No need for rears in a car

[deathcloud 6]

Ok this is a continuation of another thread that was being hijacked. So I thought I would create it here.

It has nothing to do with effing the back seat. People sitting in my rear seat regularly ask what I have for drivers in the back. When I tell them nothing, they always look shocked. Don't even bother connecting them to the deck, they will do nothing positive in your install.

What? No way...... they ask u what drivers u have in the rear and u dont have any? Man thats hard to believe... but maybe thats cuz I am not properly sound deadened? I think that would make a huge difference. People usually say "hey are your rear speakers working?" cuz all the sound is coming from my front components. And there is nothing in the rear doors. I just want the people in the rear to hear as good as us in the front and I thought that wasn't possible without having some rear fill. But I dunno... If what you say is true, then I would be happy to not have anything in the rear doors lol. Saves me money. Saves me time.

Edited January 6, 2010 by deathcloud

[Duran 387]

If all your speakers are on axis you can hear everything throughout the vehicle. I don't have a rear deck either.

[jcarter1885 995]

Im not disagreeing with anybody but I feel it is a personal preference, Im not shooting for an accurate soundstage or to be in any SQ competitions. I dont like concerts period, never have and never will especially sound wise (maybe Im backwards). Im more of a surround sound kinda guy, love it (that club effect where music is coming from everywhere or movies). To me if you want it then go for it since it is your car and your sound preferences. To see if you want it then do a simple test like I did.

Since I already had speaker holes cut out in my rear doors already, it was easy for me. I installed some speakers back there and did a test run with only the speakers up front playing and it did good and sounded good (did this while sitting in the backseat). Then I turned the rear speakers on to me it made sound difference, more to my liking. I could deal with just a front stage but dont want to.

99% of the people on here will tell you to just take all speakers out and only use the one in the front doors, to me that is there preference and its the right way. But hey sometimes you gotta do what you want to do since you will be the only one of this forum listening to it everyday, and if you like that sound of speakers in the rear door then go for it. If you dont like then just stick with your front stage and call it day. Just my .02

[deathcloud 6]

Im not disagreeing with anybody but I feel it is a personal preference, Im not shooting for an accurate soundstage or to be in any SQ competitions. I dont like concerts period, never have and never will especially sound wise (maybe Im backwards). Im more of a surround sound kinda guy, love it (that club effect where music is coming from everywhere or movies). To me if you want it then go for it since it is your car and your sound preferences. To see if you want it then do a simple test like I did.

Since I already had speaker holes cut out in my rear doors already, it was easy for me. I installed some speakers back there and did a test run with only the speakers up front playing and it did good and sounded good (did this while sitting in the backseat). Then I turned the rear speakers on to me it made sound difference, more to my liking. I could deal with just a front stage but dont want to.

99% of the people on here will tell you to just take all speakers out and only use the one in the front doors, to me that is there preference and its the right way. But hey sometimes you gotta do what you want to do since you will be the only one of this forum listening to it everyday, and if you like that sound of speakers in the rear door then go for it. If you dont like then just stick with your front stage and call it day. Just my .02

Yea I guess I see what you are saying. I really don't mind at all. I barely have people in the backseats anyways. Usually just have a passenger most of the time so the front stage perfected is all I am worried about. Thats why I can't wait to get my active setup started. It then might sound amazing.

[jcarter1885 995]

If all your speakers are on axis you can hear everything throughout the vehicle. I don't have a rear deck either.

I need to try this one day with my tweeters and put them on axis, this will get done during the spring or summer when I want to take on glassing.

[mbarber25 29]

If all your speakers are on axis you can hear everything throughout the vehicle. I don't have a rear deck either.

what do you mean when you say speakers on axis?

[jcarter1885 995]

If all your speakers are on axis you can hear everything throughout the vehicle. I don't have a rear deck either.

what do you mean when you say speakers on axis?

Like how the earth is on an axis; it means pointed, tilted or aimed in a direction.

Duran do you axis them towards the driver, towards the center of the car or drivers speakers toward passenger and vice versa. Thanks.

[filtor1 13]

My tweeters are on axis. My mids are not. Currently running Rainbow cal27 tweeters and AA Havoc Carbon mids. I have never had anyone say they had a hard time making out detail from the back seat. I have been toying with dropping in some SLC NG's in the rear doors. I liked having rears for "pulling" the stage back a bit. I have never been a fan of rear deck speakers though as they always seem to overpower the fronts for whatever reason. I have been running just fronts for roughly a year and have been very happy.

[jcarter1885 995]

My tweeters are on axis. My mids are not. Currently running Rainbow cal27 tweeters and AA Havoc Carbon mids. I have never had anyone say they had a hard time making out detail from the back seat. I have been toying with dropping in some SLC NG's in the rear doors. I liked having rears for "pulling" the stage back a bit. I have never been a fan of rear deck speakers though as they always seem to overpower the fronts for whatever reason. I have been running just fronts for roughly a year and have been very happy.

Your tweeters are on axis facing what direction?

[filtor1 13]

My tweeters are on axis. My mids are not. Currently running Rainbow cal27 tweeters and AA Havoc Carbon mids. I have never had anyone say they had a hard time making out detail from the back seat. I have been toying with dropping in some SLC NG's in the rear doors. I liked having rears for "pulling" the stage back a bit. I have never been a fan of rear deck speakers though as they always seem to overpower the fronts for whatever reason. I have been running just fronts for roughly a year and have been very happy.

Your tweeters are on axis facing what direction?

Each opposing tweeter is directed at the opposite listeners ears. I had them bot aimed at the driver and was not happy with the way it, even with time alignment, ended up sounding. I tried them in the a pillars and was not happy with that either. I may try a different configuration in the future, but have found this to suit my taste the best so far. IMO, achieving great imaging and sound stage is very difficult in an automotive environment. Finding what is pleasing to you without too many trade offs is a good place to be.

[jcarter1885 995]

So where are they located then. Yeah Im thinking of redoing some things in the car and more than likey Im going to try this method of facing them to opposite listeners ears. Its to cold right now, maybe Ill experiment with it next week.

[///M5 2,833]

If all your speakers are on axis you can hear everything throughout the vehicle. I don't have a rear deck either.

Mine are about as far off axis as you could get them....

It really comes down to more the whole package. If your sub is truly integrated well (ie non localizable) with your fronts then rears will just destroy everything you have going on.

The other problem with rears is the budget they soak up. 99.99% of the time that money would be WAY better spent on the fronts.

I will agree that if your fronts aren't setup right, you might miss the rears but that isn't because the rears truly help.

I also don't buy the "surround" sound thought. Nothing that you have for your car is recorded in surround sound so that is just not truly the case. Sound all around you, well again this is a staging problem. If your front stage is so thin and discombobulated that there is no coherence then of course it won't sound like you have any depth or anything in the rear. On the other hand, if it is well balanced and setup well you won't miss it one bit and neither will your rear passengers.

[filtor1 13]

They are currently in the sail panels. I know they are ugly, but this was my first attempt at glassing anything.

The pod for the mid is attached to the door and angled as far as I could. I wanted to see if it was an improvement and it blew me away. The next step is taking the door apart and building the door to accommodate both the huge motors on the Rainbow mids.

[jcarter1885 995]

Yeah Im back to the drawing board now, all the interior speakers are getting redone and going back to my original idea of ID Horns in the front, now it is time to search for a good midbass speaker. It is time to do it right and leave it alone. Thanks guys for your input and OP for making the topic to open my eyes.

[filtor1 13]

Yeah Im back to the drawing board now, all the interior speakers are getting redone and going back to my original idea of ID Horns in the front, now it is time to search for a good midbass speaker. It is time to do it right and leave it alone. Thanks guys for your input and OP for making the topic to open my eyes.

Done? What is this done word you speak of. I don't think that is even achievable?

[jcarter1885 995]

Yeah Im back to the drawing board now, all the interior speakers are getting redone and going back to my original idea of ID Horns in the front, now it is time to search for a good midbass speaker. It is time to do it right and leave it alone. Thanks guys for your input and OP for making the topic to open my eyes.

