What has the greatest effect on.....

[jlw*22 0]

Yes, tune by turning down the lows. I see what you are saying but in a musical installation I rarely see that problem. Of course it all depends on who is listening and what is being played. I always buy equipment that exceeds my needs. That grants me the luxury of longer life of the system. I have just 2 Memphis HPO 10d4's tuned at 32 hz and they are quite linear for the money. Not to mention they are being feed by Memphis' 1100 watt distortion frenzy amp.

If you like you bombs over the music then by all means tune higher but I like my music natural. Its all in your preference.

And Thanks Dave

[jlw*22 0]

This is a little bit off subject but it merits some attention with this subject. Has anyone every metered their system in all octaves of their system to see how linear it was through all bands (including up to 18khz and the likes). I would be interested in seing how far off some systems are and what people are actually hearing in that regard.

[emperorjj1 2]

i wish i had an RTA to do so honestly

[JimJ 11]

This is a little bit off subject but it merits some attention with this subject. Has anyone every metered their system in all octaves of their system to see how linear it was through all bands (including up to 18khz and the likes). I would be interested in seing how far off some systems are and what people are actually hearing in that regard.

Yup, and I'm not a fan of a very flat RTA response

I think RTA's are very useful for setup purposes, setting anything more than a 1/3-band EQ by ear is a royal PITA, and they can be good for determining trouble spots, but I've never liked the setups I've heard that were optimized for a nearly-flat curve.

[///M5 2,833]

I like a flat in ear response, not a flat RTA curve.

As for tuning higher and things rolling off above 50hz, even if that were the case who cares? Subs should never play that high anyways, that is midbass territory.

To the OP, regrettably with 1.25cuft you don't have enough room for a ported enclosure. Sure you could cut corners and get a 10 to fit in that, but I'd recommend getting a 12 that was meant for the space and enjoying it.

[KU40 173]

I like a flat in ear response, not a flat RTA curve.

That's what I was going to say. Our ears don't hear at a flat rate across the audio spectrum. They're more sensitive at certain frequencies than others. Not to mention that some frequencies or music notes played are annoying or hurt the ear/brain if played very loudly.

[mrray13 30]

I have just 2 Memphis HPO 10d4's tuned at 32 hz and they are quite linear for the money. Not to mention they are being feed by Memphis' 1100 watt distortion frenzy amp.

awwwww.....hpos and a 1000d?? pure old school memphis sex there brother!! probably the best under seat setup i ever did in my silverado was that exact setup. save for the ICON and memphis belle!!

welcome to ssa!!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[jlw*22 0]

I find it interesting that people want there stereo to dictate what the music sounds like. I prefer the artist to make the adjustments not me. So flat don't mean that its all the same it just means that you are getting as close a replication of the artists rendition of the music as can be possible. That way if they intend on a strong bass guitar solo thats what you get. And if the hit the hi-hat light you hear it light. Thats what a flat response is for. It makes it as if you were sitting next to the guy with the mixer board hearing the final product. I hope that makes it easier to understand why I say flat is the best. Of course in setting such a system up you would have to us a 0 db signal of some kind capable of hitting all audible frequencies to tune it but it can be done.

[///M5 2,833]

I find it interesting that people want there stereo to dictate what the music sounds like. I prefer the artist to make the adjustments not me. So flat don't mean that its all the same it just means that you are getting as close a replication of the artists rendition of the music as can be possible. That way if they intend on a strong bass guitar solo thats what you get. And if the hit the hi-hat light you hear it light. Thats what a flat response is for. It makes it as if you were sitting next to the guy with the mixer board hearing the final product. I hope that makes it easier to understand why I say flat is the best. Of course in setting such a system up you would have to us a 0 db signal of some kind capable of hitting all audible frequencies to tune it but it can be done.

I don't think that is what was said. My comment was that your ear and an RTA have a really, really different response therefore using an RTA to setup your response is silly. Use what makes sense to develop your own cars transfer function and that is your ear. I have a 1/128th band analyzer at my disposal anytime and a hell of a set of mics, but I don't find them useful for setting up my eq at all. Troubleshooting of course, but not setting things up.

[KU40 173]

But the problem with that is that all artists don't record it flat.

[emperorjj1 2]

lol im going to have to agree somewhat because i know im not flat and far from it but ive always been curious what the car would look like on a RTA. I think it would be a useful tool to look at everything from all angles but just because you have one or use one doesnt mean u have to be 100% RTA flat. I know i wouldnt be because i dont like music like that

[///M5 2,833]

But the problem with that is that all artists don't record it flat.

Perhaps, but almost all musicians do.

[jlw*22 0]

I guess I will have to continue to disagree. First off no artists records in flat or there could be no distinction in the levels of sound. But they do record at levels below 0 db. It would be impossible otherwise to prevent clipping if they didn't. Thats why I tune with 0 db recorded tones so that I have the same sound stage (ceiling if you will) on my system. Why would you want to take an artists recording and change it? My logic is that if an artists records a track and he is playing his guitar at -1db and the drummer is tapping his cymbal to the tune of -10db, I would want my stereo to do that too. If you dont have a truly flat in car response then you can never achieve that. Im not saying that every song will sound flat, thats all in the recording. Maybe Its all in how you look at it but picture this. You have a SACD and you listen to your favorite band. You find some tickets to a small performance of theirs in an ampitheatre thats built for music and go. They sound totally different to you there. Lets say in this instance they actually tuned their equipment to the studio standards (granted this could be near impossible but bear with me). Now do you go home and say they played horribly or do you just chalk it up to your ear playing tricks. IMO, if you play a sine sweep recorded at 0 db and you hear pitching and some dead spots, you got some serious problems. Like I said before, all of us have our styles and attaining the equipment is all we have as challenges.

