Intrested in a pair of Fi BTL 18" but need some info

[KnowledgeStick 0]

Hello all, Name is Chelsea (Andrew is my significant other)

New here! We currently have a pair of RE Audio SX 18" subwoofers in a 10 cubic feet box after driver displacement, ported to around 35-40hz. They are powered by a Hifonics Brutus 2600 RMS Amplifier, it can only run at 1, 2 or 4 ohms.

We will be modifying our box so it is raised about 5-7 inches wich will increase it to around 16 cubic feet, and we will be changing the port to preferably 29-30 hz. The RE Audio SX's that we currently have are D4 voice coils and we run our amplifier at 1ohm splitting the RMS between subwoofer's getting around 1300 RMS per SX.

We can not do this with the Fi BTL's because they are D2 vioce coils, and not D4. So our current amplifier will not work unless we want to run it at 2ohms wich would only be 850 RMS per Fi BTL.

This brings me to the question of, do Fi BTLs come in D4 models? and if not what Amplifier or pair of amplifiers would be best for these subwoofer's to run around 2200 RMS into each one. We would much rather be able to use just one amplifier but if we have to use 2 amplifiers that is fine aswell, as we know these brand of subs are top notch and put out great SPL.

These are the final upgrades we will be buying in terms of our drivers. So i would like to know from you guys what amplifier could handle running 2 of these at around 2200 RMS each, and if no amplifier within reasonable cost could do this then which pair of amplifiers would be recommended?

Also i have a few questions about Fi BTL's compared to RE Audio SX's. How much more RMS can the Fi BTL's really handle for daily driving? How well are the soft parts built (the cone, cap, top part in general) How durable are these subwoofer's in general compared to our current RE Audio SX's?

Before i continue i would like to let you know that we have a kinetik HC 1800 upfront as are starter battery, all grounds and power wires have all been redone with 0 gauge and we have a Kinetik HC 2000 around 1foot away from our amplifier in the trunk in tandom with our battery up front, and we have a 140 HO amp alt and we are getting a 200 HO amp alt installed in tandom with our existing 140 amp alt once we get this new system in place.

Currently our SX's get a tiny bit warm when played for extended periods of time on the 1300 RMS we are feeding them and they hit around 130DB without seriously pushing them and we have no internal amplifier or upgraded internal speakers.

I guess i am asking how quickly or how easy is it for these BTL's to get hot or even warm when played hard? We listen to our music really loud and our car is a competition car, as well as a luxury to listen to when driving from here to there. So we want to know how big of an improvement would these subwoofer's be for SPL output and our aplication we will need to be using them for? The SX's are good subwoofer's but they seem a bit weak when pushed hard and this is what we like to do with our gear.

So how more rugged are these things and how much better would they be at handling the abuse of loud listening for extended periods of time with 2x the RMS that our SX's are currently recieving per sub?

To do a quick recap i just would like to know what amplifier or amplifiers you guys recomend for running a pair of these BTL 18" to their full potential. Thanks

CHOW

[bassahaulic 155]

For 2000 rms each, which isn't that much for them at all. I say the new SAZ-2000D amps would do great.

Or if you really wanna push them you could do a SAZ-3500D per sub.

[holley2346 6]

btl's can take a beating and stat fairly cool.

[KnowledgeStick 0]

to of the SAZ3500D would cost over 1600$ USD and we live in Canada, so that is a little bit out of the picture, they seem like awesome amplifiers for what we are looking for though. With one amplifier to each sub woofer would they be running at 1ohm each if we purchased Fi BTL D2's? With that in mind and with that said we are looking to spend no more than around 900$ tops CAN for a new amplifiers. Would our Hifonics Brutus 2600RMS amplifier be enough to power one of the sub woofers and would we be able to achieve a 1ohm load using the Hifonics amplifier to power 1 of the BTL's and then we could simply order another Hifonics Brutus the same model we currently have to run the other Fi BTL, as it was only around $790 bux after shipping and everything was all said and done. Do you think 2600RMS to each of these woofers would be adequite power and would pull some decent numbers in a DB competition? This seems a little smarter for us since we already own a Hifonics Brutus amp, but we need to knwo if it can run at a 12ohm load hooked up to tone of the Fi BTL's if we were to get D2's?

