SAZ 1000D goes to protection when input signal

[gojo 0]

Just installed my Sundown SAZ 1000D in my Camaro.

As soon as I fired it up, the protection LED lit (I thought it was the power LED at first)

I unhooked the output speaker wires and reset the amp (disconnected power & ground) and tried again. Still had protection LED.

I then unplugged the INPUT signals, reset the amp, and this time got the power light (woohoo!). As soon as I attempted to plug in a INPUT line, the protection LED would light up.

So it's the input causing the trouble, not the output.

I'm using a wiring harness from Sub Thump, maybe it's bad. I checked the wires from the harness against the wiring diagram for the car and everything seemed ok.

Maybe the RCA cables I used for the input are bad, I tried another set of RCA cables and the same thing happened.

I even re-soldered the RCA connections on the Sub-Thump harness (just in case they were bad) and still get the protection LED.

Could I have a bad AMP?

Edit: I probably should mention that the Sub-Thump wiring harness plugs into the existing stock Amp. Essentially tapping into the existing inputs feeding the stock amp. I would think if it's a wiring problem this would have caused the stock amp to fail too. But it's working like a charm.

Any advice?

Edited June 19, 2010 by gojo

[sundownz 197]

Do you have another source like an iPod with an RCA adapter you can try ?

[gojo 0]

Do you have another source like an iPod with an RCA adapter you can try ?

Brilliant idea!

I just hooked up my camcorder with RCA out, and it worked like a charm. I even hooked up the sub box and was able to feel the Sub moving.

I was just BARELY moving though, probably because the camcorder wasn't putting out much low end (I guess)

So, it doesn't appear to be the AMP as I thought. All signs are now pointing at the Sub-Thump wiring harness. I'll check there now.

Thanks for the help.

[gojo 0]

Do you have another source like an iPod with an RCA adapter you can try ?

Brilliant idea!

I just hooked up my camcorder with RCA out, and it worked like a charm. I even hooked up the sub box and was able to feel the Sub moving.

I was just BARELY moving though, probably because the camcorder wasn't putting out much low end (I guess)

So, it doesn't appear to be the AMP as I thought. All signs are now pointing at the Sub-Thump wiring harness. I'll check there now.

Thanks for the help.

Update:

I hooked up some computer speakers to the RCA cables out from the Sub-Thump harness. They worked flawlessly, and they're amplified. So it's doesn't appear to be the sub-thump harness.

I took the same RCA cables that were working on the computer speakers, and when I touched the first one to the Sundown Amp, it went into protection mode.

I tried both RCA cables, and even the BR IN spot, every time the protection LED lit immediately.

So, I guess it's a bad Amp. Crud, I guess it happens sometimes.

Update #2:

Ok, I just bought a RCA adapter for my Droid phone. I hooked the output of the Droid to the inputs on the Amp and BOOM! Got some thump out of my Sub.

Tried the RCA from the Car, and instant protection mode.

I am SO confused right now.

So to summarize...

Inputs into the Sundown amp:

RCA from the Car (via Sub-thump harness) - FAILS

RCA from my Camcorder - WORKS

RCA from my phone - WORKS

Output from the Car (via Sub-thump harness):

RCA into Sundown amp -FAILS

RCA into powered computer speakers -WORKS

I am totally confused right now. I bought a voltage meter but am totally clueless on how to use it.

When I set it to read Ohms I got:

RCA's from Sub-thump Harness -anywhere from 18 - 30 while the music was playing. Is that normal?

RCA's from my Phone -24.5 steady on one side, around 23.5 on the other. These remained pretty constant.

[shizzzon 461]

run a new rca cable and if that dont work, it is pointing to the sub harness

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Try new RCA's. The cheaper the better as some of the more expensive RCA's have a tendency to cause issues with Sundown inputs. Get some cheap shielded cables.

[gojo 0]

run a new rca cable and if that dont work, it is pointing to the sub harness

I've now run 3 separate RCA cables, all of them cause immediate amp failure.

I'm pretty sure it's not the harness as it works just fine on the powered computer speakers I tested them with.

Try new RCA's. The cheaper the better as some of the more expensive RCA's have a tendency to cause issues with Sundown inputs. Get some cheap shielded cables.

That suggestion got me excited as the only RCA cables I had tried were the expensive ones that came with wiring kits.

I just tried some old cheap ones (wal-mart close outs) and the same thing happened.

As soon as the RCA jack touches the Amp input the protection LED lights.

ARGH!

The amp works fine with everything EXCEPT the car RCA inputs.

The car RCA inputs work fine with everything EXCEPT the amp.

What the hell???

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Headunit used? What is the wiring harness used? Link to it?

[sefugi 166]

What year model Camaro is this?

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Headunit used? What is the wiring harness used? Link to it?

Found the link Subthump 5th Gen Add an Amp T-Harness for 2010 Camaro

It could possibly be incompatible with your amplifier due to the input voltage being to high.

[sefugi 166]

That was what I was lookin at or the harness itself might be shorted somehow.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Yea I think he has a bad harness.

[gojo 0]

Yea I think he has a bad harness.

