building bandpass for 15, need some advice.

[jcarter1885 995]

[heftybone 4]

How do you know what you want if you don't model stuff and compare?

And please stop defending what you've done. Your biased, all of it could have been way better with nearly no extra effort.

how do i know what i want? that's a silly question. i don't know what i want, that's why i experiment and try new and different things. kinda like trial and error, but with a creative touch. I'm an artist at heart, and I'm very creative with my drawings and sculptures, how do i know what i want when i make a metal figure that stands 9' tall? i don't, i just start welding and see what happens, so that's the kind of thinking behind a sub enclosure, or anything else i build.

and how do you know that they could be better with a little more effort? have you ever heard anything I've made? then you can't really say they could've been better.

I'm not new to the car audio bit, people. I've heard plenty of boxes from store bought, to dealer bought/made,(which is exactly to spec), to custom to extreme customs (which is what i like to call mine!), and the ones i build sound the same as a properly measured/calculated enclosure and hit just as hard, and harder in alot of cases.

the one thing you guys are missin here is that there's not a sub out there that says "must be exactly 4.325 cubic foot", they all range with a couple cubes variation, so of course whatever i built is gonna work, because it was always close to whatever the recommended specs where, like i said i just didn't calculate or anything. 1x1x1 is a cubic foot, so go from there. it's not rocket science!

[heftybone 4]

you tried to get me to understand by sayin the shoe fits? that doesn't really make sense. and i aint tryin to be william badass, I'm just sayin nobody acts like that in real life, yes, saying the internet and it's forums are a fantasy world.

I'm not gettin emotional, i just want to know what's idiotic about my statements. and instead of saying that "x is idiotic", you just say the shoe fits. so i have to assume that there's nothing really idiotic, and you guys just feel like bein dicks to somebody.

alot of people build bandpass boxes. I've been building sub enclosures since i was 14 and puttin em on my bike along with a hu, battery and 2 5" coax, with crossovers and a jensen amp. so yeah, that was idiotic, but it was fun and a learning experience, just like everything else in life.

so i want to put a 15" high powered sub in a bandpass box. what is wrong with that? i see shit on youtube all the time where people have a bunch of subs in bandpass boxes. but I'm an idiot when i want to do it?

or is it because i said i never made one to specs? i said before that it was just not exactly calculated, and I've never had a bad sounding, non-hitting sub. even from some pyramid super pros.

anf i still don't get how you can say that one makes an idiotic comment, but they're not am idiot. just the comment was, but not you. ok. thanks for clarifying and i assure you that won't be the last idiotic comment that comes frome my fingers.

So because there are thousands of idiots on youtube, doesn't mean you have to follow them.

Research bandpass vs ported box.

Edit: I saw M5 already explained most of it.

i wasn't doin research off youtube man, that's just somethin i watch for enjoyment. i build what i want (which i kinda explained in my short story of a reply), and however it turns out is how it goes. i surely don't follow the crowd, but if i like somethin then i might use it for inspiration and build from it.

for me, it's all about what i want and like. if it turns out good then great, if not then I'll do it again and again until it's right and i like it. I'm not afraid to experiment and build somethin just to tear it apart and do it again.

but I'll say again, I've never had a box turn out bad, i.e. with shit sound or no bass. they've always slammed. and with some of the cheap subs I've had and the hit that I've achieved with them, I've never screwed it up in my opinion.

bottom line, I've always been happy. and that's what it's all about, right?

