FINALLY, i need some help designing

[paulie 0]

well, after a long and horrid search for a sub, i finally purchased a near new eD 13Ov.2 (bought in Jan. '06). now, its time to design an enclosure. i know eD has 1 ft^3 for the recommended but i was just curious if there was anything better, as it shows 1 ft^3 for the Ov.2 and Kv.2. obviously, looking for sealed right now, not going ported YET. i want it to hit hard, hit all those double bass kick drums hard, want to get as low as possible, and decently loud. oh yea, going to be putting 400 watts @ 4 ohms to it. no plans for amp expansion right now. im looking for a cube, not a rectangle as well. i figured up on rockfordfosgate.com and a 13.75x13.75x13.75 cube (external) is right about 1ft^3 including displacement. should i go a little bit bigger than 1ft^3 or a little smaller? hope i explained everything well.

[Eldorado 0]

1ft^3 should be plenty.

[mrray13 30]

there is some physics based explantion on why you shouldn't use a cube. something about internal cancellation or something. hopefully one of the smart people here will help me out on this.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[CBFryman 2]

it isnt a problem with a subwoofer because the frequincy is so low the wavelength is longer than the enclosure (12" internal, maybe 13 if you are looking for 1cuft after displacement). You must have room for two andinodes and a node which is 1/2 a wave length. Even at 80Hz 1/2 a wave length is several feet.

So, for sub enclosures internal cancelation isnt an issue, and if it is astheticaly pleasing use it. However if you are talking home theatre for enclosues that will be playing midbass it can, and mostlikely will, become an issue.

[ANeonRider 3]

Square = waves that are present are nearly all the same length in a square enclosure. When they reflect, they start cancelling, don't need full, 1/2 or 1/4 wavelengths for that to be the case. Only if you want the sound to completely cancel out, and have silence, would that be the case.

[Eldorado 0]

Ive made a cube enclosure

Worked just fine

[CBFryman 2]

x2, untill you get up into the higher frequincies. I made note of that in my 9th grade exparament when i tested Marine plywood agianst MDF and OSB. The test encloues used PHI but my first enclosues where perfect cubes. it wasnt untill 380Hz that i started seeing problems that where almost all identical with all three matirals. 1/2 a wave length of 400Hz is ~ 1.25 feet and the internal dimentions of the enlcosues where 14.5"x14.5"x14.5" (was for a w0 10, ended up blowing it in testing and went the cheap way out on a road master 8 and new enclosues with 1/2" materials).

i would post the graphs to show you but i never completed that part of the exparament with thoes encloues after i blew the driver.

[paulie 0]

im a little confused, you guys are a little smarter than me. would a cube be ok or not? i read somewhere that a cube was actually better. who knows. im sure it will be fine. i also read that it helps if you put dynomat on the interior walls of the enclosure.........is that a good idea?? i would just use peal n seal. what about polyfill? here is a little sketch i drew up. all dimensions are external, and with the 3/4" wood, it has an interal volume of 1.13ft^3 and with displacement of the sub it will be about 1ft^3. how does it look? any other tips i need??

[ANeonRider 3]

meh, we have our different opinions it seems.

But, IMO , there is a reason why snailshell is the best shape to have an enclosure. No standing waves

[paulie 0]

meh, we have our different opinions it seems.

But, IMO , there is a reason why snailshell is the best shape to have an enclosure. No standing waves

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so the snailshell is your opinion....?? im not like dead set on this box, im definitely open to suggestions. i do want to go ported sometime, but im not the best at building boxes so i dont want to mess up a ported box. also i dont have a box for this sub right now, so i want something that i can build quick. right now all i have is a crappy pre-fab for 2 10's that i was gonna cut the hole bigger to fit the 12. i want to hear this sub as soon as i get it, im a little anxious.

[ANeonRider 3]

Guarantee ya, you don't have the fab skills to do a snailshell quite yet

I follow this rule:

Whatever my depth is, the width must be at least 1.25 times that.

so... 12" deep, width is 16".

16" deep, width is 20"

[mrray13 30]

Square = waves that are present are nearly all the same length in a square enclosure. When they reflect, they start cancelling, don't need full, 1/2 or 1/4 wavelengths for that to be the case. Only if you want the sound to completely cancel out, and have silence, would that be the case.

that is the explaination i was thinking of.

a cube might indeed work. it is easy to build and if it doesn't, your not out much.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[paulie 0]

Guarantee ya, you don't have the fab skills to do a snailshell quite yet

I follow this rule:

Whatever my depth is, the width must be at least 1.25 times that.

so... 12" deep, width is 16".

16" deep, width is 20"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so i figured up, a 15 h x 15 w x 12 d, is 1.107ft^3 which will be just a bit bigger than 1ft^3 after displacement. will that work better??

[ANeonRider 3]

Would work fine.

[paulie 0]

so did anyone have any advice as far as lining the inside walls of the box with peal and seal? also, how much polyfill should i put in there?

