How does a sub play 10 hz when..

[sqguy 0]

Mrray13,

The first post you keep quoting bold part:

My whole point was that people have high tuned boxes and consider 30hz low, not that subs would not do it. I said in the recommended box they would not do it. If people want them like that, use the instructions, buy a little manufactured box, or have no midbass and use the sub to cover...still 30 is low to them.

I used to run pyramid 10s at 30hz IB and ported, and they worked great for $15 each. Still considering trying the 15s. Some cheap subs work great until they wear out or blow, then you need a better sub for your use.

I said this and I don't know how you get IB and ported at the same time from the bold part, that is just retarded if this is an "enthusiast site." So a sealed sub is "sealed AND box?" Ported is "Ported AND box?" I never said "IB ported" or "at the same time." If I saw 'at same time' I would ask how that was done and how it worked. I would imagine not much would come out of the port, but in fact people have run IB and ported the whole trunk into the car and I have no idea how well it works as I never have. Because few people actually vent the subs to the outside for true IB due to obvious reasons. You are just looking to attack something out of context. Context of the post is subs can play low, even $15 dollar ones in more than one configuration, but many people don't run them that way. I'm sorry if that was not obvious, it sure looks plain as day to me. With the huge goofy posts you guys made over the weekend I just figured you had a few beers or something.

In the English language the word AND means: Together with or along with; in addition to; as well as. Used to connect words, phrases, or clauses that have the same grammatical function in a construction. Your phrase that he quoted was I used to run pyramid 10's at 30hz IB and ported.

I don't know about you. But when running an IB set-up. When have you ever seen anyone say I run a 30hz IB set up? That 30hz was most likely related to the word ported. Therefore because of the conjunction, you made the mistake of poor grammar. Therefore Mrray and ///M5 etc. Were completely right in assuming that you were saying IB and ported together.

Because I said "at" 30hz not "a" 30hz as you put it . The IB and ported refer to running each at 30hz, in this case a setup capable of producing 30Hz music. I'm not a grammar teacher by far, but it is still stupid to assume in this context even if it is incorrect. You are just trying in any way to call me an idiot and in this case it really is not there. I have no problem saying I am wrong when I am, I'm far from perfect but not an idiot either.

Are you going to slap M5 also? Look what he posted:

"Perhaps you should tell us how you would be happy with 100w on your fronts but 70w isn't enough....oh, excuse me you said you'd be fine off 75w. So you are implying you can hear the difference between a 70w amp and a 75w?? ROFL."

Again, did not read my post about how the amps are rated. Its just nitpicky crap like I see on some other sites I stay away from, but not had that issue here until now. Maybe I was unclear in some statements, that still does not warrant the treatment a few of you have given me instead of simply asking for clarification.

[audio-neon 34]

Mrray13,

The first post you keep quoting bold part:

My whole point was that people have high tuned boxes and consider 30hz low, not that subs would not do it. I said in the recommended box they would not do it. If people want them like that, use the instructions, buy a little manufactured box, or have no midbass and use the sub to cover...still 30 is low to them.

I used to run pyramid 10s at 30hz IB and ported, and they worked great for $15 each. Still considering trying the 15s. Some cheap subs work great until they wear out or blow, then you need a better sub for your use.

I said this and I don't know how you get IB and ported at the same time from the bold part, that is just retarded if this is an "enthusiast site." So a sealed sub is "sealed AND box?" Ported is "Ported AND box?" I never said "IB ported" or "at the same time." If I saw 'at same time' I would ask how that was done and how it worked. I would imagine not much would come out of the port, but in fact people have run IB and ported the whole trunk into the car and I have no idea how well it works as I never have. Because few people actually vent the subs to the outside for true IB due to obvious reasons. You are just looking to attack something out of context. Context of the post is subs can play low, even $15 dollar ones in more than one configuration, but many people don't run them that way. I'm sorry if that was not obvious, it sure looks plain as day to me. With the huge goofy posts you guys made over the weekend I just figured you had a few beers or something.

