Fi Q sounds interesting...would this work out?

[Deadpool 0]

My Civic sedan has 4 8" JL 8W4IBs in the rear deck. I'm going to "temporarily" disconnect them and put a standard sealed enclosure in the trunk (facing backwards most likely). I'm going to put a couple of 12" subs in there to add some volume to my normal listening fare: Tool, various rap, Tool, other rock, and maybe some Tool.

Thing is, the system is a SQ setup and I don't want to sacrifice much of that. The guys from Buwalda/Hybrid Audio turned me on to the Fi Q series.

So here's the setup:

HU: Alpine IVA-W200

EQ: Alpine PXA-H701

Mid/Tweet amp: DLS A4 (4 ch)

Midbass amp: DLS A3 (2 ch)

Sub amp: DLS A6 (870w@2ohm, 1200w@1ohm)

The front speakers are all Hybrid Audio. So would a couple of Q 12s work well in this application? The box will be sealed to keep the size to a minimum (Civic's don't have huge trunks). I was thinking a couple of 1 ohm Qs in a series/parallel config should present 1 ohm to the A6 which should feed the Q's 600w each. Yea or nay?

Thanks guys!

[JoeHemi57 0]

Personally i'd go with either a 15" Q or AA Havoc, or maybe a pair of SSD's with the copper coil option.

[JimJ 11]

What don't you like now?

[Deadpool 0]

The 15" isn't really an option, as the trunk isn't all that big and I don't want to lose all my trunk space. The height of the enclosure would be an issue. Also, I'd think two 12s would out perform a 15 anyway, no?

Jim, the system sounds excellent, but you can tell when you crank it up that the 8s start to complain a bit before I want to stop turning it up, ya know? Bottom line: sometimes I just want a bit more of a kick in the ass.

[ANeonRider 3]

IB... the answer to keeping that trunk space

[Deadpool 0]

IB... the answer to keeping that trunk space

Haha. I know. The 8s are already IB in the rear deck. Whatever subs I end up with will be in a sealed enclosure to keep size down and SQ up. Two 12s to get the SPL up a bit while staying within the requirements.

JoeHemi, what would make the copper core SSDs a better choice than the Q?

[///M5 2,833]

Thing is, the system is a SQ setup and I don't want to sacrifice much of that.

I am having a really hard time understanding how 4 8's can't really overpower your front stage.

[Deadpool 0]

I am having a really hard time understanding how 4 8's can't really overpower your front stage.

Not at all. In fact, it seems to me the front stage can handle more volume than the 8s. For example, if I have something on with heavy bass notes I can turn the volume on the IVA-W200 up to 22 or 23. At that point, the front stage is crystal clear, but the 8s are at their limits. If I turn it up one more notch I have to fear losing a sub or two...you know how you can just hear it coming? Remember, these are the old school JL 8IB4s.

The front stage is Hybrid Audio Legatia 3 way set: 1" tweeter, 3" midrange, and 6" midbass.

So...

2x12" subs sealed in the trunk of a Civic Sedan. Amp will be delivering 1200w total, so 600 to each sub. Options on the table right now are:

Fi Q

JL 12w3 v3

Image Dynamics IDQ 12

I've seen people suggest the SSD 12 with copper core, but don't have enough info on that to put it on the table as an option.

Edited August 29, 2007 by Deadpool

[bld 25 0]

I am having a really hard time understanding how 4 8's can't really overpower your front stage.

Do one Q ported. That will save some serious money, and in general one ported is close to the output of 2 sealed. You won't lose any sq if the box is done right.

[Deadpool 0]

Do one Q ported. That will save some serious money, and in general one ported is close to the output of 2 sealed. You won't lose any sq if the box is done right.

Hmm...I'm not trying to spend a fortune, but I'm also not concerned with the money in this case. A pair of 12s is well within budget. Let's say the budget for the sub/subs is $600. Still, a single ported 12 could be an option I suppose. I'd think there would be some sacrifice in either SPL or SQ going from two 12s to a single 12, no? Any other reasons to go with a single ported 12?

[MTA 0]

the 8's cant keep up because they are JL... now might be a different story if u had 8w7... but im not a big JL fan period...

I would say maybe talk to the guys here at Fi and have them build u 4 Fi Q8" if the motors will fit the baskets and that should solve your problem , and just build a small sealled box under therear deck for them... u will have 80% trunk and subs that can handle the power

the otherthing is I understand u like your trunk space and Ib does that for you...but it is difficult to keep control with that big of a trunk with that much power... I simply dont think they can handle 300 watts each in IB setup.

btw..how sealed is your trunk from the rest of the car? do your seats fold down? if so are they properly sealed to the trunk when they are up? any airleaks in IB will act like a leaking sealed box and cause the subs to loose control under higher output levels

just my 2 c worth...

