How to recognize a good SQ amplifier?

[Dammed 12]

Well the title says it all, I havge been surfing a while now and found MANY amplifiers that match my budget and wishes for power. Now the question becomes what amplifier will make me speakers give out the best SQ possible.

Brands I have taken a look at: Nakamichi, Zapco, Sundown Audio, ARC Audio, Alpine, Infinity, MB Quart, Memphis, Rockford Fosgate, Hifonics, Soundstream, Rainbow, Orion, MTX, Alphasonik, PPI, Diamond Audio and Kicker

As You can see, a lot of brands, and even more amps. so I have a lot of work a head of me.

I know a little basic stuff, like THD and S/N Ratio and what to look for there. But is there any thing else one can look at to find out what amplifier gives the best SQ?

[ABXX49 20]

Good build quality and reputation.

Blunt, but it's a start. I don't have enough knowledge to answer your question though.

On the bright side, there are people here that do! Be patient!

[aboveak 8]

I look for a high efficiency amp. Majority of the time a class A/B amp is more efficient. I also look for a higher damping factor. To help you understand what that is i suggest you search the term. It will definately help you know a little about amps.

Depending on if you want to go active or not you would also want to look into good X-over capability. I usually look for an amp with 10-5k hz if possible with 12,18,24 db slope.

Edited December 28, 2009 by aboveak

[slim2fattycake 85]

I look for a high efficiency amp. Majority of the time a class A/B amp is more efficient. I also look for a higher damping factor. To help you understand what that is i suggest you search the term. It will definately help you know a little about amps.

Depending on if you want to go active or not you would also want to look into good X-over capability. I usually look for an amp with 10-5k hz if possible with 12,18,24 db slope.

what? If you want high efficiency amps, you may want to look else where.

Also, any dampening factor over 20 is fine. There was an article somewhere on here about dampening factors. OP, search it in the technical section and read it.

[aboveak 8]

I look for a high efficiency amp. Majority of the time a class A/B amp is more efficient. I also look for a higher damping factor. To help you understand what that is i suggest you search the term. It will definately help you know a little about amps.

Depending on if you want to go active or not you would also want to look into good X-over capability. I usually look for an amp with 10-5k hz if possible with 12,18,24 db slope.

what? If you want high efficiency amps, you may want to look else where.

Also, any dampening factor over 20 is fine. There was an article somewhere on here about dampening factors. OP, search it in the technical section and read it.

I shouldn't have used the word "efficient". I apologize for the incorrect terminology. Class A/B usually have a higher sound quality but they waste more power doing it than a class D does. I'll have to look up that thread as well

[Dammed 12]

Ryan, good rep is important ofc. But it's nice not to be depended on other people to find out what's good and not, because on the internet men are men, women are men, and little girls are FBI agents.

I'll check it out, thx for the replies guys.

So, THD, S/N ratio, dampening factor, and X-over capability, any thing else to watch out for?

[aboveak 8]

Honestly those are things that most consumers look for. The majority of it is just marketing. Will there be an audible difference between one and another by minor changes in specs? most likely not. The most important things to look at are: price, features, aesthetics, and build quality

[Dammed 12]

so after I have narrowed it down, I should take a internal picture of the amp and look for a electrical engineer or someone else that has great knowledge on components to let him/her check them out and spot out who's build up the best. Luckily for me, I know two guys that know a great deal about audio components. And if/when I have two-thee left I'll check back with you guys. To see ehat people think about them.

Man buying cars is easier then buying good amplifiers.

[aboveak 8]

That's taking it pretty far...haha. But whatever makes you happy. Personally other than the Hifonics, Alphasonik and MB Quart I would use any of those amps. Not saying they're bad, i just don't prefer them.

If your running passive there won't be hardly any audible difference probably none at all between those amps. If active it would be possible mostly because of different features.

[Impious 1,476]

So, THD, S/N ratio, dampening factor, and X-over capability, any thing else to watch out for?

There's no such thing as a "sound quality" amplifier.