In the English language the word AND means: Together with or along with; in addition to; as well as. Used to connect words, phrases, or clauses that have the same grammatical function in a construction. Your phrase that he quoted was I used to run pyramid 10's at 30hz IB and ported.

I don't know about you. But when running an IB set-up. When have you ever seen anyone say I run a 30hz IB set up? That 30hz was most likely related to the word ported. Therefore because of the conjunction, you made the mistake of poor grammar. Therefore Mrray and ///M5 etc. Were completely right in assuming that you were saying IB and ported together.

Because I said "at" 30hz not "a" 30hz as you put it . The IB and ported refer to running each at 30hz, in this case a setup capable of producing 30Hz music. I'm not a grammar teacher by far, but it is still stupid to assume in this context even if it is incorrect. You are just trying in any way to call me an idiot and in this case it really is not there. I have no problem saying I am wrong when I am, I'm far from perfect but not an idiot either.

Are you going to slap M5 also? Look what he posted:

"Perhaps you should tell us how you would be happy with 100w on your fronts but 70w isn't enough....oh, excuse me you said you'd be fine off 75w. So you are implying you can hear the difference between a 70w amp and a 75w?? ROFL."

Again, did not read my post about how the amps are rated. Its just nitpicky crap like I see on some other sites I stay away from, but not had that issue here until now. Maybe I was unclear in some statements, that still does not warrant the treatment a few of you have given me instead of simply asking for clarification.

I'm not trying to call you an idiot. I was just trying to show you where Sean, Mrray etc. got the ported/IB thing. I promise you that I did read about how the amps were rated. If you go back to where I broke down your post politely, I clearly went above and beyond the call of duty. Investing the time to recheck my math and even take into account floor noise in a car audio environment. Where I clearly stated how the difference between 75 watts CEA and 70 watts @ 12v was inaudible.

[dave_Edwards 1]

If you can here the differance from 70 watts to 75 watts you are GOD!!!.....plus when you place subwoofers in an IB you can't tune them, you can EQ them but not tune them......stop posting, you are just digging your hole deeper.....just admit you said what you said(before the edit)....I would have never said anything if I would not have read it with my own eyes....

[audio-neon 34]

I'd also like to add that my experience with IB in car audio are with set-ups that are capable of reproducing frequencies in the teens.

[mrray13 30]

sqguyib...please, just stop. we've shown you where you were wrong, even if it was just in poor grammer, but you keep going. but poor grammer can change the entire context of a written conversation, as we have pointed out to you. oh, i think richard clarke still has that $10k challange if one can tell the difference in amps at the same power, maybe he'll adapt it to telling the difference in 5 watts of power? and CEA rated means about as much as EPA rated fuel mileage.

noone wants to call you an idiot, but damn man, you just keep opening the door.

audio-neon, my name is Kent, lol.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[audio-neon 34]

sqguyib...please, just stop. we've shown you where you were wrong, even if it was just in poor grammer, but you keep going. but poor grammer can change the entire context of a written conversation, as we have pointed out to you. oh, i think richard clarke still has that $10k challange if one can tell the difference in amps at the same power, maybe he'll adapt it to telling the difference in 5 watts of power? and CEA rated means about as much as EPA rated fuel mileage.

noone wants to call you an idiot, but damn man, you just keep opening the door.

audio-neon, my name is Kent, lol.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I thought it was, I just couldn't remember, I was debating between Ryan and Kent in my head, lol.

Mine's MJ

[sqguy 0]

I'm not trying to call you an idiot. I was just trying to show you where Sean, Mrray etc. got the ported/IB thing. I promise you that I did read about how the amps were rated. If you go back to where I broke down your post politely, I clearly went above and beyond the call of duty. Investing the time to recheck my math and even take into account floor noise in a car audio environment. Where I clearly stated how the difference between 75 watts CEA and 70 watts @ 12v was inaudible.