[Deadpool 0]

the 8's cant keep up because they are JL... now might be a different story if u had 8w7... but im not a big JL fan period...

I would say maybe talk to the guys here at Fi and have them build u 4 Fi Q8" if the motors will fit the baskets and that should solve your problem , and just build a small sealled box under therear deck for them... u will have 80% trunk and subs that can handle the power

the otherthing is I understand u like your trunk space and Ib does that for you...but it is difficult to keep control with that big of a trunk with that much power... I simply dont think they can handle 300 watts each in IB setup.

btw..how sealed is your trunk from the rest of the car? do your seats fold down? if so are they properly sealed to the trunk when they are up? any airleaks in IB will act like a leaking sealed box and cause the subs to loose control under higher output levels

just my 2 c worth...

They are likely NOT sealed off as well as they should be due to having fold-down seats. That may well contribute to the problem. Even properly sealed off though, I'm doubt the 8s would give me the SPL I'm looking for right now. These 8s are actually 8 ohm speakers so the four of them get about 200-215w each.

Regardless though, I'm not wanting to change that or anything about the install of the 8s. They are great with anything as long as I don't turn them up too loud. I'm just wanting to toss in a well made enclosure with 1 or 2 12s in it. It's gotta sound very good and gotta make my ears tingle a bit.

I want to be able to take the 12s out if I'm going on a road trip and/or need the extra trunk space. Then I'll still have the 8s in there. Keep in mind I'll disconnect the 8s when the 12s are running and vice-versa.

I've seen suggestions to go with a pair of copper core SSD 12s at my power level (each getting 600w). I could maybe go that route. I could also consider a single ported 12 which could get the whole 1200w. If I do that, I want to ensure that it won't have much less SPL than the pair of 12s. Hard to think that a single 12 would out-SPL a pair of 12s, even ported on twice the power, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll be ready to purchase/order tomorrow so keep the input coming please!

Thanks!!!

Edited August 29, 2007 by Deadpool

[JimJ 11]

There's your problem.

Seal off the trunk like a proper IB install...all the usable trunk space you'd want, and the frequency response would kill a ported box, no comparison.

How do you know what the potential output is when you don't have an install that shows what they can do

[MTA 0]

the 8's cant keep up because they are JL... now might be a different story if u had 8w7... but im not a big JL fan period...

I would say maybe talk to the guys here at Fi and have them build u 4 Fi Q8" if the motors will fit the baskets and that should solve your problem , and just build a small sealled box under therear deck for them... u will have 80% trunk and subs that can handle the power

the otherthing is I understand u like your trunk space and Ib does that for you...but it is difficult to keep control with that big of a trunk with that much power... I simply dont think they can handle 300 watts each in IB setup.

btw..how sealed is your trunk from the rest of the car? do your seats fold down? if so are they properly sealed to the trunk when they are up? any airleaks in IB will act like a leaking sealed box and cause the subs to loose control under higher output levels

just my 2 c worth...

They are likely NOT sealed off as well as they should be due to having fold-down seats. That may well contribute to the problem. Even properly sealed off though, I'm doubt the 8s would give me the SPL I'm looking for right now. These 8s are actually 8 ohm speakers so the four of them get about 200-215w each.

Regardless though, I'm not wanting to change that or anything about the install of the 8s. They are great with anything as long as I don't turn them up too loud. I'm just wanting to toss in a well made enclosure with 1 or 2 12s in it. It's gotta sound very good and gotta make my ears tingle a bit.

I want to be able to take the 12s out if I'm going on a road trip and/or need the extra trunk space. Then I'll still have the 8s in there. Keep in mind I'll disconnect the 8s when the 12s are running and vice-versa.

I've seen suggestions to go with a pair of copper core SSD 12s at my power level (each getting 600w). I could maybe go that route. I could also consider a single ported 12 which could get the whole 1200w. If I do that, I want to ensure that it won't have much less SPL than the pair of 12s. Hard to think that a single 12 would out-SPL a pair of 12s, even ported on twice the power, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll be ready to purchase/order tomorrow so keep the input coming please!