The problem with saying they turned out great is that you have no reference point. If you actually designed the enclosure properly than perhaps you would have a better appreciation after listening, but until then you're content by ignorance. I'm not trying to be a dick, but it's sort of like someone building an engine and being content because it makes 300hp, but it could have been improved upon and made 500hp. But in comparison to an engine in a honda civic it's great.

the last time i built up an engine, it was an 89 lx 5.0, and i built it around my budget. it made close to 500hp, had 10:1 compression, pete jackson timing gear, windsor jr 58cc heads and gt40 intake and a 347 forged stroker kit. it was pretty bad ass.

that's not the same as me building something, i can apply my creativity to something i create, and do things differently then the regular person does. kinda like an outside the box type of thinking. i don't follow the clones of the earth that do what they're told and conform in peace. talk about content through ignorance, or whatever you said. i know it's right there^ somewhere, i don't care. it's not ignorance when you've seen box a and box b and you just want somethin different.

so to say I'm content because i haven't experienced anything elss is ludicrous, i haven't been in a cave for the last 30 years, I've seen plenty.

hell what's funny is these guys that have the exact spec boxes, and they're shakin their mirror, and happy because it's hittin! I've never been like that, i can see the potential of a sub and usually influence the enclosure to release it. I'm never a victim of conformity!

it's a shame that so many people are, and don't even realize it!

[heftybone 4]

like i said about the enclosure I'm doin now, I'm tweakin the port to make it longer because i want to see what it does. am i screwin it up? perhaps, but again, i will fix it if it is.

here's what I'm gettin at though, i will put a video up on youtube of this finished product when it's all hooked up and before the sub is broke in and as the box sits regardless if it hits like shit or not. then we can all see what i can do. I'm not bragging by no means, i just know that when people have assumed that I've had 2-15's and it was one 12 in a bandpass that i built (and just threw together!), then i must be doin somethin right. and no, it wasn't just one occasion with an ignorant passer-by, it was all the time, everywhere i went with that particular setup. that jl did some work, baby!

anyway, I'm just not afraid to experiment, there's that word again, you guys should try it sometime, evidently you'd be surprised at what you can come up with!

hahaahaaa, you guys should see wjat i intend to do to my 01 cobra when i make a competition level system, I'm gonna have the subs behind the front seats, firing toward the back, and have as long of a bandpass enclosure as i can make going into the trunk amd back into the cabin. it's gonna be fun fun fun!!!

[Thumpper 266]

 I think you should just break down and get a sub with a properly designed enclosure and call it a day

 

your system is obviously lacking in the bass department or you wouldn't be here in the first place

 

 

30 years of building the wrong box is 30 years of listening to something that needs improvement...time to box up

[heftybone 4]

I think you should just break down and get a sub with a properly designed enclosure and call it a day

your system is obviously lacking in the bass department or you wouldn't be here in the first place

30 years of building the wrong box is 30 years of listening to something that needs improvement...time to box up

this is amusing, you think I'm so ignorant that I've been content with some shabby bass all my life. yeah the little 8" sub i had on my bike when i was 14 was shabby, but yeah. for you to make an assumption like that, well let's just say that I'm not ignorant. and i asked a question of is 6" too close to that sub. just wantin someone with experience with that sub, not subs in general.

and why in the hell do you think the only subs I've ever heard have been mine? that's ridiculous. serious dude, I've been to alot of places in my life, we didn't always have the internet, you know.

Edited January 30, 2015 by heftybone

[heftybone 4]

my system is lacking bass, yeah right! i can shake my rear-view mirror to the point where i can hardly see out of it!!! oh yeah, that's 2-15's baby!!! i got almost 200watts goin to em too! i know it don't get no better then this!! heeyuck!

[Thumpper 266]

where does it state I used the word ignorant ???

 

dude.......   my statement is there to help  ....   if you want to put a sub woofer in a shoe box I don't care........

Edited January 30, 2015 by Thumpper

[heftybone 4]

where does it state I used the word ignorant ???

dude....... my statement is there to help .... if you want to put a sub woofer in a shoe box I don't care........

i never said that you called me ignorant. i was talking about how you said 30 years of building the wrong box is 30 years of needing improvement. i was simply stating that I'm aware of the potential in sub woofers, and i do attain said potential. if i don't like the way it sounds or hits, then i change it. i love bass that punches you in the gut then smacks you in the face! I've never had a problem with any of the enclosures I've built lacking bass or musical quality.

except for the 18 i put in a trash can, an the 12 that was in a bucket. both very hollow sounding, but they still hit fairly well, kinda like a bass tube after we stuffed some shit on the inside to muffle the resonance of the plastic. but i didn't build those enclosures, rubbermaid did!

