i think i wanna buy a hand gun

[brent338 0]

well If your talking a purley deffensive gun, then accuracy doesnt matter.... 7 feet average engagement.

and like I said before, reliablility can be solved with polishing the whole barrel... just pull your out and look at the machining marks left behind... dont think those will mess with reliability... your kidding me. polish the whole outside of the barrel( I said above how to), kinda like most match guns come... then see how many problems you have... i bet none.

wow....

I give up...

meat me at the range and we'll see whats up... k?

I'll just go back to banging steel @ 1,000 yds with my handloaded .338 Lapua...

I hand load for every gun I own... do you?

yeah I dont know anything about guns... Don't mind me.

[topgun 262]

I hand load for every gun I own... do you?

Do you own anything in .22lr?

[helotaxi 46]

Wow, reloading makes you an expert in guns and you have to handload to be a real shooter...ok, whatever.

A subcompact pocket pistol is a terrible primary defensive weapon. Period. Chamber it in a sub caliber and you're even worse off. I don't care how reliable it is. I don't care how accurate it is. It's still a little pop gun that's hard to draw, hard to aim, hard to hang on to and hugely ineffective even when you do hit. Sonds like the qualities I'm looking for in something I'm going to potentially trust my life to...

[mrray13 30]

well If your talking a purley deffensive gun, then accuracy doesnt matter.... 7 feet average engagement.

and like I said before, reliablility can be solved with polishing the whole barrel... just pull your out and look at the machining marks left behind... dont think those will mess with reliability... your kidding me. polish the whole outside of the barrel( I said above how to), kinda like most match guns come... then see how many problems you have... i bet none.

wow....

I give up...

meat me at the range and we'll see whats up... k?

I'll just go back to banging steel @ 1,000 yds with my handloaded .338 Lapua...

I hand load for every gun I own... do you?

yeah I dont know anything about guns... Don't mind me.

well, the p3at si a purely defensive weapon. kinda why it's so small, so compact and cheap. it's a backup to a primary gun.

polish the whole outside, to aide in reliability? so i guess the slide is just hanging up on all those machineing marks, correct? oh, and point out where you said how to in your previous post. and match grade barrels are more then just polished i'm afraid. but again, the OP is a gun newb, why recommend something that takes tweaking to make right? you think a gun that is fairly unreliable in untrained hands is always going to end up being carried by this same person? the frustration of many FTEs and FTFs won't make him want to stop shooting it? please explain how. and just how is he going to know the proper grip it to prevent those faliures? how is he even going to recgonize that it's his grip causing most of those failures? you can polish till the ramp and barrel are bright enough to shave in, still doesn't fix the grip and the failures caused by a bad one. and let's not talk about accuracy due to a bad grip.

i never said you didn't know anything about firearms, i said that your opinion on the keltec being a perfect choice for a primary carry gun for a newb is wrong. and it is.

and yes, i reload. so? not for everything, but then again, i'm not shooting for sub moa groups. but i'll gladly meet you at the range and we can bang plates all day. you might even be a better shot, i know for sure ryan2 is. but i'll still waste brass with him any day. you as well. this isn't personal. it's about bad advice, period.

oh, if you want to recommend a keltec, why not the pf9? single stack 9mm, would be great for a primary cc gun. or the p11? both are far better for a newb, have shown better reliability and offer more firepower for the same money. and i'll wager that by having larger grip frames, they'll be easier to shoot, not too mention more fun as there should be less failures.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[brent338 0]

well the P11 is damn good, and another great choice.... there are sooo many... which is why we are all here stating opinions... right?

Is the PF9 the new single stack.... that isnt even out in stores yet... with no reviews...? well Im sure its great and all but still new.... and yeah a step up from the P3AT, for grip and power ... sure.

trust me Im all about power... I have a 45, 10mm, 10 ga., .338 Lapua... the list goes on... specialty guns for sure.

but I would not want to get tagged by one of my keltek loads, a 90gr Golddot @ 1100 fps...

I havent had any problems with it, but the things soo damn light I can where it in my boxers and not even notice...

I guess thats why I like it so.

I couldnt do that with my 45 or 10mm.

and if you want to talk about internal wound ballistics, which i have gone over this thread now that I have been called out,...I have talked for hours with my military PJ buddy, and shoot many o' milk jugs and such...

I'd take two .380 holes over one .45 acp all day long.

ok so the .380 isnt the best primary... thats not what I said, its my best choice for summer carry, when its 90+ deg. and Im in shorts and chit.

I love talking guns... Or more to the point shooting with friends.

It is my one true passion in life, and respect everyones views... to each their own.

[helotaxi 46]

but I would not want to get tagged by one of my keltek loads, a 90gr Golddot @ 1100 fps...

The problem with using handloads for self defense is that they are a liability when you have to defend yourself in court, both criminal and civil. That's something that you have to consider when you carry; the possible repercussions of having to use the weapon.

and if you want to talk about internal wound ballistics, which i have gone over this thread now that I have been called out,...I have talked for hours with my military PJ buddy, and shoot many o' milk jugs and such...