Thanks!!!

if thats the way you want to stay then the only concern I would have is the pressure from the 12 or 12's acting against the 8's since they are IB no protection... the otehr would be to build a single 12 box ported facing forward and tune it really low and allow the 8" to only play low midbass 50-120hz and let the 12 play 50 and down... if u get a sub with the proper ciol config and a well designed box it will be better than a pair of 12's in a sealed box.. and your 8's wont suffer from the 12"

[JimJ 11]

and tune it really low and allow the 8" to only play low midbass 50-120hz and let the 12 play 50 and down...

*shudders*

[Deadpool 0]

if thats the way you want to stay then the only concern I would have is the pressure from the 12 or 12's acting against the 8's since they are IB no protection... the otehr would be to build a single 12 box ported facing forward and tune it really low and allow the 8" to only play low midbass 50-120hz and let the 12 play 50 and down... if u get a sub with the proper ciol config and a well designed box it will be better than a pair of 12's in a sealed box.. and your 8's wont suffer from the 12"

Yeah I do have some concerns about the pressure of the 12/12s on the 8s. Would it be a major issue? If so, and if I really like the 12/12s, I may decide to simply remove the 8s. I could at least do so to see if it makes a big difference. That'd also give a nice open pathway for the sound of the 12s to enter the cabin. I thought about leaving the 8s just for midbass, but don't really want to add another amp.

Not sure if your last sentence there was, or could, stand alone, but it brought me back to this question.

Would a single Q12 in a well designed and built ported box, and running on 1200w...

outperform two SSD or Q 12s in a well designed and built sealed box?

[///M5 2,833]

I really think it is an installation issue with the 8's. Sealing off the front and back waves is completely necessary for IB. Before spending any money I would give that a shot. Step number 2 would be to replace the 4 8's with 4 other 8's that actually can do what you want all the time. Why fight with a box when you don't need to? Perhaps since you already have a baffle you could slap a pair of 15's IB on it instead as well. You currently have nearly the perfect alignment for a car stereo setup and you want to go away from it

[Deadpool 0]

I really think it is an installation issue with the 8's. Sealing off the front and back waves is completely necessary for IB. Before spending any money I would give that a shot. Step number 2 would be to replace the 4 8's with 4 other 8's that actually can do what you want all the time. Why fight with a box when you don't need to? Perhaps since you already have a baffle you could slap a pair of 15's IB on it instead as well. You currently have nearly the perfect alignment for a car stereo setup and you want to go away from it

Well, the baffle is not easily rebuilt. It couldn't take anything larger than the 8s anyway--the rear deck is pretty small back there and I'm done cutting on it.

The front and back waves likley muddle a bit through the rear seat. I might be able to seal it off better. Not easily, but I could probably do it. Still, I probably wouldn't just replace those 8s. I really like the setup as is which is why I really don't want to significantly change it. It's great in many ways, but sometimes I just want quite a bit more SPL than those 8s can put out. Again, I don't want to swap out for other 8s. I'll try putting some kind of baffle between the rear seats and the trunk and see if it helps. Still, I really don't think the 8s will give me the SPL I'm looking for atm.

Remember, I'm wanting to put in a box that I can remove later. It'll beef up my SPL a bit. So, no. I don't want to "go away from it" per se. I just want some more SPL for a while without changing anything permanently. But that doesn't mean I want to just throw in some crappy gear. It's still gotta sound good...just louder. Significantly louder.

Edited August 29, 2007 by Deadpool

[///M5 2,833]

Go for a pair of Q's then.

[Deadpool 0]

Go for a pair of Q's then.

LOL damn you! I had just kinda "settled" on the copper core SSRs. So at 600w each, in a sealed enclosure, the Qs vs. the SSRs...

Ugh. Shouldn't be so damn hard to make a decision that's not exactly life and death.

Edited August 30, 2007 by Deadpool

[Fi Car Audio 64]

We can tweak the SSDs to work a little better in the sealed setup (provided I know that the subs will be used in a sealed application when they are ordered). I would personally take the pair of sealed subs over the single ported 99% of the time. You will have similar output near tuning with the sealed subs vs ported, but more top end as well as a more natural frequency response overall.

Thanks,

Scott

[Deadpool 0]

We can tweak the SSDs to work a little better in the sealed setup (provided I know that the subs will be used in a sealed application when they are ordered). I would personally take the pair of sealed subs over the single ported 99% of the time. You will have similar output near tuning with the sealed subs vs ported, but more top end as well as a more natural frequency response overall.

Thanks,

Scott

Scott,

Thanks for the reply. After all the indecision I got tired of going back and forth and ended up picking up a couple of 12W6v2s for a pretty decent price. I think I'll be happy with them. Thanks for all the input guys.