First, thank you all for helping me with this, it's truly appreciated!

I thought it could be a bad harness too, but am not so sure now. The sub-thump harness connects to the INPUT of the stock Amp, so it's non-amplified input.

1. If there was a short in the harness it would affect the stock amplifier too.

2. I was able to plug the RCA's from the harness into some amplified computer speakers. They worked flawlessly, both channels.

They just don't work with the Amp.

3. I've checked (and re-checked) the wiring on the harness against the car's wiring diagram. I'm pretty sure it's spot on.

Found the link Subthump 5th Gen Add an Amp T-Harness for 2010 Camaro

It could possibly be incompatible with your amplifier due to the input voltage being to high.

That is indeed the harness I have. Shouldn't be incompatible as several other camaro owners have used this amp with the same harness. Camaro 5 forums

What year model Camaro is this?

2010 2SS Camaro. It's our dream car .

Headunit used?

Using the stock Boston Acoustic. It's fair as stock H/U's go, but lacks some bass. I'm eventually going to replace the stock Amp & Speakers.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Do you have another amp to try? If the different amp works then it is most likely the Sundown amp. Contact Jacob at sundownz@sundownaudio.com and he will take care of you.

[gojo 0]

Do you have another amp to try? If the different amp works then it is most likely the Sundown amp. Contact Jacob at sundownz@sundownaudio.com and he will take care of you.

I don't, but I was going to stop by a few local installers and see if they would let me either try another amp, or test mine.

[gojo 0]

What is the maximum input voltage the Amp can handle?

My stock system is pushing between 6-10 volts that I'm trying to run into the amp. It immediately goes into protection mode when I hook up the input RCA.

Others have hooked up this amp to the same system with no problems. Could I have a bad amp?

[sundownz 197]

Since the amp plays on other sources it's not bad.

The maximum input RCA voltage is 6 volts.

[mrray13 30]

Okay, this is just weird. We've been trying to help gojo over at c5.com for awhile now, no luck.

My thought process is it's ground issue, but he's had luck going into computer speakers with the SubThump harness. I don't have the BA system in my Camaro, so I can;t go test...

wait a minute, lol....Got an idea. A friend has a 2LT with the BA system. I'll get some voltage readings from his.

We have got to get this figured out, lol. This is weird, lol.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[mrray13 30]

Jacob, this is for you...

Could this be a problem with the SAZ 1000d not working in a 2010 Camaro, but the SAX 125.2 does??

The amp is unhappy because the "low level" signals coming out of the subthump harness are not low level. They are outputs from a BTL amp in the radio, which has 6V DC on both the positive and negative output lines. This is OK when driving a speaker, and OK when driving an amp designed for that, but not OK with some aftermarket amps.

The signal is not too high - it's just the presence of DC that is upsetting the amp.

The best thing to do is to put a line out converter (LOC) between the radio and the input to your aftermarket amp. You can feed the LOC with either the output of the radio or the output of the amp, which you can find at the speakers. The output of the radio is likely to be less noisy, but less signal.

You may have to adjust the gain of the LOC and/or the gain of your amp, but all should be good.

And

BTL stands for Bridge-Tied Load, and refers to an amplifier configuration frequently used in vehicles. Instead of a single amp driving a speaker with respect to ground, two amps are used. One pushes while the other pulls, and allows amps to make more power with a limited supply voltage (like 12V). It also eliminates the need to have a DC blocking capacitor in the circuit.

As for some amps working and some not, it depends on the input circuit of the amp. If the amp has an AC coupled input, it will typically work fine. If it has a DC coupled input, it will be bummed out by the DC on the lines.

The BA head unit is actually the same radio as in non-BA systems. If you hook its outputs up to speakers, it will drive them. The addition of the amp and extra speakers in the car makes it a BA system.

Both quotes are from an EE on the camaro5 board, and he's correct about the 6volts DC on the speakers, at least on non-BA cars. Moriatii will hopefully measure his on a BA car. Do you think a LOC inline from the SubThump harness, pre BA amp, post radio, will allow gojo to run his SAZ 1000d?

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[sundownz 197]

With 6v DC going into the RCAs it's NOT going to be happy.

LOCs typically contain capacitors in series which should stop the DC (otherwise known as a passive HPF filter).

[mrray13 30]

With 6v DC going into the RCAs it's NOT going to be happy.

LOCs typically contain capacitors in series which should stop the DC (otherwise known as a passive HPF filter).

Thank you sir!!

So the SAX and SAZ lines have different input boards? One is AC couple, while the other DC? Or is there another reason this is happening on class d more then a/b?

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[sundownz 197]

The input circuits are different - I'd have to look into it farther for a more detailed explanation.

You are asking for trouble putting DC into the amp like that, though, even if it plays fine... definitely get that taken care of.

[mrray13 30]

Even the 125.2? Unless it's input board is AC coupled, going by what I quoted above, correct?

When you get time, I'd appreciate it if you could look into to it a bit deeper. It seems as though not every amp is having the problem, just two that I know of right now, your SAZ 1000d in one car and 4 older Orions in another. Would be interesting to see if the input side of things are similar.

Thanks again!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee