SQ sub choices

[dem beats 1,223]

For the record....

I would say that you don't NEED 1500 watts no. but I have never ever had an issue with having too much overhead in the sub stage. I am more familiar with home audio however. I really have never experienced a situation where there has been too much room for more bass in my own personal audio set ups.

I will also preface everything with the fact that even after I deaden my truck, there will still be a much much louder sound floor than in home audio, and I see diminishing returns much sooner than I would in home audio. At home I see there being a reason to have seperate stereo and HT equipment, for example. In car I want something that can provide me with acuracy and forcefullness.

I'm not looking for some street thumper set on destroying the universe burping down the street. But I do in fact listen to music that is verry bass and mid bass heavy. I just realized now in fact that the 4 channel amp I had is much less powerfull than I have thought originaly, so I may need to upgrade that also.

I listen to just about all music. I Have been listenign to more and more jazz and "lounge music", diana krall is a fave for example. I listen to quite a bit of rock not so much metal, I listen to quite a bit of hip hop (i.e. Jur5 Atmosphere etc.)not so much current thumpity rap. I listen to found sound, the postal service is an ecample. I also listen to some pretty bass heavy electronic. not junle not breakbeat so much, more supreme beings of leasure, BT, a bit of casual house and in fact a bit of verry gentle breakbeat. A large selection of rat pack music. I also like to make my organs vibrate with subbass organ tunes sometimes or the occasional Bass mechanics type track or crystal method.

This isn't directed to you Sean or anyone else, just a general statement. I really hope this doesn't turn into a "that's not sq" type thread. If we're going there I'll drop it, and just do my own thing, I just appreciate the advice and knowledge here, and think that if I could express what I was thinking I could probably find the correct answer.

[///M5 2,833]

It won't go that way. The real question is how is your installation going to be biased. You ask for SQ subs, but if you are going to wang them away it will really, really change the responses. There is a huge difference between how you would typically setup a system for Diana Krall versus Hip Hop. Sort of exactly why there is confusion, if you ask for SQ you'll get it, just make sure that is what you want.

[ragnaroksq 0]

i vote for the icon 12. my friend has a morel 12, and it does sound very good, but i like my 12 and i can't see paying the extra money for the morel. i have my 12 in a 1.5 sealed enclosure and it works fine. just my .02 cents

[ragnaroksq 0]

It won't go that way. The real question is how is your installation going to be biased. You ask for SQ subs, but if you are going to wang them away it will really, really change the responses. There is a huge difference between how you would typically setup a system for Diana Krall versus Hip Hop. Sort of exactly why there is confusion, if you ask for SQ you'll get it, just make sure that is what you want.

x 1,000,000

[dem beats 1,223]

It won't go that way. The real question is how is your installation going to be biased. You ask for SQ subs, but if you are going to wang them away it will really, really change the responses. There is a huge difference between how you would typically setup a system for Diana Krall versus Hip Hop. Sort of exactly why there is confusion, if you ask for SQ you'll get it, just make sure that is what you want.

DO WANT DOWANTDOWANTDOWANTDOWANT

lol

Wanging sounds funny comming from you. I think you reinforced what I do was hoping to acheive, I don't see why a driver can't play reqium mass and then lateralus directly after. If it has good responce and accuracy I would have assumed it could to both... I don't understand why I can';t accurately play what both recordings have to offer.

I think I put too much thought into things....

Edited April 16, 2008 by dem beats

[///M5 2,833]

It isn't that the driver can't, but your setup won't. If you have your subs blend perfectly with the front, they aren't setup to wang. You could have a couple different settings, but that requires some processing.

[dem beats 1,223]

This is true.... I have the 880 so I can work the settings just about anyway I need. I think I can even preset a different set up...

I'll have to look into that more.

I think I do have the fact that the best sub systems SQ or otherwise have all used 15"+ woofers to reproduce sound accurately and I become skeptical thinking a smaller guy will do the job. Again I come from a home audio and it takes much more speaker to fill a whole room with bass needed.

[dem beats 1,223]

Let me take this overgrown thread adifferent direction. I might get more of the help I need.

I have a 98 expedition EB.

I have a sundown saz 1500

I have alpine mrv-430 It doesn't put out too much power though I thought it had more juice.

What I want is the best SQ vehicle I can get to play a large variety of music. Accurate enough for the pickies of jazz classical and acoustic music and vocals, but with enough authority to play rock hip hop and found sound. I would assume it's possible to get a nearly flat response all the way across the board, no matter the type of music.

I care very little about the high hz so long as the tweets image well and are accurate I don't care. I hate shrill sounds, period. I want amazing mid and mid bass. And really good bass and sub bass. I want to feel kick drums and bass when it's played and still maintain imaging and clearly hear voices, and have all of that have authority. I'm not quite as interested in having picalo sent to my face with authority. I can set up the EQ and slops and gain to adjust as nessicary but playing the mid through sub bass with authority requires very capable drivers. I want please.

What drivers would you suggest for my application? My budget for front stage, and subs and everything needed install is to keep it less than 2500.01USD, at the moment thats all I can put towards this project. Less would be great too But hat means wire materials everything etc...

[///M5 2,833]

Personally I'd spend nearly all of it on the front stage. To get the response you ask for, midbass will be your primary concern. A 3way active setup will be the best way to get it.