Just to make sure am i correct in assuming that if the hifonics amplifier will indeed work with this sub they will be able to handle the 2600 RMS for each sub that these amplifiers would be putting into them? this way we would not have to buy a new set of amplifiers and could simply just get one more of the same model that we already have.

PS. How picky are these things for space requirements, as the SX's we own are insainly picky and need to be pampered and almost need a house built around the things, dont get me wrong they are good woofers but for the amount of power they put out they are insanely picky and require a very large box.

our box right now for those who didnt see is around 10 cubic feet after driver displacement we have no spare tire adn the bottom of our trunk is a fiber glas tub that molds to every corner and curve, and the top is made of MDF and clips onto the bottom half. We will eb rebuilding the top half 7 inches higher all around the main area of the box increasing its cubic feet up to 16 before driver displacement. We willl be porting this new top with a much larger port for these BTL's adn tuning it to the low 30s or high 20s.

Oh and still i didnt get any feedback on SX's vs BTL's, if someody could perhaps draw soem comparisions between the 2 and point out the advantages the BTL woofers carry tatw oudl be great. Thanks alot.

CHOW

our current setup for our system :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZfgD1MjJNg

[KU40 173]

BTLs come in dual 1. That's what you'd want. you can wire the voice coils on each sub in series then parallel the two subs, bringing the overall load to 1 ohm, just like dual 4's would in all parallel.

[KnowledgeStick 0]

BTLs come in dual 1. That's what you'd want. you can wire the voice coils on each sub in series then parallel the two subs, bringing the overall load to 1 ohm, just like dual 4's would in all parallel.

So to run 1 amplifier to each BTL, we would want the D1 models ?

Also would the 2600 RMS be sufficient power per BTL ? sorry for the questions we are a bit green at car audio.

right now, my SX's are getting a little warm with 1300 RMS each on them and it is because i like to push my gear hard, and listen to our music all the time.

2600rms is less than the recommended 3800 rms you recommended or whatever that amplifier was, So i assume thease BTL's can handle ALOT of RMS, and ALOT of abuse compared to the woofers i am using now.

Anyways guys, please let me know if the D1 models are what we would want if we would be wiring 1 amp to each subwoofer individually.

And also if you think 2600 RMS per woofer would result in deciant sound levels ? If so, Then i will likely get another hifonics brutus 2600 RMS, and just run 1 amplifier to each subwoofer.

Total system RMS Would be around 5200 RMS, that would be extremely loud lol. Also how are thease things for enclosures ? the SX's require a house be basicly built around them for them to preform perfectly. In the specs, thease woofers require .5 less square feet per sub than the SX's yet they are bigger, more powerfull and handle more RMS.

I think i mistook the RE audio SX's for high-end competition subwoofers, when they are really just mid-grade SPL Woofers.

This jump to FI BTL's will be exactly what i need

So the final verdict so far is D1 FI BTL's running 1 hifonics brutus 2600 RMS each x2

how does that sound ?

Edited April 22, 2009 by Knowledge Stick

[NDMstang65 403]

That Hifonics amp will not do 2600w, with the grace of God, Allah, and even Buddha and a lightning strike that thing will not do 2600w .

You MIGHT get 2kw out of it on a good day when it is feeling froggy.

If you only have 1 of those amps you are honestly wasting your time with the BTL's. You would have to double up with another one of them or look into another much bigger amplifier all together.

You are also wasting your time putting them in a trunk install...you aren't going to get anything but trunk rattle and body panel flex. Ideally you would need a legitimate 4000 watt amp (if not more, Rockford t4000 etc.) and a half wall at least if not a full wall setup to accommodate the BTL's...

Just a heads up.

Thanks!

Nick

[NDMstang65 403]

Wait, I thought you said you only had 1 of the Hifonics amps?

Those amps do power at 1ohm, if you plan on getting a second one and running each sub with one then you need to choose dual 2ohm coils and wire them in parallel on each sub to each amp..

[KnowledgeStick 0]

Wait, I thought you said you only had 1 of the Hifonics amps?

Those amps do power at 1ohm, if you plan on getting a second one and running each sub with one then you need to choose dual 2ohm coils and wire them in parallel on each sub to each amp..

