enclosure are just that it comes alive at a lower volume than my gen 2. Its obviously still virgin tight so ill have to loosen it up a bit. Nice to have it up and running tho.

This is some funny shit. Like a comment posted at YT, I don't know if she'll get any turkeys to come, but I almost did!!!

THAT WOULD KILL ON THE LOWZZZZZ

What exactly are your goals? SPL? Daily street beat?

None of those woofers combination compare to one another. What's your budget?

18" SSA Xcon!

I got to wait 7 months for this, dang . First of all stop crying and getting emotional, noboy cares how your gonna pay for it. I guess they stopped making jobs when you got one, haha your hilarious. Actually the people who posted wanted to post here that is why they posted what they did . Second there are rules and regulations to post and your not following them what so ever. Third of all if you would of read the rules, it will tell you to take any and every response you receive in your thread whether you like it or not. So dont come on here getting your panties in a bunch. Personally all the post you made are ridiculous and getting worse, no offense but 6-15"s is not going into a Malibu walled so face it. But if you want to try then go ahead no one is telling you not too, some people who actually have more experience then you are just lending you a helping hand thats all. I say go with it since it is the only way to tell if you can get it to fit with the proper airspace and the right amount of port area. Just throwing as many subs in a car as you can with a shitty ass too small box wont perform like less subs in the right enclosure that will help them shine. Nobody cares about you being a noob or not or if they know you or not, shit you dont know us either so what does that mean . On this forum take the information that is given to you and use it or dont but dont let emotions get in the way, that is not what we are here for. Thanks and cant wait for the build log.

Of course. Heres the page where they can be purchased http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/store/categories/Sub-Woofers/SoundSolutionsAudio/

So first thing my fiance says when my new woofer came through the door was, "Another king kong speaker to tear apart your cars?" Lol that's all I could think about while installing it, and I suppose its as good a description as any, so I made a king kong n2 video (sorry no white girl or late night tip or whatever else is stereotypical, I gotta get a video when I can really power up the woofer later on, maybe I'll take requests ) btw nothings tuned, my highs were really screaming, sorry for the distortion in my phones mic... Note the sub isn't camera shy; it angles the mirror down so it can get some time in the limelight The thing I really like about this car is the massive blow through hole in the backseat. My gen 2 BtL really shined with that alignment, but the ports were a little bit tight for breathing room, so I designed a box that has the ports fire into the same air space, potentially leading to a 6th order effect (been dying to meter the difference with the seat on and off), we shall see... gotta get the seat back on first lol

Fixed for you.

LOL.....not a snowballs chance in hell that sub is worth the OP (or anyone else) considering then. Asking LMS prices ($800) for a non-LMS driver, with no T/S parameters, and performance that is not going to be anywhere remotely close to the original driver ? I'd offer him $200 for the motor itself, then buy the replacement top assembly from PE ~$550. Then you could have an actual LMS Ultra for $750

REPOAST!

Personally I'd never recommend a "hybrid" sub unless the seller were able to supply some pretty descriptive details about the driver. What you listed there is pretty meaningless on the whole. Is he able to provide you T/S parameters for the driver? What is the length of the coil and gap height? If he can't answer these basic questions, it would be a no brainer to pass on the "deal" without hesitation. Also, unless PSI used the LMT coils, which I don't believe he can as the patent is owned by TC Sounds......it would no longer be an "LMS" subwoofer as the coil is what makes the driver "LMS", as "LMS" denotes use of the "LMT" coil. And the "LMT" coil is part of what makes the driver what it is as it improves BL linearity. Considering his price is only $100 off the price of an LMS Ultra from PE.....I'd just wait for PE to get more stock rather than try to save 10% and get a cobbled together hybrid. Personally I don't see the appeal of a "hybrid" driver. The "hybrid" driver more than likely doesn't have anywhere near the amount of engineering time invested as the original product did. Chances of a "hybrid" being a superior driver to the original are generally going to be very low, especially when most of the time people can't even supply something as basic as T/S parameters. It's almost always going to be a better idea to look for something with original parts, which is going to operate as it was designed to operate than purchasing a "hybrid" subwoofer.

She put a bag on my head Still counts!

The price you PAID and the PRICE I got it for ya I would have to agree I STOLE IT!.......and QUESTIONS........ASK YOU.........The only question I would need to ask you is where do you get such quality CRACK ROCKS!

If you have the Alpine why not use it and save a little cash? By no means am I saying anything negative about the Sundown amps as I love them myself. You could have a little larger more efficient enclosure built to optimize the power you have available with the Alpine. If you are even remotely interested in upgrading in the future, the extra power available from the Sundown would be beneficial. Either way you decide to go would be a win in my opinion. Looking foward to seeing a build log in the future.