THD is a pretty unimportant spec to look at. Any amp worth owning (meaning anything but extreme low end junk) will be capable of operating at a level of distortion that is inaudible with music. Most amps on the market have their power rated at a THD level of equal to or less than 1%, which means there will not be an audible difference between them distortion wise. Many people mistakenly believe that THD is a "lower sounds better" spec, but the truth is that once distortion gets down to a certain level (2% or less) you won't be able to hear a difference with music. So you can ignore it.

Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) is the same way. Any amp worth owning will have a sufficient enough SNR to be audibly indistinguishable. SNR can only even be used as a point of comparison if you know the testing conditions of the measurement. If one amp had SNR rated at 1w of power output, and another amp rated at 100w of power output, then the "rated" SNR of the amplifiers are NOT directly comparable. But regardless, it's a relatively unimportant spec and can generally be ignored.

Damping Factor is another spec that can be ignored. Many people incorrectly believe that DF is a "higher is better" spec. The truth however is that once an amplifier has sufficient damping as to not audibly affect the sound, going any higher will not yield any benefit. A damping factor of around 20 is sufficient enough to not cause an audible difference. Just about any amp on the market will have sufficient damping as to not audibly affect the sound. Damping factor thread is here: http://www.soundsolu..._1entry537161

Class A/B does not sound any better than Class D. Class A doesn't sound any better than Class A/B or D. You can not attribute any particular sound characteristics to the "class" of the amplifier, and no one has ever been able to conclusively demonstrate that the "class" of the amplifier affects the sound.

What should you look for in an amplifier?

Look for an amp that offers the most power output within your budget, has the features you need, the build quality you desire, aesthetics you prefer, fits your space requirements and has a warranty & customer service you can live with. It's that simple.

[jcarter1885 995]

So, THD, S/N ratio, dampening factor, and X-over capability, any thing else to watch out for?

There's no such thing as a "sound quality" amplifier.

THD is a pretty unimportant spec to look at. Any amp worth owning (meaning anything but extreme low end junk) will be capable of operating at a level of distortion that is inaudible with music. Most amps on the market have their power rated at a THD level of equal to or less than 1%, which means there will not be an audible difference between them distortion wise. Many people mistakenly believe that THD is a "lower sounds better" spec, but the truth is that once distortion gets down to a certain level (2% or less) you won't be able to hear a difference with music. So you can ignore it.

Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) is the same way. Any amp worth owning will have a sufficient enough SNR to be audibly indistinguishable. SNR can only even be used as a point of comparison if you know the testing conditions of the measurement. If one amp had SNR rated at 1w of power output, and another amp rated at 100w of power output, then the "rated" SNR of the amplifiers are NOT directly comparable. But regardless, it's a relatively unimportant spec and can generally be ignored.

Damping Factor is another spec that can be ignored. Many people incorrectly believe that DF is a "higher is better" spec. The truth however is that once an amplifier has sufficient damping as to not audibly affect the sound, going any higher will not yield any benefit. A damping factor of around 20 is sufficient enough to not cause an audible difference. Just about any amp on the market will have sufficient damping as to not audibly affect the sound. Damping factor thread is here: http://www.soundsolu..._1entry537161

Class A/B does not sound any better than Class D. Class A doesn't sound any better than Class A/B or D. You can not attribute any particular sound characteristics to the "class" of the amplifier, and no one has ever been able to conclusively demonstrate that the "class" of the amplifier affects the sound.

What should you look for in an amplifier?

Look for an amp that offers the most power output within your budget, has the features you need, the build quality you desire, aesthetics you prefer, fits your space requirements and has a warranty & customer service you can live with. It's that simple.

Couldnt of been said any better.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

Well don't tell that to members of other forums.

I swear reading some posts on one forum especially, had me wanting to drop big money on an Audison, Arc, and McIntosh. They are so warm and bla bla bla....next best thing to pussy.

One quick check of my checking balance brought me back to reality.

[jcarter1885 995]

Well don't tell that to members of other forums.

I swear reading some posts on one forum especially, had me wanting to drop big money on an Audison, Arc, and McIntosh. They are so warm and bla bla bla....next best thing to pussy.