I'd take two .380 holes over one .45 acp all day long.

One properly placed .45 hole is more than enough. You'd have to actually hit the vitals twice with a hard to control gun with your line of thinking. That's also assuming you could get it out of the holster in time to matter in the first place.

ok so the .380 isnt the best primary... thats not what I said, its my best choice for summer carry, when its 90+ deg. and Im in shorts and chit.

That's the place for a gun like you're talking about. Not as a normal everyday carry gun. If your dress dictates that or nothing, refer to the first rule of a gunfight: Bring a gun. The .380 is better than nothing in reasonably skilled hands, but would I choose it over a 9mm or .40 or .45 if those were options. Not on a cold day in hell.

[SEBASTO 1]

i say GUNS=NOT GOOD ...

[mrray13 30]

well the P11 is damn good, and another great choice.... there are sooo many... which is why we are all here stating opinions... right?

Is the PF9 the new single stack.... that isnt even out in stores yet... with no reviews...? well Im sure its great and all but still new.... and yeah a step up from the P3AT, for grip and power ... sure.

trust me Im all about power... I have a 45, 10mm, 10 ga., .338 Lapua... the list goes on... specialty guns for sure.

but I would not want to get tagged by one of my keltek loads, a 90gr Golddot @ 1100 fps...

I havent had any problems with it, but the things soo damn light I can where it in my boxers and not even notice...

I guess thats why I like it so.

I couldnt do that with my 45 or 10mm.

and if you want to talk about internal wound ballistics, which i have gone over this thread now that I have been called out,...I have talked for hours with my military PJ buddy, and shoot many o' milk jugs and such...

I'd take two .380 holes over one .45 acp all day long.

ok so the .380 isnt the best primary... thats not what I said, its my best choice for summer carry, when its 90+ deg. and Im in shorts and chit.

I love talking guns... Or more to the point shooting with friends.

It is my one true passion in life, and respect everyones views... to each their own.

teh pf9 has been out a bit, and i haven't seen a bad review. i'll look some up later. it's basicly a scaled down p11 from what i understand, and yeah, it's a single stack. again, IMO, a far better choice for someone just getting into shooting and carrying. the p3at is jsut too small, too hard to handle and not the right caliber for a primary gun.

i agree though, the p3at is great when dress requires (or state laws, lol) a smaller weapon. i've carried my p3at to work many times, had cops pull me over and talk to me, and walked into several stores and noone is any the wiser. it's a niche gun, but it doesn't belong in the hands of a beginner, not for carry.

sebasto..words like that will get you banned, lol.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[brent338 0]

The problem with using handloads for self defense is that they are a liability when you have to defend yourself in court, both criminal and civil. That's something that you have to consider when you carry; the possible repercussions of having to use the weapon.

well considering one of the few boxes of factory .380 loads that I did buy... had a 9mm round in it, I will trust my handloads over factory. thats one big plus in my favor at the stand. reloading is far more economical, and allows me to practice a lot with the same loads I carry, also a big plus.

its perfectly legal to deer/duck hunt with reloads... I see no difference.

a bullet, is a bullet, factory or handload. doesnt make it any more deadly.

i suppose the gov./anti's want you to use factory loads, so they can keep raking in the taxes that they raised on them... funny last research paper that I did on guns, the surplus ammo taxes ( some $45-55 million If I remember right) somehow disappeared... odd?

so much for the wetland/wildlife habitat reconstruction it was originally planned for.

[helotaxi 46]

i say GUNS=NOT GOOD ...

Let me ask you this, do you expect and rely on the EMTs and paramedics to be present everywhere all the time or do you learn CPR/first aid? Why would you expect the same of the cops? An armed citizen is to crime what a CPR trained citizen is to an injury. Do you have a fire extinguisher handy at your house so the fire fighters have one to use when they get there? Why should a defensive gun be any different? A gun is nothing more than a tool just like a first aid kit or a fire extinguisher. It has no consciousness. It does not make a good person go bad.

http://mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

You can choose to be a sheep. But as a sheep you are beyond foolish to defang the sheepdog because you'll never be able to do the same to the wolf.

But I guess in some ways you could be right if a lot of the sheep had their way. If guns were illegal, you could more easily spot the bad guys, they'd be the only ones with the guns. A criminal has already made the decision to break the law, do you think that guns being illegal will keep them from having them? It hasn't stopped the criminals in places like DC and NYC where guns are currently illegal. The only thing it has done it to give the crooks the piece of mind that they don't have to worry about an armed citizen standing up to them.

[mrray13 30]

i say GUNS=NOT GOOD ...

Let me ask you this, do you expect and rely on the EMTs and paramedics to be present everywhere all the time or do you learn CPR/first aid? Why would you expect the same of the cops? An armed citizen is to crime what a CPR trained citizen is to an injury. Do you have a fire extinguisher handy at your house so the fire fighters have one to use when they get there? Why should a defensive gun be any different? A gun is nothing more than a tool just like a first aid kit or a fire extinguisher. It has no consciousness. It does not make a good person go bad.

http://mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

You can choose to be a sheep. But as a sheep you are beyond foolish to defang the sheepdog because you'll never be able to do the same to the wolf.

But I guess in some ways you could be right if a lot of the sheep had their way. If guns were illegal, you could more easily spot the bad guys, they'd be the only ones with the guns. A criminal has already made the decision to break the law, do you think that guns being illegal will keep them from having them? It hasn't stopped the criminals in places like DC and NYC where guns are currently illegal. The only thing it has done it to give the crooks the piece of mind that they don't have to worry about an armed citizen standing up to them.

very well said, and quoted for truth.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[helotaxi 46]

So yesterday I was having a bad day...

My work network account was deleted while I was deployed, so I couldn't get the two things done that I needed to do before going on leave.

My truck that was supposed to be transferred from another dealer to my local dealer and arrive last week for delivery today wasn't here.

I went to the complete other side of Las Vegas from where I live to fill out the paperwork to buy my new gun (S&W M&P full size 9mm), get there and realize that I left my military ID (required because I still claim FL as my state of residence for tax and voting purposes and still have my FL driver's license) in my uniform back at my house.

At this point I'm pissed because the entire day has been a waste, so I resolve to salvage some part of the day and drive back to the house with the wife. On the way home we stop at a furniture store and find a sofa that both really like and buy it. Saved myself several days of furniture shopping there, things are looking up.

Get to the house, get my ID and drive back to the gun shop. I'm gonna get something done. So as I'm filling out the 12,000 forms for the M&P, I look down in the bottom of the display case and what should catch my eye? A Ruger SR9! That wasn't there earlier that day! Asked the guy behind the counter and he said that they had just arrived about 20 min earlier. No one had gotten any in since the recall earlier in the year. He asks me if I wanted it instead of the M&P and I did what any sane person would do, I bought both! I intended to buy both anyway eventually, so by buying both at the same time, I saved the background check fee.

Friday should be like Christmas! My truck should arrive (finally and the dealer owes me cause they screwed up!) and my 72 hr waiting period will be over and I can pick up both of my new guns.

[dem beats 1,223]

Good day Helo!

[Acidburn 10]

nice

[chad.SQ 0]

I don't want to hijack the thread. But what do you guys think of the Beretta Px4 Storm F .45ACP?

http://www.beretta.com/index.aspx?m=74&idc=2&ids=57

[mrray13 30]

awesome helo!!

chad, no bad reviews that i've seen on the beretta. no prior bad experience with any beretta either, but i'm not all that sure about new ones. if past track record is any indication, it's all good.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[chad.SQ 0]

awesome helo!!

chad, no bad reviews that i've seen on the beretta. no prior bad experience with any beretta either, but i'm not all that sure about new ones. if past track record is any indication, it's all good.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I buy by looks more than I should and I really like the looks of that gun. I know Beretta is a good company but yea. In less than a month I will be getting my license to own a pistol. That might be the one I will buy.

[helotaxi 46]

The guys at the gun shop I bought mine from highly recommended the Beretta.

[chad.SQ 0]

The guys at the gun shop I bought mine from highly recommended the Beretta.

Well thats good to know

I can't talk to any sales reps because being only 17 for a few more weeks they would kick me out as soon as I stepped in the store lol.

[topgun 262]

I've never had a problem with people asking my age in a gun store. For me anyway if you go in and ask intelligent questions, seem to know what you are doing and what not they have no problem with you. Hell, Cabela's has had no problem pulling match pistols (1,500$+) out of their show room cases and letting me dry fire them whenever they have them. Needless to say they normally comment that it looks like I've done that before when I'm done though...

[helotaxi 46]

How are you getting a handgun when you're only 18? Federal law is 21 last I knew.

[chad.SQ 0]

No. A CCW (Carry Concealed Weapon) is for 21. License to own is 18.

[topgun 262]

Own is 18, purchase is 21, carry is 21.

[chad.SQ 0]

Me personally I think that system is kinda distorted. You can own one but not purchase? I dunno. Eh I'll just have my bro buy it, then register it under my name

[95Honda 486]

You don't have to have a license or register a handgun. It is stupid to "register" any weapon under your name unless you are worried about the person it was previously "registered" to getting in trouble. If you buy a gun from a dealer, they are required to register the transaction, that is all. Your name, the gun you bought, nothing else. It isn't a license. If you can always try and buy your gun from a private party, legally. There are no transactions required for this. It isn't like CSI where everyone has a gun "licensed" to them... It is really a misconception... Some states may enforce stricter laws than this, but Federal law is you don't need a license to own any firearm unless it is class 2,3 etc....