[///M5 2,833]

Trevor didn't say it, but I will. You are showing ignorance in every post by defending what you are doing. A rudimentary understanding of acoustics and speakers would go a long way in helping you. We all start somewhere and think we know more than we do at some point, the hard part is turning the corner backwards and realizing it isn't enough.

This has NOTHING to do with being artistic. You can make an enclosure look however you want, but don't do it with the inside volume that determines the enclosure itself nor the port. Arbitrarily making a port longer COMPLETELY changes the box behavior. Personally when I change a box arbitrary is the last thing I am looking for.

[///M5 2,833]

I'm aware of the potential in sub woofers, and i do attain said potential.

Your posts say that you don't. VERY clearly.

[heftybone 4]

oh, and i don't have a system at the moment, I'm just building a box for the fi sp415 I'm gettin. i changed it from the sq hdc4. and yes I've been talking with nick at fi and he's given me exact specs on magnet diameter and taper length and everything i need. he doesn't seem to have a problem with anything i want to build for that sub. and he made the damn thing! hell he's encouraged my experimentation.

[jcarter1885 995]

Stop feeding the trolls.

Oh yeah, go ahead and mark this negative too

[pmureika 31]

You think grown men could have a intelligent conversations but heftybone has chosen the wrong path.  

[heftybone 4]

I'm aware of the potential in sub woofers, and i do attain said potential.

Your posts say that you don't. VERY clearly.

dude, i may not have a technical knowledge such as yourself. as you seem to know alot about this. what I'm wanting to know now is, how do you know what won't work if you've never tried it? is it just because your learnings say different, or because an app says that it won't work? i enjoy learning more when I'm trying different things. i don't understand how let's say a 12 can be any better than what I've gotten out of them. i could almost flip a quarter on the roof of my vw fox with 1 12 in a bandpass in the trunk, I'd say that's pretty good and i don't see how it could be any harder except with more power as that one only had around 400watts goin to it. it was a 600rms sub if i remember correctly.

like I've said, the bottom line is that I've never had a sub box that didn't sound good or hit hard. and I'm not ignorant to the potential of subs, i know when a sub isn't reaching it's full potential. so how could they be better if they are hitting hard and sounding good? by making sure they utilize the exact air space? I'm sure they where though, or else they wouldn't have sounded good, right?

granted, i do not know as much as you about the correct spec building method, but i know how to measure a box and say, well that's 4cubes it's too much and back it down. I'm not just blindly throwing pieces of wood in a pile, squirting glue all over it and callin it a box! i do add some screws too!

seriously though, if i make the port longer then it calls for, what's gonna happen exactly with the sound or feel of the bass? am i going to diminish the quality or the feel of it? i assumed it would sustain the notes longer. again this is me experimenting and just because you say it's not good isn't going to stop me from trying.

you can build boxes to spec all day long and assume that something different isn't going to be good. but until you try and see for yourself, it's always just an assumption.

[heftybone 4]

Stop feeding the trolls.

Oh yeah, go ahead and mark this negative too

dude, I've seen alot of your posts and you just follow behind the popular guys and agree with them. so yeah, i won't feed the trolls!

[pmureika 31]

 

 

I'm aware of the potential in sub woofers, and i do attain said potential.