Done? What is this done word you speak of. I don't think that is even achievable?

Haha your right, every month on this forum I change all my ideas (just glad I finally got the substage out the way for awhile). I just contacted Bryan and thinking about a pair of AA mids from him, a pair of ID Horns from Image Dynamics and calling it a day. I have my tweeters where you have yours they are just not on an axis so that will be another thing to do until I get my horns. Thanks for the input.

[deathcloud 6]

Does this make sense?

CDTAUDIO Premium Car Audio Sound Systems

After reading this it sounds like your not supposed to put the tweeter in the a pillars. At all.

I am still confused of on axis and off axis.

///M5 you say you have it almost totally OFF axis. Does that mean the tweeter is pointed backwards? Does it mean it is pointing to the celing? Sorry I tried searching for what on and off axis means and what it could do for you and came up with useless threads.

It sounds like I would have to glass a kick pod into my door. or a kickpod down below and face the mid and tweet to the ceiling where the sunroof would be. I guess.....

[///M5 2,833]

OFF was an exaggeration. Mine are in the doors firing at the other door. Not super high in the door either as I used the stock Silverado mounting locations.

As a general note, consider on axis directly pointing at you and off axis 90 degrees from that as you'd never be listening to a speaker facing the opposite direction

Some tweeters have HUGE roll-offs at only 30deg, so planning for axis is completely necessary.

[ABXX49 20]

Does this make sense?

CDTAUDIO Premium Car Audio Sound Systems

After reading this it sounds like your not supposed to put the tweeter in the a pillars. At all.

I am still confused of on axis and off axis.

///M5 you say you have it almost totally OFF axis. Does that mean the tweeter is pointed backwards? Does it mean it is pointing to the celing? Sorry I tried searching for what on and off axis means and what it could do for you and came up with useless threads.

It sounds like I would have to glass a kick pod into my door. or a kickpod down below and face the mid and tweet to the ceiling where the sunroof would be. I guess.....

If your speaker was perfectly on axis, it would be directly in front of you. Think home audio set ups for this.

[deathcloud 6]

Ah ok now that makes sense. My tweeters are in my a pillars and they are pointing at me. As best as I could angle them. Maybe I should try different placement of the tweeters. But soon I am going to run an active set up anyways so for now it sounds good to me. But later on when I get my active setup going I will try to do maybe my own FG kick pod down low and point it to me. Hopefully the seas like on axis and also the MLI65s like on axis as well. Im excited to do some testing and hear the difference.

[///M5 2,833]

Pointing at you isn't always best. Pointing near you most likely will be though. Each driver takes some experimenting to figure out the best direction. I get amused when people want a rule of thumb or "best" setup as it is always vehicle AND tweeter/mid dependent.

I'll give you one rule though. Firing in front of you is better than behind you, above you better than below you, and L/R rarely should be pointing exactly the same way (inverted). Other than that, experimentation is your friend. After all it is for your ears anyway, so if you like it at that time it is right for you.

[hardballer7 0]

who cares what the ppl in the back hear? I design my system around my driver's seat because that's where I am sitting. If the back seat passengers aren't pleased, they can walk!

[///M5 2,833]

who cares what the ppl in the back hear? I design my system around my driver's seat because that's where I am sitting. If the back seat passengers aren't pleased, they can walk!

I feel the same way, but no matter where I go I am driving and we are taking my car. lol

[jcarter1885 995]

who cares what the ppl in the back hear? I design my system around my driver's seat because that's where I am sitting. If the back seat passengers aren't pleased, they can walk!

I feel the same way, but no matter where I go I am driving and we are taking my car. lol

Thats how I have always been no matter if we have enough cars going to the same destination I just have to drive.

[vial 0]

i drive a F150 2009 single cab and i just recently put in rear speakers LOL!!

well actualy i put in new infinity 6/8's in the door's and new alpine 6/9's in small boxes to sit on top of my sub box behind the seat.

i like havine a suround sound affect.

I just need to amp them now. As well as getting a bigger amp for my subs.