One quick check of my checking balance brought me back to reality.

If anybody ever compared an amp to pussy then I wouldnt believe what they tell me.

[aboveak 8]

I prefer A/B to class D with active front stage. I feel there is a difference and i'd like to see legitimate tests done to prove if there is a difference between them. I compared a couple class D amps to some A/B ones. The one off the top of my head was the Arc XXD 4080, the JL 450/4, Arc's SE 4100, and there were some others. Passive there was no audible difference. There was an audible difference active however and i still like the A/B better but the majority of my decision making is like i said before. Price, aesthetics, features, and build quality.

[Impious 1,476]

I feel there is a difference and i'd like to see legitimate tests done to prove if there is a difference between them.

There have been many. Every single one of them has failed to demonstrate there is any audible difference based upon the class of the amplifier. You can "feel" there is a difference all you want, but every valid test that would identify just such a difference has failed to do so.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Just buy the most expensive one you can afford. Then, even if it sounds like shit, it will still be the best since it cost the most. That is the only thing that makes "audiophiles" believe they have golden ears.

[slim2fattycake 85]

hahaha.

[Dammed 12]

Thx for the link Impious, interesting reading. Just as a side note, regarding the amplifier class. The difference in SQ would maybe not be any different, but if you look at practical use of a amplifier, a A class with a higher efficiency would not heat up as fast as a D class amplifier. Meaning you can push a A class amplifier longer then a class D. At least that's my understanding, because the electricity that doesn't get converted to power out from the amplifier will be transferred to heat. But then again, a D class amplifier could have better heatsinks to counter affect this problem. Am I on the right track, or?

it suddenly became much easier to shop for a new amp... Warranty and customer service is important, but since shipping of a amp from Norway to US will probably cost more then to just buy a new one, I'll probably just sell it to a enthusiast that can fix it himself.

For me as I can see it the features and the build quality is most important for me.

Aboveak, when you said if you want to go active or not do you mean a active crossover? If you don't mind explain short what you mean, cause I'm not so good on technical slang on English.

in a couple of years maybe and it would be good to have a amplifier that could power that with good sq, what features should I look after?

I was thinking about making a good three way front stage in a couple of years and having a good amplifier that could power them with the necessary features would be sweet, I want to buy a amp for my speakers that would not restrict my options in the near future (2-5 years), what features should I watch out for?

Edited December 29, 2009 by Dammed

[Duran 387]

Thx for the link Jay-cee, interesting reading. Just as a side note, regarding the amplifier class. The difference in SQ would maybe not be any different, but if you look at practical use of a amplifier, a A class with a higher efficiency would not heat up as fast as a D class amplifier. Meaning you can push a A class amplifier longer then a class D. At least that's my understanding, because the electricity that doesn't get converted to power out from the amplifier will be transferred to heat. But then again, a D class amplifier could have better heatsinks to counter affect this problem. Am I on the right track, or?

it suddenly became much easier to shop for a new amp... Warranty and customer service is important, but since shipping of a amp from Norway to US will probably cost more then to just buy a new one, I'll probably just sell it to a enthusiast that can fix it himself.

For me as I can see it the features and the build quality is most important for me.

Aboveak, when you said if you want to go active or not do you mean a active crossover? If you don't mind explain short what you mean, cause I'm not so good on technical slang on English.

in a couple of years maybe and it would be good to have a amplifier that could power that with good sq, what features should I look after?

I was thinking about making a good three way front stage in a couple of years and having a good amplifier that could power them with the necessary features would be sweet, I want to buy a amp for my speakers that would not restrict my options in the near future (2-5 years), what features should I watch out for?

You are correct, normally class D amplifiers have "better" heatsinks. Also, Adrian, a member on this forum is in Europe in Transylvania I believe and he repairs amps, and he's very good. Active means every speaker get's it's own channel and it's own crossover network devoted to just that speaker, the result is more volume and sound quality because the speakers aren't being forced to play something they weren't made for.

[jcarter1885 995]

I didnt provide the link, that was Impious.