Your posts say that you don't. VERY clearly.

dude, i may not have a technical knowledge such as yourself. as you seem to know alot about this. what I'm wanting to know now is, how do you know what won't work if you've never tried it? is it just because your learnings say different, or because an app says that it won't work? i enjoy learning more when I'm trying different things. i don't understand how let's say a 12 can be any better than what I've gotten out of them. i could almost flip a quarter on the roof of my vw fox with 1 12 in a bandpass in the trunk, I'd say that's pretty good and i don't see how it could be any harder except with more power as that one only had around 400watts goin to it. it was a 600rms sub if i remember correctly.

like I've said, the bottom line is that I've never had a sub box that didn't sound good or hit hard. and I'm not ignorant to the potential of subs, i know when a sub isn't reaching it's full potential. so how could they be better if they are hitting hard and sounding good? by making sure they utilize the exact air space? I'm sure they where though, or else they wouldn't have sounded good, right?

granted, i do not know as much as you about the correct spec building method, but i know how to measure a box and say, well that's 4cubes it's too much and back it down. I'm not just blindly throwing pieces of wood in a pile, squirting glue all over it and callin it a box! i do add some screws too!

seriously though, if i make the port longer then it calls for, what's gonna happen exactly with the sound or feel of the bass? am i going to diminish the quality or the feel of it? i assumed it would sustain the notes longer. again this is me experimenting and just because you say it's not good isn't going to stop me from trying.

you can build boxes to spec all day long and assume that something different isn't going to be good. but until you try and see for yourself, it's always just an assumption.

 

Why does everything have to be a 4th order build. Stop and listen to what people are telling you !

 

Some of us what to hear the music as it was played. Not just overpowering bass.

Edited January 30, 2015 by pmureika

[///M5 2,833]

what I'm wanting to know now is, how do you know what won't work if you've never tried it?

How does an engine builder know that a cam overlap of 90deg won't work if he's never tried it?

Exactly why I recommended that you start learning instead of trying. It is really rather simple.

[heftybone 4]

You think grown men could have a intelligent conversations but heftybone has chosen the wrong path.

i believe I've kept my composure and am just trying to defend my way of thinking. I'm not bashing anyone, in fact my post to m5 includes a compliment to him. well i might've just bashed jay-cee, but he kinda called me a troll.

anyway, that's the way i think and feel and just because some people don't agree with it, doesn't make it wrong.

if I've never gotten bad sounds or low hit then i don't see why everyone thinks it was wrong. i would agree with all of you if i experienced distortion or that shabby waning sound that some subs do at higher hz, usually in a box they've gotten from the local dealer, which is to spec. I've never had anything but nice smooth deep sound throughout the range with hard hit.

can't we all just, get along?

[///M5 2,833]

So when you built your Mustang did you approximate the grind on your cam?

Seriously, the analogy is even a little weak since the mathematics behind a subwoofer are very simple and on a cam rather complex.

[heftybone 4]

what I'm wanting to know now is, how do you know what won't work if you've never tried it?

How does an engine builder know that a cam overlap of 90deg won't work if he's never tried it?

Exactly why I recommended that you start learning instead of trying. It is really rather simple.

actually i think it was iskendarian that played (experimented) with different degree angles and lobe durations to find the perfect combinations. he didn't just go by what everyone was saying. he practiced trial and error until it was right.

which now i do spec them more. i always get within range of the recommended air space, but i still like to try somethin different too. like the longer port, for example.

[pmureika 31]

 

You think grown men could have a intelligent conversations but heftybone has chosen the wrong path.

i believe I've kept my composure and am just trying to defend my way of thinking. I'm not bashing anyone, in fact my post to m5 includes a compliment to him. well i might've just bashed jay-cee, but he kinda called me a troll.

anyway, that's the way i think and feel and just because some people don't agree with it, doesn't make it wrong.

if I've never gotten bad sounds or low hit then i don't see why everyone thinks it was wrong. i would agree with all of you if i experienced distortion or that shabby waning sound that some subs do at higher hz, usually in a box they've gotten from the local dealer, which is to spec. I've never had anything but nice smooth deep sound throughout the range with hard hit.

can't we all just, get along?

 

I guess not if you won't listen to the other solution and think that yours is the only way. Grow up man.

[heftybone 4]

I'm aware of the potential in sub woofers, and i do attain said potential.

