12" XCON Build. Looking for recomendations

[ChadS13TDI 16]

Hello,

 

I am going to be putting a 12" XCON in a ported box into my Passat.

 

I was looking at the Crescendo 2000D to power it at 1ohm. 

 

Since I'm on stock electronics I was thinking I will just keep it at about half gain maybe slightly higher and see how everything does. I do plan to do some upgrades or possibly add a second battery.  My trunk comes designed to house a battery so "I THINK" it would be an easy addtion.

 

Do the Gain's work like that? If the AMP is rated at 2250RMS and the gain is set at halfway does that mean I will rougly be putting 1125RMS to the sub?

 

Any Enclosure recomendations? Right now i'm planning to just use the SSA optimal enclosure design, or possibly use the Khaotik 12" enclosure but it's tuned a little higher and is slightly smaller. 

 

Anyway thanks for listening and I hope to post some updates throughout the process. 

[EPerez 236]

No the gain doesn't work like that. It's not a volume knob. All it does is match up the voltage from the head unit to the amp. I set mine by ear and set it to right before the sub distorts and has stress.

I would highly suggest a battery in the back in addition the the front.

Can you build your own box? I can get you a design and a 3d sketchup for you to help you build the enclosure.

You can have the tuning and size to your preference depending on your max dimensions.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Bassink

[ChadS13TDI 16]

No the gain doesn't work like that. It's not a volume knob. All it does is match up the voltage from the head unit to the amp. I set mine by ear and set it to right before the sub distorts and has stress.

I would highly suggest a battery in the back in addition the the front.

Can you build your own box? I can get you a design and a 3d sketchup for you to help you build the enclosure.

You can have the tuning and size to your preference depending on your max dimensions.

Alright well that's kind of a bummer. Do you think a battery alone will be enough? I'm a little nervous to do the Big 3 on a brand new car. Never thought about adding a second battery but is it as simple as just tapping into the power wire that i run from my Engine battery and then Grounding it in the trunk?

I can build my own box using basic tools. That would be great if you could help with a design!

I am looking for a good mix use but I definatley listen to a lot of electronic, house, dubstep type music so I'd like it to be caterred toward that. My trunk is huge but I do want to retain some functionality and a small part of the pass through. My ideal MAX measurements would be 33" Wide 16.5 tall and 23" deep. Tuning I'm up for suggestion but I'm thinking 30HZ is a good spot.

 

BTW my Altenator is 180AMP but I do have a fair amount of electronics in this car.  I have a scan gauge that shows me voltage and it's usually sitting around 14-14.3vlts not sure if that is of any benefit knowing the info.

Edited May 9, 2013 by ChadS13TDI

[EPerez 236]

The Xcon doesn't need a lot of power for it to be loud. Which means it doesn't need the full 2k rms or even it's 1750 rms. People run them on 600 rms and are very happy with the output. We can just make your box on the bigger side to compensate for the low power.

 

If you don't have the money or just don't want to get a second battery right now I would suggest running the amp at 4 ohms. This way it'll be more efficient and you won't have to worry about putting strain on your alt, battery and equipment. Your amp puts out around 700 rms at 4 ohms. I've had two and they're great amps. Adding a second battery is easy. What I did was run a pos and neg wire from the front batt to the second batt. You can run just the pos to the back batt and ground the back batt in the trunk. 

 

That's good you can build the box. It's way cheaper than buying and you get experience doing it. Personally I love to build them.

 

For you tuning I don't think you need to tune that low for your type of music. With me I had a 12" Zcon tuned to 32 hz and hit decaf's low music (28 and up) like crazy. Now I have a 15" Zcon and and it's between 33 and 34 and I don't hit that low like I want, but still able to hear it pretty good. With my tuning at 33-34 it sounds good with the dubstep and electronic music I listen too (I like a lot of that music). So for tuning I would go with 33hz if I were you.

 

I'll put in the measurements and see what I come up with.

 

Awesome that you have the 180 alt. Is it dodge charger? The volt meter is good because it'll let you know how much of a voltage drop you have and if you need more electrical upgrades(second batt). And with doing the big 3, it's no problem doing it on a new car. I have the big 3 done on my 2012 fusion.