[Dammed 12]

I'll note down Adrian for the unfortunate future if I blow my amp...

So the best thing would actually be to buy a 6-channel amplifier, since on that amplifier you could run a active 3-way front stage?

That sounds interesting, I will probably run a active front stage in the future then, 2 or 3 way. What features do you have to watch out for? Cause as I see it, the crossovers are external right?

my bad Jay-cee, proof that i need some

Edited December 29, 2009 by Dammed

[Duran 387]

I'll note down Adrian for the unfortunate future if I blow my amp...

So the best thing would actually be to buy a 6-channel amplifier, since on that amplifier you could run a active 3-way front stage?

That sounds interesting, I will probably run a active front stage in the future then, 2 or 3 way. What features do you have to watch out for? Cause as I see it, the crossovers are external right?

my bad Jay-cee, proof that i need some

For active you want crossover flexibility, since this is a predominately Sundown forum, I'm gonna shove Jacob's products down your throat Look at the SAX-100.4 Version D, it is the same amp that powers my front stage, and I couldn't be more impressed. The crossovers on the amp are PHENOMAL and you would not need an external crossoverboard built in. Another member on here, bassaholic, switched form a Kicker 900.4 on his front stage to a SAX-100.4 and said it was not only cleaner but louder. Keep that in mind, the top of the line 900 watt amplifier made my Kicker outdone by an underground 400 watt amplifier. Of course that will only handle a 2 way active front stage, thats why Jacob make the SAX-125.2.

[Dammed 12]

so if you wanna run a 3 way active setup you go for the 100.4 for the mids and tweets and the 125.2 for the bass elements`? And when you say crossover flexibility, you mean that you can adjust the crossover for each channel, or that the crossover has finer increments?

Yeah, after the PM's I checked them out, and they look quite tempting. Especially after i saw what they put out at 12V, the 1500D.1 did close to 2000W at 12,5V if I remember correctly, with 13,5V it would be close to 2150W rms witch is pretty nice for a 1500W rms rated amp. And I can only except the 100.4 to be a bit underrated themselves. But back to reality, I do have a question and to be honest and a bit forward, considering it's the producer that did the test, how sure are we that the numbers are true?

For now the sundown audio does look quite tempting. I only hope he will have the sale going until 12/15 of january, that's pay day. If I had the money I would go for Zeds 6-channel amp, but 600$ is a bit to much for me.

P.S. It's funny to see how every forum has one, two maybe three brands that they recommend every time someones asking for advice on amp/subs.

[Duran 387]

so if you wanna run a 3 way active setup you go for the 100.4 for the mids and tweets and the 125.2 for the bass elements`? And when you say crossover flexibility, you mean that you can adjust the crossover for each channel, or that the crossover has finer increments?

Yeah, after the PM's I checked them out, and they look quite tempting. Especially after i saw what they put out at 12V, the 1500D.1 did close to 2000W at 12,5V if I remember correctly, with 13,5V it would be close to 2150W rms witch is pretty nice for a 1500W rms rated amp. And I can only except the 100.4 to be a bit underrated themselves. But back to reality, I do have a question and to be honest and a bit forward, considering it's the producer that did the test, how sure are we that the numbers are true?

For now the sundown audio does look quite tempting. I only hope he will have the sale going until 12/15 of january, that's pay day. If I had the money I would go for Zeds 6-channel amp, but 600$ is a bit to much for me.

P.S. It's funny to see how every forum has one, two maybe three brands that they recommend every time someones asking for advice on amp/subs.

Yes the 100.4 on the midrange ant tweeters and a 125.2 on the midbass, the crossover board is explained here: http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/amplifiers/sax-1004d.html

As far as the testing, Jacob is very honest, he has no need to lie to make his product look better because it's already phenomenal. Also, he has spent a long time perfecting his products, the latest 100.4 is the fourth version he's made as he constantly improves them.

[Dammed 12]

cool, sounds really good. I'll check a little bit around and read a bit more, because I have about 2 weeks before I get the money to place the order. But Sundown Audio sounds really tempting.