Wiring Tweeters Out Of Phase

[mlstrass 1]

What effect does it have when wiring the tweeters out of phase? I've heard that it can be another tuning aid, but not sure what it does, or is supposed to do to the soundstage or sound of the tweeter.

Will it make them more laid back? Make them distort easier or affect power handling in any way? I ask because I want to make sure if I try it that I don't do more harm then good, so any caveats are appreciated.

Searched online and didn't find any useful info, but figured some of the more experienced here might share.

[ANeonRider 3]

Try it and use your ears.

[JimJ 11]

Make them distort easier or affect power handling in any way?

Nope.

[///M5 2,833]

What if due to PLD that the majority of the frequencies that you were playing through your tweeters were out of phase?

I try every combination of phase possible with all my drivers, it is the first step in tuning.

[mlstrass 1]

By changing the tweeters to out of phase what "might" I hear different?

[mlstrass 1]

What are you referring to by PLD?

[ANeonRider 3]

path length difference.

Everyone's vehicle, equipment & ears are different, so I can't tell you what you will hear.

[///M5 2,833]

It wouldn't be unusual for all of a sudden your stage to come together and everything to just get better.

Personally I have NEVER owned a vehicle where I run all drivers in phase, one always sounds better switched, sometimes two. You never know. The only way to find out is to switch them all. I would encourage you to go back to flat with no t/a when doing this as it should be done first. I then recheck every phase position after implementing t/a. (Consider your dual mids one driver though even though that can create a mess as well).

[mlstrass 1]

Thanks guys, appreciate the info.

Actually my HU doesn't offer TA, and is one reason I want to play with the tweeter phase as the pass side seems to be more dominant even though it's farther away. It's very much on-axis where as the driver's side is still a little off.

I'll mess with phase first, then perhaps move the pass side a little off-axis. Just trying to get that last little bit out of what I have.

[ANeonRider 3]

switching phase is the "old school" way to t/a... and the correct way to start when you do have t/a adjustments.

[DevilDriver 28]

If the symptom is a stage that leans to the right at upper frequencies, the cause is more directly related to a frequency response issue. This, of course, depends on the frequency at which the tweeter is crossed over at. If, for example, it's crossed over a 3 kHz or higher, changing polarity of that tweeter is not likely to do anything for you at all, as the ear identifies localization cues along the horizontal axis based on Inter-Aural Level Differences. I hate to totally whore this article out, but have a read of http://www.audiojunkies.com/blog/457

It is possible that changing the polarity of one of your tweeters can make a difference if it is crossed over low enough to have an effect on Inter-Aural Time Differences, which is what we use time alignment to avoid. However, a change in polarity is usually most effective with your midrange and/or midbass, as that is where ITD is the dominant factor in horizontal localization cues.

[mlstrass 1]

Good read, thanks...

[///M5 2,833]

3kHz has a 1/2 wave of 2.24" which corresponds to 166us, while not a lot I would still rather dial in my processing utilizing a phase swap than extra t/a.

[mlstrass 1]

Tweets are HP'd around 3kHz, so maybe it won't make a diff. Heading out to swap them around right now...

[DevilDriver 28]

Rather than edit this, there is one cautionary caveat that I failed to mention in my post above: a filter is not a brick wall. It's quite possible, even with a 3kHz xover point, that reversing polarity will have an effect on your tweeter. At 750 Hz, response is down by only 24dB (assuming a 2nd order filter) and ITD is still an issue.

Sean is very good at making me jog my memory.

[dogstar 0]

I had a similar issue, where my drivers side tweet was very dominant.

I tried swapping phase on it and there was a definite difference. The next step was stepping my high-pass up about 600 hz.

[mlstrass 1]

So I take out the first tweeter and it's already wired out of phase, same with the other side. The XT25's use the small terminal for POS, and the large one for NEG which I apparently forgot the other week at 2am when getting them hooked back up.

I switched them both to normal phase and put em back in place. Quite a difference in sound/output. Had to cut the EQ back a few notches and then demo'd a bunch of material I'm quite familiar with.

They sound much better and keep up with the dual mids with no problem. Before they seemed a little too laid back on some songs, almost muffled at times, but now they sound so clear and detailed, but not in your face. Also sound stage is much more centered now, although a LOT of songs I listen to seem to have high hats/guitar riffs only in the right channel.

Guess I inadvertantly tried them out of phase and found out in phase works best in my set up.

Thanks for all the advice....

[///M5 2,833]

I would still play with each driver independently, if that made a difference so will just switching one of them (again consider your mids as one speaker).

[mlstrass 1]

I would still play with each driver independently, if that made a difference so will just switching one of them (again consider your mids as one speaker).

My MO is to make one change and listen for around 1 week, playing a variety of music, so I can get a very good feel for how it sounds to me. So I'll leave it this way for now.

Initial impressions are that it raised the soundstage, made it a little wider, and just over all really brought things to life. I've played 70's rock, 80's metal, blues, jazz, female vocalists, etc... and everything sounds much better to my ears.