Yes we only have 1 of those amplifiers, sorry for any confusion. And to the poster above, we dont mind about the trunk rattle and flex, it is the 18''s kickin in the trunk like jackie chan that we like

We currently have 1 hifonics 2600rms, and we are looking for the easyest way to wire up our new BTL's when we get them.

If running 1 amplifier to each woofer, would be easyer and cheaper since i already have a hifonics 2600rms Amp i could just add another one, Instead of having to get a bran new monoblock that can power both of them, could i just add another Brutus 2600 RMS to the system and run 1 amplifier to each subwoofer, that was my basic question sorry for the confusion.

So d2 subwoofers running in parallel on each sub, to each amp, and each woofer would be taking the full 1ohm load from the brutus 2600 RMS, That it was connected too.

And i have heard mixed things about hifonics, some people say they are over-rated, but when i speak with RE audio on the regular, even they say hifonics are some of their best competition in terms of amplifiers.

Anyways, lets not turn this thread into a brand battle, We are looking to aquire thease woofers in a few weeks and want to take this seriously , and get the right ones to make wiring them up easyest.

Witch sounds like, the D2's and have 1 amp to each subwoofer. It would only cost me another 780 $ Canadian in total after everything for another Hifonics brutus 2600 RMS amplifier, instead of paying almost 800 USD on that sundown amplifier, even though that thing looks like it kicks ass.

I will likely switch over to the sundown amp's once i see how well the BTL's handle the hifonics amplifiers and deal with the power they are being fed. Please help me sort thease few issues out so i understand completely what model of BTL's i want to have made for myself, i want to make sure i get this right.

I think it would cost alot more money to find a single amplifier that could power them both adiquitely and run at 1ohm.

Not alot of amplifiers are .5ohm stable, atleast not ones within my budget i dont think. So i guess i am now asking, If we WHERE to go with 1 amplifier powering both woofers, what are some options for ampifiers that could run a pair of thease at 1ohm, and provide them over 2000 RMS of power, And what voice coil setup would the BTL's have to be ? thank you guys !

Thanks guys ! this community seems great, and everybody seems very helpfull so far i am glad i am apart of it

Also, We are not to concerned about having 18''s in our trunk, our car is extremely large, and our box after it gets re-done is over 12 cubic feet after ports & driver displacement, and it will have the optimum square inches of port. Thease things are deffinatly going to tear the car apart, But it doesnt really flex because it is a huge luxury sedan. Inside the vehicle is very painfull even with the Sx's we have now, The vehicle holds in sound very well and doesnt loose alot of it through flex like most peice of crap vehicles do that people put big woofers in.

Hehe, our rattling comes from the bottom of the car all the things underneathe the trunk rattle sometimes, and especially the license plate it goes nuts. Also the front windshield flex's quite a bit aswell as the roof once it gets up to high volume, but hell its fun it feels like you are inside optimus prime's leg while he is transforming

-chels

Edited April 22, 2009 by Knowledge Stick

[KU40 173]

I suggested dual 1 with the premise that you were getting a single amplifier for both subs together and wanted a 1 ohm final load. You asked if BTLs came in dual 4, which led me to believe that you needed a single 2 ohm load for each sub. The dual 1 ohm coils wired in series will also give a 2 ohm load per sub. So if you kept your single amplifier, get dual 1. Each sub would then receive approximately 1300 watts.

But if you're going to just add another hifonics 2600 watt, you should get dual 2 ohm coils so that you can wire each sub's coils in parallel for a 1 ohm load on each amp.

2,000 watts is plenty for a BTL. It may be able to handle 3,000, but it doesn't NEED that much. 1,300 watts will also move the sub decently.

[KnowledgeStick 0]

I suggested dual 1 with the premise that you were getting a single amplifier for both subs together and wanted a 1 ohm final load. You asked if BTLs came in dual 4, which led me to believe that you needed a single 2 ohm load for each sub. The dual 1 ohm coils wired in series will also give a 2 ohm load per sub. So if you kept your single amplifier, get dual 1. Each sub would then receive approximately 1300 watts.