[ChadS13TDI 16]

The Xcon doesn't need a lot of power for it to be loud. Which means it doesn't need the full 2k rms or even it's 1750 rms. People run them on 600 rms and are very happy with the output. We can just make your box on the bigger side to compensate for the low power.

 

If you don't have the money or just don't want to get a second battery right now I would suggest running the amp at 4 ohms. This way it'll be more efficient and you won't have to worry about putting strain on your alt, battery and equipment. Your amp puts out around 700 rms at 4 ohms. I've had two and they're great amps. Adding a second battery is easy. What I did was run a pos and neg wire from the front batt to the second batt. You can run just the pos to the back batt and ground the back batt in the trunk. 

 

That's good you can build the box. It's way cheaper than buying and you get experience doing it. Personally I love to build them.

 

For you tuning I don't think you need to tune that low for your type of music. With me I had a 12" Zcon tuned to 32 hz and hit decaf's low music (28 and up) like crazy. Now I have a 15" Zcon and and it's between 33 and 34 and I don't hit that low like I want, but still able to hear it pretty good. With my tuning at 33-34 it sounds good with the dubstep and electronic music I listen too (I like a lot of that music). So for tuning I would go with 33hz if I were you.

 

I'll put in the measurements and see what I come up with.

 

Awesome that you have the 180 alt. Is it dodge charger? The volt meter is good because it'll let you know how much of a voltage drop you have and if you need more electrical upgrades(second batt). And with doing the big 3, it's no problem doing it on a new car. I have the big 3 done on my 2012 fusion.

 

 

Yeah I noticed that people run them at the lower wattage.  I guess my concern is I just want to have more than needed and I can always turn it down

 

I don't want to damage my electrical system so I'm willing to do whatever it takes (within reason).  It's seeming like running a second battery should be pretty easy given that my car has a factory spot for a battery in the trunk.  I would plan to run the power from the battery in the engine bay to the rear battery and then ground it in the trunk. then power the amp off the battery in the trunk.  Question is what battery would I need/reccomended.  can they be had for under $200?

 

Regarding the Big 3 upgrade.  I have seen people ADD the zero gauge to existing setup and some remove? which is the correct way, or does it matter? seems easier possibly to just add to existing but not sure?

 

The Vehicle is a VW Passat TDI.

 

Can you explain the efficiency piece for the AMP? I have read this somewhere but my Buddy seems to think it makes no difference what OHM you run the amp at.  but I have seen efficiencys go from say 86 at 4 or 2 ohm and then 1ohm it's in the 70% range.  What does this mean in layman terms?

 

Next question is I'm pretty sure the XCON only comes in dual 1ohm or Dual 2ohm voice coils.  Which one would I get for a 4ohm application? If I wanted more power could I rewire the same sub for 1 or 2ohms? 

 

I am really leaning towards just adding the second battery for what it's worth though.

 

Sounds good on the box tuning, looking foward to hearing what you come up with.

 

 

Thanks again for all the help!!!!

[pmureika 31]

You would still need to do the big three with a second battery.

[EPerez 236]

I'm dumb. I forgot you said Passat!

 

If you do get a second battery I would say run it at 1 ohm then. Look at this batt http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-marine-battery-group-size-34m-price/p-02850134000P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2. It's a g34 and will be plenty for your bc2k. I have the g31 which is bigger and it's a great batt. A lot of people on here use it and love it.

 

The way you said to wire the second batt will be fine. I would use some welding cable. Much cheaper than car audio wire and it's OFC which is better. Welding supply.com has it but another place is cheaper. I'll try to find it.

 

With the efficiency of the amp, the lower the ohm load the more current (amps) it will pull. I'm not really sure how to explain it in details, but that's what happens. 

 

Dual 2ohm can be wired to 1 ohm and 4 ohm and Dual 1 ohm can be wired to .5 ohm and 2 ohms. That's with a single sub. So in your case you will want a DUAL 2 OHM.

 

If I were you I would go with the diehard platinum g34 and have it as a second batt.

[EPerez 236]

So what I came up with for a design is:

 

16.5H x 30W x 21D

 

Port: 15H x 4W x 44L

 

I put in a double baffle on the front.