This isn't really an issue that comes up for me when I do enclosures for people. I let them listen to music they listen to and I calculate some designs and let them hear them. They chose what sounds good to them and I am satisfied when they are grinning. Thats what we are all seeking in the end. Happy audacious days to you all.

[///M5 2,833]

You have a couple large misconceptions:

1) Flat has any relation to 0dB or -10dB or any level for that matter. It doesn't need an absolute reference, just a relative one.

2) Being flat has NOTHING to do with distinctions in sound. Flat means literally no boost or cuts on an eq. Of course they do use one in a studio to compensate for all sorts of things in the booth, but the goal is to make a recording that usually mimics how they would sound live (ie again with no extra boosting or cutting).

3) And Musicians do record at their playing levels, which of course is flat. I never said flat on an rta, but flat as in no extra or artificial boosts or cuts. Of course, artists might as their is some ridiculous crap in top 40 music (which includes more than just rap) where they are purposefully really whacking the FR to up the bass output. Part of the reason, I said Musicians do although Artists don't.

Either way, my point which you missed as your end goal seems to be the same is that you should setup your system to sound flat to you which of course will then play whatever recording back the way it was recorded.

[BEAVER 0]

3 pages and nobodys mentioned the enclosure for the enclosure. Believe it or not, the size of the car plays a very big role in determining how low you can get, IMO.

[emperorjj1 2]

how low bass wise?

[BEAVER 0]

Well. I guess you can get low in any vehicle, but the amount of output you can achieve down low is vehicle dependant to a large degree.

[audio-neon 34]

Well. I guess you can get low in any vehicle, but the amount of output you can achieve down low is vehicle dependant to a large degree.

Well this is true, I left it out seeing as we were referring to car audio. I assumed that people would see this thread that way. I guess you could also say the transfer function of the vehicle comes into play as well.

[JimJ 11]

I left it out seeing as we were referring to car audio. I assumed that people would see this thread that way.

I wasn't, but OK

[BEAVER 0]

I'm just saying that a guy with a small pickup would have to design his enclosure differently than a guy with a minivan or a large SUV.

Put two identically tuned boxes into two totaly differnt vehicles and you have completely different results. The enclosure that works well in my truck isn't going to fare so well in a school bus... even if it is well designed for the sub that is going into it.

An enclosure should be built with the vehicles charecteristics in mind, just as much, if not more so, than the sub manufacturers recommendations for their sub.

[tezin87 0]

I'm just saying that a guy with a small pickup would have to design his enclosure differently than a guy with a minivan or a large SUV.

Put two identically tuned boxes into two totaly differnt vehicles and you have completely different results. The enclosure that works well in my truck isn't going to fare so well in a school bus... even if it is well designed for the sub that is going into it.

An enclosure should be built with the vehicles charecteristics in mind, just as much, if not more so, than the sub manufacturers recommendations for their sub.

That was me with the small pickup. Any ideas on what I should do then to achieve the low, loud bass that I'm looking for? For example: tune lower or higher than normal, build a bigger or smaller enclosure than recommended by the manufacturer, bigger port or smaller port?

[JimJ 11]

"Low bass" is a really general term, it depends on how low you're talking about...for me, it's basically subsonic...so in a typical vehicle environment that pretty much rules out ported enclosures. This is music dependent, but for me trying to reproduce the lowest registers of a pipe organ, contrabass or anything that really gets down past the threshold of hearing requires IB or sealed to sound realistic in a vehicle.

I'm just saying that a guy with a small pickup would have to design his enclosure differently than a guy with a minivan or a large SUV.

Put two identically tuned boxes into two totaly differnt vehicles and you have completely different results. The enclosure that works well in my truck isn't going to fare so well in a school bus... even if it is well designed for the sub that is going into it.

An enclosure should be built with the vehicles charecteristics in mind, just as much, if not more so, than the sub manufacturers recommendations for their sub.

Agreed completely

Although if low bass is really a priority I'd still try a sealed or IB arrangement before anything else...

[BEAVER 0]

I'm just saying that a guy with a small pickup would have to design his enclosure differently than a guy with a minivan or a large SUV.

Put two identically tuned boxes into two totaly differnt vehicles and you have completely different results. The enclosure that works well in my truck isn't going to fare so well in a school bus... even if it is well designed for the sub that is going into it.

An enclosure should be built with the vehicles charecteristics in mind, just as much, if not more so, than the sub manufacturers recommendations for their sub.

That was me with the small pickup. Any ideas on what I should do then to achieve the low, loud bass that I'm looking for? For example: tune lower or higher than normal, build a bigger or smaller enclosure than recommended by the manufacturer, bigger port or smaller port?

Let me clarify one thing. I'm not an spl guy, never have been, never will be. Consequently, I have never tried what it sounds like you are try to do. I am more interested in a somewhat flat, predictable low end response and have spent much more time studying the ways to achieve this goal.

That being said, you're not alone. Visit any audio forum and do a little searching and you'll find a number of people who are not getting the response they want out of their trucks.

It would be fairly easy to get a good low end response by using a large enclosure and tuning low, but then you're bottom end will be bloated and your fundamental frequencies (40hz-80hz) will suffer. If I were to try to build a ported enclosure for a pickup I'd build it towards the smaller end of the size spectrum and tune it a couple of clicks higher than I would in a larger vehicle... but again, I'm not an expert on the subject.

[DevilDriver 28]

It is coming down to semantics, really, but in any room, the limitation in low frequency response will almost always be linear displacement.