But if you're going to just add another hifonics 2600 watt, you should get dual 2 ohm coils so that you can wire each sub's coils in parallel for a 1 ohm load on each amp.

2,000 watts is plenty for a BTL. It may be able to handle 3,000, but it doesn't NEED that much. 1,300 watts will also move the sub decently.

Thank you very much for this kind polite response and i am again, sorry for the confusion i hope it is all cleared up, because on your end you have cleared up all my questions.

I am going to get the Dual 2ohm woofers, So that i can add another hifonics 2600 RMS amplifier and run 1 amp per sub.

Does the BXI2006d (2600 RMS listed) Actually put out 2600 RMS ? i have actually heard that they will produce pretty close to that, if the electrical system is up to par to provide the propper current flow.

Please let me know what you guys think about this model of amplifier and if 2x of them powering 2x FI BTL 18''s would be a good competition setup.

Thanks guys ! this is the best car audio community i have ever joined

[KnowledgeStick 0]

Im not quite sure what you mean by wiring each sub to its individual amplifier in parallel, does this simply mean connect all the + to the + from the woofer to the amplifier and the same for the - to the - , and the repeat with the other amplifier to the sub? can anybody clear this up and explain it for me?

[Fuma1 0]

If you are confused on how to wire...

http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/learningc...ers_wiring.html

[KU40 173]

yeah, wiring the two voice coils on each sub in parallel. + to + then to the + on the amp, same for negative. That will lower a dual 2 ohm voice coil sub to a 1 ohm net load at the amp.

[KnowledgeStick 0]

yeah, wiring the two voice coils on each sub in parallel. + to + then to the + on the amp, same for negative. That will lower a dual 2 ohm voice coil sub to a 1 ohm net load at the amp.

great !

i have one more quesiton, are BTL's at all like thease woofers? http://www.audiopulse.com/products/subwoof...ivers/lms-ultra

i am looking into those because of the AMAZING space requirements and RMS handling ability, I just dont want to spend 1999 USD per subwoofer when i live in canada, that would be so expensive. But the fact that they can go in such small enclosures makes them ideal for my install because 2 of them in a nice big ported box would absolutely hammer. I cant get some of the rediculous size requirements for some of thease 18''s in my trunk, And i am wondering if the FI BTL's will still preform well inside a box that is around 11-12 cubic feet after porting/displacement.

My RE Audio SX's are extremely finicy and require monsterous amounts of space.

Thease audiopulse drivers seem to be fudgein amazing in terms of space requirements. So from any BTL owners out there, what are BTL's like enclosure wise, do they need massive amounts of cubic footage ? and also what is the best frequency you guys have found to port the box to for SPL/Db Purposes

Thanks guys !

check this little bit of info out from the audiopulse site: ( this is for the brand below the LMS ultra drivers ) the LMS seem to employ the same technoladgy and completely reduce enclosure size requirements.

"The all new Audiopulse AXIS is designed with high motor force, long excursion and very high power handling to provide loud deep bass in the mobile environment. Many drivers fall short these features and relying on large box volumes to make up for low frequency efficiency, but the AXIS doesn

[95Honda 486]

The BTLs are nothing like any of the Audiopulse drivers. They are both engineered twards different goals.

Since the T/S parameters are now listed on the FI site for the BTLs, you can compare box size, efficiency and response of all the drivers you have been mentioning by simply downloading/purchasing a modeling program. You'll find that you answer many of your own questions that way, and gain experience in the process.

[KnowledgeStick 0]

The BTLs are nothing like any of the Audiopulse drivers. They are both engineered twards different goals.

Since the T/S parameters are now listed on the FI site for the BTLs, you can compare box size, efficiency and response of all the drivers you have been mentioning by simply downloading/purchasing a modeling program. You'll find that you answer many of your own questions that way, and gain experience in the process.

thank you very much, i will try to use bassbox pro or get my BF to do it. would this program work ?

also still just looking for general feedback on how FI BTL subwoofers preform in differant sized enclosures, also what do you mean they arenothing like audiopulse drivers and they are engineered towrads differant goals do u mind elaborating ?

thanks man !

So basicly you are saying get the specs of the woofers, and enter the parameters in when modeling a box with drivers to see what type of cubic feet i end up with ?