That is not what I said that wattage is backwards, the new Kicker is 4x70 CEA. Look at some of the V12 MRV Alpine amps they show both ratings, here is a section out of a manual:

SPECIFICATIONS

Power Output: RMS Continuous Power (at 12.0V, 20 Hz to 20

kHz)

Per channel into 4 ohms

MRV-F353 (CH-1

[Adrian_D 520]

You are saying a 30wrms/ch and a 50wrms/ch amp will sound exactly the same? That has not been my experience.

It would be cool to do a blind test with 2 amplifiers close in power

[audio-neon 34]

I'm not trying to call you an idiot. I was just trying to show you where Sean, Mrray etc. got the ported/IB thing. I promise you that I did read about how the amps were rated. If you go back to where I broke down your post politely, I clearly went above and beyond the call of duty. Investing the time to recheck my math and even take into account floor noise in a car audio environment. Where I clearly stated how the difference between 75 watts CEA and 70 watts @ 12v was inaudible.

That is not what I said that wattage is backwards, the new Kicker is 4x70 CEA. Look at some of the V12 MRV Alpine amps they show both ratings, here is a section out of a manual:

SPECIFICATIONS

Power Output: RMS Continuous Power (at 12.0V, 20 Hz to 20

kHz)

Per channel into 4 ohms

MRV-F353 (CH-1

[mrray13 30]

i'm also wondering how it goes from a 70 vs 75 wrms comparision to this new 30 vs 50 watt comparision?

mj...i also thought the recognized level of difference an untrained ear could p/u was 3db?

well, i'm sure it's something i'm not reading again. somewhere up there.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[audio-neon 34]

i'm also wondering how it goes from a 70 vs 75 wrms comparision to this new 30 vs 50 watt comparision?

mj...i also thought the recognized level of difference an untrained ear could p/u was 3db?

well, i'm sure it's something i'm not reading again. somewhere up there.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I said 2dB for the benefit of the doubt factor.

[mrray13 30]

oh, ok...

lol, i guess, hehe

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[sqguy 0]

I'm not sure about you guys, you can't read and I'm not sure about the math. I've posted repeatedly that I like an old 12v rated 2x75 rms for highs, and the newish kicker 4x70 I'm using two channels on the front stage is not powerful enough. The new kicker is rated 70 at 14.4v, thus it is more like ~40wrms at 12v to compare to an old amp. Anyone who is saying 5 watt difference can not read, or more likely does not want to read.

You example does not look right, 30 to 50 is not 166% difference. 50 is 166% of 30, the difference would be 66%. Either way, try it and see if you can tell it is louder. I can and I bet you can too.

[vladd 26]

I'm not sure about you guys, you can't read and I'm not sure about the math. I've posted repeatedly that I like an old 12v rated 2x75 rms for highs, and the newish kicker 4x70 I'm using two channels on the front stage is not powerful enough. The new kicker is rated 70 at 14.4v, thus it is more like ~40wrms at 12v to compare to an old amp. Anyone who is saying 5 watt difference can not read, or more likely does not want to read.

You example does not look right, 30 to 50 is not 166% difference. 50 is 166% of 30, the difference would be 66%. Either way, try it and see if you can tell it is louder. I can and I bet you can too.

i just wanted to quote this before you changed it.

[mrray13 30]

I'm not sure about you guys, you can't read and I'm not sure about the math. I've posted repeatedly that I like an old 12v rated 2x75 rms for highs, and the newish kicker 4x70 I'm using two channels on the front stage is not powerful enough. The new kicker is rated 70 at 14.4v, thus it is more like ~40wrms at 12v to compare to an old amp. Anyone who is saying 5 watt difference can not read, or more likely does not want to read.

You example does not look right, 30 to 50 is not 166% difference. 50 is 166% of 30, the difference would be 66%. Either way, try it and see if you can tell it is louder. I can and I bet you can too.

it's not that we can't read, the problem is we can, and you can't type in proper structure/thoughts. but that hasn't sunk in yet. you even stated you don't care to type in proper structure, but then complain because we misinterept what you type?