[ANeonRider 3]

I use neither. MDF is a good dampener all on its own if it is braced correctly, in a box that size, you won't have to worry about extra bracing. Polyfill, well, I've never used it, mainly because I don't feel the need to.

[paulie 0]

alrighty. i didnt use any polyfill in my last box and i noticed nothing different, but just checking.

[CBFryman 2]

Snail shells or transmission lines use the the first resonance point of the "tuning" frequincy to stop the rear and front waves from getting out of phase in the listening area...has nothing to do with shape.

[ANeonRider 3]

Snail shells or transmission lines use the the first resonance point of the "tuning" frequincy to stop the rear and front waves from getting out of phase in the listening area...has nothing to do with shape.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oops, I actually meant just a regular everyday shell shape, like a turtle. Basically the shape with no sides parallel to another. Cylindrical enclosures is pretty damn good as well.

[CBFryman 2]

k, thought you where thakning of something else

oh but tubes too long can cause problems with 1st resonance points of closed pipes.

[///M5 2,833]

I think you'd be fine with a cube, but sticking with Neon's 1.25 is an even better idea.

Snail

[paulie 0]

yea, that box that is 15 x 15 x 12 is using the "1.25" rule

[paulie 0]

sooooo i might be changing my mind...........it was raining today so i sat at home and started thinking. here's what i thought. "why should i build a sealed box and spend the money on that, when i plan to go ported someday anyways....??" soooo.......im thinking of going ported. my only worry is that i will mess it up and it not sound right, since ported boxes dont need a lot of messing up to majorly mess up and sound like poop. anyways, thinking of just taking my time, thoroughly figuring everything out, having the right tools, and making me a ported box. i am trying to keep the box as small as possible. i was looking through some enclosures and here is some choices but i have a few questions. first off, what is the difference, as far as sound, between a 1.5ft^3 @ 30Hz and a 2ft^3 @ 30Hz?? lastly, how big of a difference is there going to be between tuning at 28Hz and tuning to 30Hz?? here are some of the enclosures i found....

eD's

found on ICIX #1

found on ICIX #2

[mrray13 30]

sooooo i might be changing my mind...........it was raining today so i sat at home and started thinking. here's what i thought. "why should i build a sealed box and spend the money on that, when i plan to go ported someday anyways....??" soooo.......im thinking of going ported. my only worry is that i will mess it up and it not sound right, since ported boxes dont need a lot of messing up to majorly mess up and sound like poop. anyways, thinking of just taking my time, thoroughly figuring everything out, having the right tools, and making me a ported box. i am trying to keep the box as small as possible. i was looking through some enclosures and here is some choices but i have a few questions. first off, what is the difference, as far as sound, between a 1.5ft^3 @ 30Hz and a 2ft^3 @ 30Hz?? lastly, how big of a difference is there going to be between tuning at 28Hz and tuning to 30Hz?? here are some of the enclosures i found....

eD's

found on ICIX #1

found on ICIX #2

the biggest difference in 1.5 @ 30 and 2 @ 30 is going to be the low end extension. the larger box will reinforce it a bit better. the larger box will also be more efficient, requireing less power. the smaller box should give ya more punch has the frequencies rise. and lastly, the larger box has the potential to be the louder of the two.

with tuning that low, your not going to notice much of a difference between 28hz and 30....and, i'd shoot for the larger of the two boxes. IME, when you start tuning like that, small boxes just don't sound as good.

also, once you start tuning that low, you might as well go sealed. a 1.25-1.35ft^3 sealed box would give close ot the low end of the 1.5 ported one, sound crisper and not lose a whole bunch of output. IMHO anyway..

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[paulie 0]

the biggest difference in 1.5 @ 30 and 2 @ 30 is going to be the low end extension. the larger box will reinforce it a bit better. the larger box will also be more efficient, requireing less power. the smaller box should give ya more punch has the frequencies rise. and lastly, the larger box has the potential to be the louder of the two.

with tuning that low, your not going to notice much of a difference between 28hz and 30....and, i'd shoot for the larger of the two boxes. IME, when you start tuning like that, small boxes just don't sound as good.

also, once you start tuning that low, you might as well go sealed. a 1.25-1.35ft^3 sealed box would give close ot the low end of the 1.5 ported one, sound crisper and not lose a whole bunch of output. IMHO anyway..

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i have it in about a 1.1ft^3 and i think it sounds like it needs to be in a bit smaller box. would the Ov.2 sound good in that big of a box? what about like 1.75 or 2ft^3 @ 32Hz? would that be a good LSQ setup? i dont know what 28Hz sounds like or what 32Hz sounds like or how loud it gets so its kinda hard for me to decide, i just know i want it to hit pretty hard, hit every double bass kick drum note, and go low. i found those enclosures on caraudio.com, not icix. here is some others tuned to 32Hz...

2ft^3 @ 32Hz

another 2ft^3 @ 32Hz

1.75ft^3 @ 32Hz

the second 2 cube box works a little bit better for my car, but is either of the 2 cube boxes going to be better than the other? by the way, are these good enclosure designs?