 

All this comes out too 2.8 cubes tuned to 33hz with 60in2 of port area.

[ChadS13TDI 16]

I'm dumb. I forgot you said Passat!

 

If you do get a second battery I would say run it at 1 ohm then. Look at this batt http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-marine-battery-group-size-34m-price/p-02850134000P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2. It's a g34 and will be plenty for your bc2k. I have the g31 which is bigger and it's a great batt. A lot of people on here use it and love it.

 

The way you said to wire the second batt will be fine. I would use some welding cable. Much cheaper than car audio wire and it's OFC which is better. Welding supply.com has it but another place is cheaper. I'll try to find it.

 

With the efficiency of the amp, the lower the ohm load the more current (amps) it will pull. I'm not really sure how to explain it in details, but that's what happens. 

 

Dual 2ohm can be wired to 1 ohm and 4 ohm and Dual 1 ohm can be wired to .5 ohm and 2 ohms. That's with a single sub. So in your case you will want a DUAL 2 OHM.

 

If I were you I would go with the diehard platinum g34 and have it as a second batt.

 

What about your thoughts on the big three on adding wire vs replacing?

 

What is the welding wire? is it just "welding cable" that I'm looking for? sorry what is OFC?

 

Should I use this for all my 0/1 Gauge wiring?

 

Ok so Dual 2 Ohm VC is what I want.  I think that's good then I can run the sub at 4ohm's on completely stock electricals, OR if I get the upgrades done I will wire it to 1ohm.  I like that it gives me the flexibility.

 

How does that sears battery differ from the ones that I see sold on SSA?

[pmureika 31]

As long as it's a agm battery it will work.

[EPerez 236]

I'm dumb. I forgot you said Passat!

 

If you do get a second battery I would say run it at 1 ohm then. Look at this batt http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-marine-battery-group-size-34m-price/p-02850134000P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2. It's a g34 and will be plenty for your bc2k. I have the g31 which is bigger and it's a great batt. A lot of people on here use it and love it.

 

The way you said to wire the second batt will be fine. I would use some welding cable. Much cheaper than car audio wire and it's OFC which is better. Welding supply.com has it but another place is cheaper. I'll try to find it.

 

With the efficiency of the amp, the lower the ohm load the more current (amps) it will pull. I'm not really sure how to explain it in details, but that's what happens. 

 

Dual 2ohm can be wired to 1 ohm and 4 ohm and Dual 1 ohm can be wired to .5 ohm and 2 ohms. That's with a single sub. So in your case you will want a DUAL 2 OHM.

 

If I were you I would go with the diehard platinum g34 and have it as a second batt.

 

What about your thoughts on the big three on adding wire vs replacing?

 

What is the welding wire? is it just "welding cable" that I'm looking for? sorry what is OFC?

 

Should I use this for all my 0/1 Gauge wiring?

 

Ok so Dual 2 Ohm VC is what I want.  I think that's good then I can run the sub at 4ohm's on completely stock electricals, OR if I get the upgrades done I will wire it to 1ohm.  I like that it gives me the flexibility.

 

How does that sears battery differ from the ones that I see sold on SSA?

Add the wire right to the existing wire. If you need clarification on the big 3 let me know.

 

Yea welding cable is what your looking for. https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?Next::1:UNDEF:OR:terms::PA#A2 Here's the welding supply.com website. I would get 1/0 gauge. However many feet you will need. Just get the black. You can get the flexible orange but the black is flexible enough for what your doing. There's two types of wire you can get: OFC (Oxygen free copper) and CCA (Copper clad aluminum). OFC allows more current to go through but is a little more costly than CCA.

 

at 4 ohms you should still have the big 3 done though.

 

They're the same type of battery, the sears and XS power. An agm which is a deep cyle. These are the types of batteries you need for car audio. Both will get the job done, but I think the XS Power your paying more for the name. Don't get me wrong, they're great batts, but for what your doing the sears is cheaper and will still do the job great.

[EPerez 236]

So for the design, what do you think? Your max dimensions were way more than needed so I cut down a few inches on the width and depth. If your all good I can start up a 3d design.

