What has the greatest effect on.....

[SplFiend 0]

a subs ability to play lower frequencies loud and well? I'm talking about around 30-40 hz. Ive been told that the big factor is in fact not the box's tuning like I thought it was, so what exactly affects the subs performance at those frequencies?

[johnecon2001 82]

Box. The Woofers Fs is important too.

[shizzzon 461]

but what if we had 2 different subs with the same Fs and installed in the same box tuned to the same note?

I'm gonna say higher linear excursion also helps but i do not think going by excursion alone can make a final decision.

[JimJ 11]

FYI, 30-40Hz really isn't "low". 40Hz is actually on the upper end of what a sub should play

[audio-neon 34]

Fs, X-max (linear), power, enclosure, and cone area for the lower than "low" frequencies.

[johnecon2001 82]

but what if we had 2 different subs with the same Fs and installed in the same box tuned to the same note?

I'm gonna say higher linear excursion also helps but i do not think going by excursion alone can make a final decision.

Sorry, I still can't get over why you would have two different subwoofers in the same installation.

[mrray13 30]

but what if we had 2 different subs with the same Fs and installed in the same box tuned to the same note?

I'm gonna say higher linear excursion also helps but i do not think going by excursion alone can make a final decision.

Sorry, I still can't get over why you would have two different subwoofers in the same installation.

to further explain what might help a sub play lower. he's using the example of identical installs, different subs, only difference being one sub has a higher amount of linear excursion.

however, my response would be if the setups are the same, assuming even power, the excursion wouldn't come into play. not unless that sub was also a bit more efficient. in theory, the subs should move the same to reproduce the notes in identical setups, if the subs are the same except excursion.

but i'm just stabbing at the dark, lol.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[JimJ 11]

IMO, enclosure is king, bar none.

I'm sitting here listening to 6.5" drivers that have less than 2mm of Xmax, and a relatively high Fs, with less power than a nightlight and they're strong down to 30Hz or so. The enclosure is the only thing doing that, if I put them in an open baffle or a small sealed box the bottom end would completely disappear.

[///M5 2,833]

FYI, 30-40Hz really isn't "low". 40Hz is actually on the upper end of what a sub should play

X 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

And yes the other most dominant factor is the box. Install is everything!!

[dave_Edwards 1]

"there is no replacement for displacement"

[JimJ 11]

"there is no replacement for displacement"

There's no replacement for having big friends to help you lug large enclosures around

[SplFiend 0]

alright then, is it the tuning of the enclosure or the size that makes the bigger difference (ported)

[ANeonRider 3]

Both.

[tezin87 0]

i'm curious on this subject as well. what would be the difference in putting a 10 inch sub such as an icon or a bl in the smallest recommended size ported box versus the largest recommended size box?

[dave_Edwards 1]

larger enclosures require less power to get the speaker to it maximum limits......tuning effects the speaker also....port and tune to 45hz and play a 25hz tone and it will more than likely hurt the speaker.

to play low(20Hz-30Hz)---you need to be able to move alot of air(that is what I meant by no replacement for displacement)----and if the speaker is in a ported enclosure it needs to be tuned low----if you want to be loud on a meter tune high and play higher frequency bass notes-----if you want the FEEL of being louder tune low.....

[tezin87 0]

the reason i'm asking this is because i have around 1.8ft^3 of internal space to work with. I could fit two tens in somewhere around .75ft^ft3 each or one in 1.25ft^3. would going with .75ft^3 affect the subs ability to handle the lows, reduce output, or affect sound quality?

edit: forgot to add each scenario would be using a 3'' aeroport tuned to 32hz in a regular cab ranger.

Edited May 10, 2008 by KHARPS

[JimJ 11]

I'd go sealed, if low frequency output is really important to you.

[dave_Edwards 1]

I agree with Jim.....go with the largest sealed enclosure you can fit.

[tezin87 0]

thanks alot guys.....i learn something new everyday from this forum.

[shizzzon 461]

and to answer your curiosity anyways-

.75 could\can produce some lows but 1-1.25 would have done it a lot better.

Myself personally, i've personally owned some low tunes enclosures that were just crazy to me.

The last setup i had, i metered 144.3 at 31hz, that setup was the ungodly but lacked anything over 50hz.

Those types of installs started ruining my cars.

Tuning that low is\was fun and all but i have a new car now, an 07. I wouldnt want it to start going downhill just because of my choice of tuning.

I love lows, don't get me wrong but i just don't want to love them strictly anymore.

My next setup is going to be tuned to 38hz and i will be able to get down to the low 30s, not with force i'm assuming but audible to say the least. I'm after more of the 40hz area now so i can have the loud effect and still enjoy the music that I listen to that goes down to the low 30s without all that destruction that comes with it.

[JimJ 11]

You know, there's a volume knob for a reason

[shizzzon 461]

i didn't have that feature with my previous installs, it was just all or nuthin, hehe

I got some with my new install though.

I don't know how loud 4,900w really is so i got remote gain controls up front for all amps.

[jlw*22 0]

Bear with me this is my first post so.....Please be gentle. I have been designing enclosures for 11 years now. The question posted here is somewhat loose. What matters in the design of an enclosure is strictly based on the subs suspension and electro-magnetic capabilities. If you have a sub that has a tight suspension and low Fs, you typically do better sealed. How big the box becomes a factor when you decide you want a specific output curve. Low frequencies benefit from the larger and smaller beef your higher range. Most designers go for maximally flat for everyday listeners and this will give you true to the music sound. If your not sure you can always buy an enclosure program and play with the numbers. I prefer tuning vented enclosures down to the high 20's low 30's and using signal processing to help the higher end as you will find your driver is not required to work as hard in them ranges. Thats my two cents.

[shizzzon 461]

in the higher end, let's say 50 and up, tuning that low will cause the sub to heat up quicker in my experience.

When i've tuned in what exactly u say, high 20s low 30s, the resistance rise in the 30-45hz area is at least double it's DCR. Now, after 50hz, resistance rise starts to heavily drop(i know this is enclosure dependent but this happened in more than 1 enclosure as well) which increases power output from amp.

When the sub(s) tend to play these higher notes tuned that low, they don't move that much but are accepting a ton load of power, a lot more than what they were getting in the 30s and 40s for sure.

So less movement, more power, more heat buildup.

All it takes is for the user to start clippin his amp just showin off and there goes the thermal limits of the sub in a matter of minutes.. or maybe even seconds.

Now, when you say use signal processing to help the higher end? What exactly do you mean by help? Attenuating perhaps?

[dave_Edwards 1]

Bear with me this is my first post so.....Please be gentle. I have been designing enclosures for 11 years now. The question posted here is somewhat loose. What matters in the design of an enclosure is strictly based on the subs suspension and electro-magnetic capabilities. If you have a sub that has a tight suspension and low Fs, you typically do better sealed. How big the box becomes a factor when you decide you want a specific output curve. Low frequencies benefit from the larger and smaller beef your higher range. Most designers go for maximally flat for everyday listeners and this will give you true to the music sound. If your not sure you can always buy an enclosure program and play with the numbers. I prefer tuning vented enclosures down to the high 20's low 30's and using signal processing to help the higher end as you will find your driver is not required to work as hard in them ranges. Thats my two cents.

Good first post....Welcome to SSA!!