I don't bother with proper grammar for posting; takes too much time.

yet, as helotaxi pointed out, which takes longer? typing using proper grammer/structure or spending the next few days clarifying what you could have typed correctly in the first place?

and let's not get started on the rambling and runon paragraphs. again, do us all a favor, slow down, form complete thoughts and type them using proper grammer. maybe we won't have this issue. and yes, it does matter.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[///M5 2,833]

I said 2dB for the benefit of the doubt factor.

That was generous, it is known to be at least 3dB regularly much more.

[audio-neon 34]

I said 2dB for the benefit of the doubt factor.

That was generous, it is known to be at least 3dB regularly much more.

I know Sean, I'm a generous person.

I just don't know how the topic got from how does a sub play 10hz tones when tuned to 30+hz to "can you tell the difference between x amount of amplifier power and y amount".

[sqguy 0]

Hey maybe your math is right, how could I ever get mixed up reading something on here...I had to leave and could not stay to figure it out. Increase yes, difference threw me.

This started way back on post 44 when I said:

"I could not run a high side to my liking on anything less than a 75rms/ch@4ohm@12v amp. This 70rms/ch kicker does not get it, at 14+V I am sure."

Everyone got it wrong many times. But now that I look at it, I can't argue it anyway Audio-Neon is right about CEA and ratings. I would have to bench an old 2x75 amp against the kicker 70w to find out what the difference is and I don't have the means. I am surprised you guys run small amps, here I thought big SQ all ran huge amps for all that headroom.

What do you mean "edit" my posts? I don't seem to have any edit button on my old posts.

[dave_Edwards 1]

I don't run "small amps" I have more power on my front stage than some people have in their whole system.....as for you....with a name like "sqguyib" I would have thought you knew what IB was.....guess I was wrong....I also thought you knew the differance in ported and IB....I was wrong there too.....

[JimJ 11]

The monos are slightly more than 5 watts more per side than the EL84's running in triode were...8W vs. 2W...

And yeah, there's a difference

[vladd 26]

quadrupling in power hardly compares to a 66% increase

[MikeS 0]

The monos are slightly more than 5 watts more per side than the EL84's running in triode were...8W vs. 2W...

And yeah, there's a difference

A 2.5 watt 2A3 triode can sound larger, more open with more bass than a pentode connected EL84 at 4.5 watts, depending on the circuit design of course. Single ended El84 does sound sweet, however.

[JimJ 11]

And there's the folks who swear by the 1.5W of 45's, although I haven't heard them yet...they probably would have taken to the Altec multicells nicely...

[bigtoepfer 0]

.................WOW, i left this a few days ago and didnt' realize how out of hand it got. I tried to read it all in one sitting. LOL

I don't run "small amps" I have more power on my front stage than some people have in their whole system.....as for you....with a name like "sqguyib" I would have thought you knew what IB was.....guess I was wrong....I also thought you knew the differance in ported and IB....I was wrong there too.....

Funny thing is i always pronounced his name in my head "squidvib" never realized it was SQ GUY IB. HA. NICE. um. well thats it. Nothing important to add to this endless calamity of grammar naziisms. LOL. Altho after reading all of this i do understand where the misunderstandings come from. i know i don't always use grammar or punctuations properly. But alot of it i do on purpose. probably about 50% of the time on purpose. LOL

[MikeS 0]

And there's the folks who swear by the 1.5W of 45's, although I haven't heard them yet...they probably would have taken to the Altec multicells nicely...

I took a chance off CL a few months back for some old radio tubes. They had a couple 45's, and 71A's.

Bummer only one 71A was strong, the other 71A and 45's had open grids.

I did get some strong 6V6, and some interesting globe rectifiers. It wasn't a total bust.

I do now have a pair of strong 71A's to try in a SET circuit. A whole whopping 800 millivolts per side.....