[pmureika 31]

A agm battery is sealed and won't give off explosive gasses when being charged. Your starting battery or other starting type batteries will give off hydrogen gas which will explode!

[ChadS13TDI 16]

So for the design, what do you think? Your max dimensions were way more than needed so I cut down a few inches on the width and depth. If your all good I can start up a 3d design.

I think I like it but want to measure some tonight. If its a lot of work you can wait just in case I decide to try and tweak it. But from the sounds if it I like it.

[EPerez 236]

Okk that's fine. Just make sure you can fit your dimensions through the opening of the trunk. Do you want 45s in the port and in the corners of the box? Are you having the box facing rear with the port?

[ChadS13TDI 16]

Okk that's fine. Just make sure you can fit your dimensions through the opening of the trunk. Do you want 45s in the port and in the corners of the box? Are you having the box facing rear with the port?

 

Not sure if I want the 45's assuming that's better sure? sub and port would be rear facing yes.

[EPerez 236]

It allows for better airflow. It's not really a major benefit, but I always do it. If you want to do it I can put them in. If you don't it's fine.

 

Also do you want the sub flush mounted?

[ChadS13TDI 16]

It allows for better airflow. It's not really a major benefit, but I always do it. If you want to do it I can put them in. If you don't it's fine.

 

Also do you want the sub flush mounted?

 

Sure thing on both. 

 

one question about the OFC cable from the welding supply.  so you think that stuff is pliable enough to run without being a huge PITA? I don't want to have a tough time snapping trim pieces back together and whatnot. 

[EPerez 236]

I ran it and it was totally fine. It was as easy at regular car audio wire.

[ChadS13TDI 16]

I ran it and it was totally fine. It was as easy at regular car audio wire.

 

Ok cool. I will go with that then. 

 

I took a look against those measurements for the box and it looks good.  If you don't mind going the distance I will use your sketch to make my box.  

 

 

 

 

I took a look under the hood tonight to see the battery and where the alt was.  The alternator is hidden pretty good. Not looking forward to the big 3.  It Looks like I have at least 4gauge wire factory coming from the battery.

[EPerez 236]

Okk yea ill get the sketchup for you tomorrow. My big 3 was a bitch to do because of how the alt was. Sometimes it sucks to do the big 3.

[ChadS13TDI 16]

Okk yea ill get the sketchup for you tomorrow. My big 3 was a bitch to do because of how the alt was. Sometimes it sucks to do the big 3.

 

I am starting to second guess my amp choice.  If I do end up going the distance and upgrading all my electricals adding a second battery and whatnot I think I may be pushing to much power to the XCON?

 

that amp is rated at 2200RMS 1OHM at 13.8volts (I THINK).  I could be reading into this wrong but will it not push more if my voltages are in the 14's? stock right now I am pushing 14.3 volts.  after doing the big 3, adding a second battery, I think I will have no problem keeping that consistant?

 

what do you guys think?

[Notorious97200 339]

It's enough power for the Xcon. Just set the gain safely. It's better to have more power than less !

If you feel the sub doesn't like this power (doubtfull), you can turn the gain down a bit.

 

There are tutorials on how to set amp gain.

 

Personnally I turn the gain down, and turn the volume on my head unit at about 70%. Then I turn the gain up until the sub plays bad ! I turn it down until it sounds good without distortion.

And that's it.

No bass boost, no eq (flat eq).
Finally you plugg in the gain remote (to the max) if you have one with this amp.

 

Good luck

[ChadS13TDI 16]

It's enough power for the Xcon. Just set the gain safely. It's better to have more power than less !

If you feel the sub doesn't like this power (doubtfull), you can turn the gain down a bit.

 

There are tutorials on how to set amp gain.

 

Personnally I turn the gain down, and turn the volume on my head unit at about 70%. Then I turn the gain up until the sub plays bad ! I turn it down until it sounds good without distortion.

And that's it.

No bass boost, no eq (flat eq).

Finally you plugg in the gain remote (to the max) if you have one with this amp.

 

Good luck

Good Advice.

 

thanks. 

[EPerez 236]

Box design is all complete. I should have the sketchup and cut sheet for you by 4.