Your posts say that you don't. VERY clearly.

dude, i may not have a technical knowledge such as yourself. as you seem to know alot about this. what I'm wanting to know now is, how do you know what won't work if you've never tried it? is it just because your learnings say different, or because an app says that it won't work? i enjoy learning more when I'm trying different things. i don't understand how let's say a 12 can be any better than what I've gotten out of them. i could almost flip a quarter on the roof of my vw fox with 1 12 in a bandpass in the trunk, I'd say that's pretty good and i don't see how it could be any harder except with more power as that one only had around 400watts goin to it. it was a 600rms sub if i remember correctly.

like I've said, the bottom line is that I've never had a sub box that didn't sound good or hit hard. and I'm not ignorant to the potential of subs, i know when a sub isn't reaching it's full potential. so how could they be better if they are hitting hard and sounding good? by making sure they utilize the exact air space? I'm sure they where though, or else they wouldn't have sounded good, right?

granted, i do not know as much as you about the correct spec building method, but i know how to measure a box and say, well that's 4cubes it's too much and back it down. I'm not just blindly throwing pieces of wood in a pile, squirting glue all over it and callin it a box! i do add some screws too!

seriously though, if i make the port longer then it calls for, what's gonna happen exactly with the sound or feel of the bass? am i going to diminish the quality or the feel of it? i assumed it would sustain the notes longer. again this is me experimenting and just because you say it's not good isn't going to stop me from trying.

you can build boxes to spec all day long and assume that something different isn't going to be good. but until you try and see for yourself, it's always just an assumption.

Why does everything have to be a 4th order build. Stop and listen to what people are telling you !

Some of us what to hear the music as it was played. Not just overpowering bass.

i thought that's what midbass woofers where for? feel the sub, hear the music. it's not like i couldn't hear anything but bass, i love music and like to experience the full range of whatever I'm listening to.

[heftybone 4]

You think grown men could have a intelligent conversations but heftybone has chosen the wrong path.

i believe I've kept my composure and am just trying to defend my way of thinking. I'm not bashing anyone, in fact my post to m5 includes a compliment to him. well i might've just bashed jay-cee, but he kinda called me a troll.

anyway, that's the way i think and feel and just because some people don't agree with it, doesn't make it wrong.

if I've never gotten bad sounds or low hit then i don't see why everyone thinks it was wrong. i would agree with all of you if i experienced distortion or that shabby waning sound that some subs do at higher hz, usually in a box they've gotten from the local dealer, which is to spec. I've never had anything but nice smooth deep sound throughout the range with hard hit.

can't we all just, get along?

I guess not if you won't listen to the other solution and think that yours is the only way. Grow up man.

dude, i never said mine is the only way, perhaps it is for me, but I'm not tryin to get you guys to change, you're tryin to change me. so, nyaahh i won't grow up!! tthhhpppttt!!! :p

[heftybone 4]

So when you built your Mustang did you approximate the grind on your cam?

Seriously, the analogy is even a little weak since the mathematics behind a subwoofer are very simple and on a cam rather complex.

i must admit that i did choose the z cam from ford. it had great specs and it was cheap at the time.

and i understand completely what your telling me, so don't get me wrong and think that I'm not listening. i realize that these woofers require certain spaces to work in and even how the material of the box changes the sound. don't think that I'm just buildin whatever i want however big or small, i do measure and everything but as far as sub placement or things like that i didn't usually consider.

and basically you're saying if i did then it would have been even better than what i had back then. i wish i would've learned more back then, but in the 80's & 90's the only way we had to learn that is from the guy that knew more then you. which was mitch at the local stereo shop. he never really got into those specifics, but again, I've never had one wrong because as i learn now i see that my placement was correct, so i guess i just got lucky. but it was just somethin that i figured. you know, it looks good there, or lets try pointing it to the rear etc.. again i was young back then, but i always had fun doin it.

and i do appreciate your help, and I'd like you to assess this new box that I'm doin and see what i could or should do different. except for the port, I'm still tryin that to see what happens. like i said, it's very easy for me to remedy anything about this particular enclosure, because of the way I'm building it.