If three way is too complex, you could use a large midbass up front with a 3" driver on axis for the rest. Considering you aren't dying for highs this could be a very nice solution for you that is simpler than a full out 3 way setup. The problem with the 3 way is you will need to add some processing to the 880 to make it work, although putting the mid/tweet together so they can share time alignment could cure this issue.

How much of the $2500 is to go towards the install or is it just hardware

[dem beats 1,223]

Personally I'd spend nearly all of it on the front stage. To get the response you ask for, midbass will be your primary concern. A 3way active setup will be the best way to get it.

If three way is too complex, you could use a large midbass up front with a 3" driver on axis for the rest. Considering you aren't dying for highs this could be a very nice solution for you that is simpler than a full out 3 way setup. The problem with the 3 way is you will need to add some processing to the 880 to make it work, although putting the mid/tweet together so they can share time alignment could cure this issue.

How much of the $2500 is to go towards the install or is it just hardware

when you speak of this sharing alignment you are meaning??

just hardware. I plan to do it all myself. Unles of course you get board and want to help!

I'm sure your tool shop is better than mine.

[dem beats 1,223]

another point... I'm really not that interested building an very specific enclosure for the mid/mid bass. I think that would cause me a huge PITA. I am very sure that the mid and mid bass will have to go into the door.

[///M5 2,833]

If you go the three way route can you put the midbass in the door and the mid/tweeter in the kicks?

The 880 only has 3 t/a (time alignment) outputs. Sub, mid, tweet. So you could use the tweet outputs to cross the mid/tweet if they were mounted in the same baffle and have them share a time alignment setting. You would then have to have an amplifier with a crossover to bandpass, highpass the two drivers.

[dem beats 1,223]

I don't have so much room in the kicks

I have size 13's and wear boots... you know how MN can be!

It could be done with some work I'm sure, but I would like this truck to be usable too. Taking up the kicks would be tough and I would have to make th speaker placement very high from the floor of the truck. The doors open up so much room it could be hell.

Edited April 16, 2008 by dem beats

[audio-neon 34]

You could go with a large mid-bass tweeter combo, but than you would be getting into custom kick panels.

[dem beats 1,223]

You could go with a large mid-bass tweeter combo, but than you would be getting into custom kick panels.

doors can fit nearly anything if I build it. There is enough storage room for half a phone book in he door well as is. I have another 3-4 inches.. conservatively from where my leg naturaly rests

[///M5 2,833]

I have size 15's so I know how you feel. In a full size truck it could still be done though.

[dem beats 1,223]

I will measure. I'm fairly sure I can put almost all of it in the door though. If not Kicks maybe the only way....

How would you xover the tweet and mid? passive?

Also do you think the 880 will be good enough to process that kind of a difference? I would think it would have to xover really low for the midbass to split from the mid wouldn't it?

I'll try anything, it just sounds massively complex.

[///M5 2,833]

For the 3 way I'd propose.

880 LP & TA to sub wherever

880 BP (HP & LP) to midbass in door

880 HP to midrange/tweeter located together in the kick

Amplifier LP to midrange (880 does the HP amp does the LP leaving you with a BP )

Amplifier HP to tweeter

Conveniently in the same location and axis the tweeter & mid can share the TA settings from the 880.

If you truly want midbass and kicks to "whack" you this is your solution. Nearly any sub can fill in the rest.

[jonbearsmt 919]

now i remember why i stay away from three way active..... or anything that M5 talks about.... falkin over my head buddy.

[dem beats 1,223]

For the 3 way I'd propose.

880 LP & TA to sub wherever

880 BP (HP & LP) to midbass in door

880 HP to midrange/tweeter located together in the kick

Amplifier LP to midrange (880 does the HP amp does the LP leaving you with a BP )

Amplifier HP to tweeter

Conveniently in the same location and axis the tweeter & mid can share the TA settings from the 880.

If you truly want midbass and kicks to "whack" you this is your solution. Nearly any sub can fill in the rest.

that sounds good to me, but I am hazy on what you are saying let me try to figure it out.. LP means low pass, TA... no clue BP... no clue HP means high pass.

once I figure out what you mean do you have any driver suggestions?

[dem beats 1,223]

now i remember why i stay away from three way active..... or anything that M5 talks about.... falkin over my head buddy.

I agree. I'm swimming a bit but I think I can figure it out. I love to learn. I'll try what someone in the know would do, and if I don't like it or hate it..... well.. i learned my lesson.

[///M5 2,833]

I defined TA earlier in the thread. Time alignment.

BP is bandpass. HP is high pass, and LP is low pass. When you combine a high pass and low pass together you get a band pass.

ie if I crossover from 300hz to 5khz I am letting a band of frequencies through which means I have a bandpass. In this case the HP (meaning it passes the highs through) is 300hz and the LP (passes lower freq's through) is 5k.

Driver suggestions are still pre-mature. This is a fair amount to chew, you should perhaps really make sure you want to go this route.

As I stated the more simple option would be to just be rid of the tweeter and run a midbass & midrange combo. You will need a midrange that plays rather high, but that isn't that hard to find.

[dem beats 1,223]

OOOH lightbulb.... I will need another 2 channel amp?

[///M5 2,833]

Or two four channels, which would be my preference. Lots of juice on the midbasses would be teh sweetness.

[dem beats 1,223]

I am allll for that. it just cuts into the budget a bit more.

How much of a PITA do you think it will be to tune the midbass without having the direct 880 control?

The more I read the idea the better I am with it, it's just intimidating when talking about not being plug and play.