That will help a bit, But i am still just a bit confused as to how LMS-ultra drivers can hammer out so much SPL And wattage with such small enclosure requirements and the RE audio SX's that i have cant, i hope the BTL's are in the middle someware. i KNOW That the LMS woofers can litterally flex entire cars so they are very powerfull and put out alot of SPL, and to be able to do that in a sealed box is insane !

i dont want to put my BTL's in a sealed box, i want to put them in the ported box i have already descirbed.So i am more or less just curious if they will sound good with around 4.5-6 cubic feet per sub after porting and displacement.

Thats why id like to hear from some people who own BTL 18''s and have them in differant sized enclosures so i can get some differing opinions.

It will help alot to know how thease preform in small/medium/large enclosures and if they are still efficent and able to slam in a less than optimum box. It is not like ours will be way off, but we cant get that like 14-15 cubic foot walled box an SUV can. Hopefully thease BTL's Preform better in smaller enclosures than my SX's, hell if audiopulse LMS-ultra drivers can do it im sure thease BTL's can handle being in a little bit of a small box.

I belive steve maede has 4 in his tahoe, that cant be more than 4-5 cubic feet per woofer, with the propper porting dimensions.

anyways take it easy guys and thanks again for your patience i already feel at home here

looking forward to more responses.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Knowledge Stick

[NDMstang65 403]

You are wasting your time modeling BTL's...

That box program will tell you to put them in a sealed box.

Go to the technical section here on our forum, read the BTL sticky and stay within those guidelines and you will be fine. Those recommendations work fine, they are what we have found is best for the speakers for a daily driving scenario. Regardless of what that box program says, do NOT follow it.

Ps..good luck getting ahold of an LMS, you must figure that you are paying over double what a BTL would be...why anybody would pay 2000 dollars for a speaker is beyond me.

[KnowledgeStick 0]

we have a potential opportunity to buy 2 near brand new D2 LMS Ultra 18" Driver's for 750$ a piece. The guy who is selling them is doing a new build and i guess a positive out of the economy is that he is selling these for extremely cheap. In your own personal unbiased opinion, how much better are LMS Ultra Drivers compared to Fi BTL's?

The most attractive thing to us about them is their ability to handle 5000 RMS with such small enclosure requirements, not to say we would put them in the smallest box possible but it would be easier for what we have because it would give us more flexibility and they would liekely sound better and be likely to preform better to their full potential, unlike most of these big SPL 18's that require insane amounts of enclosure space and porting to be able to do well.

I dont think BTL's are as bad as RE Audio SX's in this area as they require .5 less cubic feet per woofer of enclosure space. But obviously the LMS's are going to be the loudest and biggest woofers we could buy without having a gigantic box. Also we would have the option of upgrading our amplifiers to 2 sundown 3800 RMS amps

Thank you for the tip about the box tuner program, i will go check the technical thread to get the specifics on these BTL's to see if we could work with these because they would be brand new (nobody likes buying used stuff no matter how new it is) If we could fit 2 BTL's in our trunk nicely and get close to or over the optimum box specifications, but if we cant then we will probably go with the LMS drivers as they require a lot less box than the BTL's or our current RE Audio SX's.

[KnowledgeStick 0]

Please link me to the BTL sticky i cant seem to find it. Thanks!

[95Honda 486]

That will help a bit, But i am still just a bit confused as to how LMS-ultra drivers can hammer out so much SPL And wattage with such small enclosure requirements and the RE audio SX's that i have cant, i hope the BTL's are in the middle someware. i KNOW That the LMS woofers can litterally flex entire cars so they are very powerfull and put out alot of SPL, and to be able to do that in a sealed box is insane !

This paragraph makes me realize how much time I wasted in this thread.....

Nick-

I will never get your comments on the box modeling problem of BTLs. Every time I run the parameters of the old BTLs (as posted on Blade Ice) and the new ones, I always model a ported box similar to the ones reccomended on your site. No speaker program I know of will put a driver with a Q as low as the BTL in a sealed box without severe low end roll-off and the possible need for Eq... Every single driver can be described by its electromechanical charactoristics, I don't think the BTL is an exception. This was the last time I will ever comment on running the T/S parameters of a BTL on this site.

-Mike