Law of Diminishing Returns

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I am just wondering a little about amplifers and competition......

this makes me think because the wattage output of amplifers on the normal consumer market, is growing exponentially fast, for example a few years ago the Earthquake D2 was one of only a few amplifers that could be had for a not so bad price and was doing well over 2000 watts.... I am curious more about this in the purpose of street classes where 12volts and only one battery is allowed

now Orion, Kicker, Hifonics, MMATS, PowerBass, American Bass, SPL Dynamics, Harrison Labs, Tru Technologies, Phoenix Gold, Zapco, Cadence, Rockford Fosgate, US Amps (the list goes way on) all make or sell a amplifer model that meets or exceeds 2500 watts with ease.....

how can we find out at what point will larger and larger amplifers show no more benifit in wattage or sound pressure off of these limited supply electrical systems?

(even with the big three and some monster G31 battery)

[jntar 15]

This is something that I would want to know and understand too. I see all of these people in audio shops and on other forums that are wanting to run multiple amps and several thousand watts, but dont have the electrical system to back it. I hear "I want 2 XXX and 4k watts of power to run daily cause I want to be the loudest in my town." In all reality if they ran the 4k at full tilt and the amps didnt blow from too low voltage I really think that there is no advantage there to me.

I think that Jmac would be the perfect person to find answers or expain this.

-Justin

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

bump!

[mrray13 30]

ummm..in comp though, that's no biggie...really. james typically uses on battery and several thousand watts..

but with the relibilty of HO alts and the ease of installing mor then one...i don't think it will be an issue for awhile..

and to top that off..batteries are getting better too..

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[NDMstang65 403]

the point where current draw is too much and makes voltage drop too far and chit catches on fire

Ohms law is either your best friend or your worst enemy...

I still see there being no point at all what-so-ever in running more then 2500 watts in a daily driver...

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

well I am sorta thinking about for Street B or C when batteries are limited and engines are off

[NDMstang65 403]

yep...low voltage is a huge issue...

you've just gotta find something that'l run off of one batt...

Also - LOTS of wire is your friend (ohms law again) Less voltage = More current...The more wire you have the more current you can pass through it!

[Tirefryr 1,742]

yep...low voltage is a huge issue...

you've just gotta find something that'l run off of one batt...

Also - LOTS of wire is your friend (ohms law again) Less voltage = More current...The more wire you have the more current you can pass through it!

Don't you mean LARGER wire? More wire equals longer runs/voltage drops/increased resistance.

[johnecon2001 82]

whats the biggest wire? I've worked with 4/0 before.. is there larger still? what are the diameters.

Also, at what point do you just say, "screw it", and use a giant copper buss plate all the way from the battery to a taper point to the amps.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

whats the biggest wire? I've worked with 4/0 before.. is there larger still? what are the diameters.

Also, at what point do you just say, "screw it", and use a giant copper buss plate all the way from the battery to a taper point to the amps.

Oh yeah there is larger wire. Largest I have ever seen is 1000Kcmil. It's about 3" in diameter. And that's just the wire itself. I'm quite sure there is even larger available. We used a lot of this stuff for some large buss jumpers between very large circuit breakers found at very large power plants. It's heavy as hell.

[02BlackOnBlackSS 1]

What happens if you relocate your battery to the back? Wouldn't that eliminate the need for 8 runs of 1/ott?

[Tirefryr 1,742]

SOme classes have specific rules on battery placement. I believe the one in question here calls for stock location.

[02BlackOnBlackSS 1]

SOme classes have specific rules on battery placement.  I believe the one in question here calls for stock location.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So in street your batt has to be in the front? That kind of sucks. I was wondering why the competitors ran so much wire.

[mrray13 30]

the street competitors i know have always ran tons of wire...8-12 runs is pretty much the norm. no fuses and a ass ton of 0/2 guage...

but i think u'll still see more efficient amps and stronger batteries. and the mulitpule runs of wire..lol..

in daily...teh HO alternator will always allow 2.5k+ systems, until the point when teh IC engine isn't used and the vehicle no longer uses an alt.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Kent is right, look at the efficent new RF and MBQuart amps, someone posted up a birth for an RF T1001 that was doing 1409ish @1ohm mono, and at 83% efficency, craziness,

but still there is a point when say I do 4 runs of 1/0 and have two massive amplifers off only one battery, meaning figuring out at what point to not keep spending money on a larger amplifer,

for example: run an RF T1001 or 1501bd @1 and get in the range of 1500 watts all things considered, or an Orion 2500D @1 and get somewhere around the same power due to lack of available current,

this is just a hypothetical example, I am sure the Orion can get more power, but just making an example

[Nikuk 1]

as far as competing: run as much as you can of the largest wire you can find. Literally. I saw a few tenth gain in my trailblazer by going from single 1/ott to single 4/ott power & ground. 0.2dB for wire.

as far as daily drivers: I still say that alot of things are overlooked in daily (truely musical) installs. Mainly the fact that the amplifiers WILL NOT be running at full tilt into minimal impedances very often.

For Denim: Run more wire, pull all fuses, build up the best damned ground (to frame) possible. Then test the hell outta the amp. If You simply CANT make it any louder, then look for something new. It sucks, but it's common law. LoL