Fi versus Kicker (i know which is better :P)

[faaaaq 0]

Well it seems I've gotten the best answer anyone can really provide :/. So, just one final quick question. Would one Fi Q (any size) run off 1000watts rms be louder than the two CVRs? Or any other Fi woofers for that matter? Can be any woofer any size, but needs to be noticeably louder at 1000watts (in a custom built box, tuned at 32 maybe?)

i know you arent a newbie, but these are newbie questions. especially when you bring up kickers brand like that. and FYI i think that the BTL is Fis most efficient sub. so that will get the loudest off a 1000watts.

I don't understand why bringing up kicker is noobish, but ill ttry to avoid it in future threads

he was talking about you bringing up a "which sub is louder" question, not just about the brand

I know asking which is louder is noobish, but I was asking a technical question, being which is louder at 500 watts. I assumed that would be ok

[BanginGMC 23]

Kicker is OK.. If OK is okay then, well.. okay BUT Fi is good/great and will make a difference, but will it be worth the cash? - If his pockets are on swoll then do ittttt!

Fi isn't really too expensive. The box will cost more to have built the the Fi sub

Ha, i was talking about the whole process it'd take for the change. box sub etc etc

EDIT: Shit make the fuckin box haha it'll be cheaper that way, i just sold my 5 cubic ft 32hz box for 60 bucks to this dude, there is deals around.

Edited February 24, 2010 by BanginGMC

[faaaaq 0]

Kicker is OK.. If OK is okay then, well.. okay BUT Fi is good/great and will make a difference, but will it be worth the cash? - If his pockets are on swoll then do ittttt!

Fi isn't really too expensive. The box will cost more to have built the the Fi sub

Ha, i was talking about the whole process it'd take for the change. box sub etc etc

I guess I should've assumed that lol. I'm hoping for box under 300, whatever the sub costs, and whatever they charge to install the sub. I'm kind of hoping he gets a btl or a q, because his system is the best bass I get to hear on a daily basis. My car just has a Boss BASS1200 which claims 800watts rms lol xP..that is untill summer when I throw money at my Fiero till a BTL fits lol

[BanginGMC 23]

Kicker is OK.. If OK is okay then, well.. okay BUT Fi is good/great and will make a difference, but will it be worth the cash? - If his pockets are on swoll then do ittttt!

Fi isn't really too expensive. The box will cost more to have built the the Fi sub

Ha, i was talking about the whole process it'd take for the change. box sub etc etc

I guess I should've assumed that lol. I'm hoping for box under 300, whatever the sub costs, and whatever they charge to install the sub. I'm kind of hoping he gets a btl or a q, because his system is the best bass I get to hear on a daily basis. My car just has a Boss BASS1200 which claims 800watts rms lol xP..that is untill summer when I throw money at my Fiero till a BTL fits lol

*check my edit post above* and fuck.. ill build you the box for free if you got some trreeeeeee :drink40: :drink40:

but if you are in my area i will build you one. i didnt catch where yall live.

[faaaaq 0]

Kicker is OK.. If OK is okay then, well.. okay BUT Fi is good/great and will make a difference, but will it be worth the cash? - If his pockets are on swoll then do ittttt!

Fi isn't really too expensive. The box will cost more to have built the the Fi sub

Ha, i was talking about the whole process it'd take for the change. box sub etc etc

I guess I should've assumed that lol. I'm hoping for box under 300, whatever the sub costs, and whatever they charge to install the sub. I'm kind of hoping he gets a btl or a q, because his system is the best bass I get to hear on a daily basis. My car just has a Boss BASS1200 which claims 800watts rms lol xP..that is untill summer when I throw money at my Fiero till a BTL fits lol

*check my edit post above* and fuck.. ill build you the box for free if you got some trreeeeeee :drink40: :drink40:

but if you are in my area i will build you one. i didnt catch where yall live.

Wisconsin lol. I can design boxes, and if we had our tools I could have my dad build the box, but all our tools are even further north lol. If I had more cash id make a box to form-fit his car, because he goes fishing and whatnot a lot, so trunkspace is an issue, but not a major one. The kicker box takes up not too much space, but it makes a lot of space unusable, ie by the port, behind the box, over the box, etc.

Anyone happen to know how big a bandpass box for a BTL12 would need to be (this is totally offtopic and unrelated to this thread, I'm just wondering for future reference)?

[smashedz28 110]

Alright, ill throw my 2 cents in here. As far as your enclosure i dont know shit. As far as going from a pair of kickers to a Fi Sub.. just went thru this monday of this week... Vehicle had 2 12" Kicker CVR's in about 3.7 cubes i think it was tuned to about 38ish.. paired them with an audiopipe 1500 which i know is more than the recommended power.. @ 1 ohm it sounded damn good i have to say, it was that deep smooth bass, would drop the mirror real fast.. we took those out and built a box for a 12" Fi Q. 2.5ish cu ft, tuned to 32hz... personally i like the Fi better. it pushes more air and i feel it alot more, but the kickers sounded better up loud.. the Fi sounds like it wants more than the 1500 watts (which is off a stock electrical so who knows what its actually getting). but as far as my friends untrained ear he likes the kickers better. He notices the difference.. the Fi gives off that deep bass that travel's far.. really is no point to this post except to share my experience. take it for what its worth, i understand there is alot to consider in my friends situation and were workin with it more each week till we get where we want to be. But in my opinion, the kicker CVR's in a properly built box doesnt sound half bad, i would never buy another kicker sub again in my life.. but there not half bad to be honest. 1 Fi Q sounds better than the 2 kickers imo.

[faaaaq 0]

Thanks smashed. Everyone's experiences help, probably better than just saying what's better and whatnot. Ill see if I can find someone in my area with a Q for us to hear. So smashed (nobody else), in YOUR opinion, would one Q (15 or 18 inch) in a custom box being fed 1000watts be the way to go by replacing the two cvrs?

I agree kicker subs are nice, even the local RE dealer was praising Kicker, but id prefer better and my friend would like something louder and cleaner, so I thought a large single Q setup might work

[kjones 2]

Why not get the BL? The BL is louder than the q of the same power.

[faaaaq 0]

Why not get the BL? The BL is louder than the q of the same power.

Doesn't the Q have higher sound quality?

[slim2fattycake 85]

What do you think sound quality is?

[faaaaq 0]

What do you think sound quality is?

Should've figured... by sound quality, I mean is cleaner, responsive, whatever.. in a purely SQ setup, would you not choose the Q over the BL without even a second thought? Better yet, which would better reproduce the low frequencies in heavy metal and rock songs? That isn't our main objective...I just don't know how to word this...

(Having read the tos or whatever, wording things effectively is quite difficult...)

[Duran 387]

Because the word you want is loud, the installation is more important than driver choice. ALWAYS.

[faaaaq 0]

Because the word you want is loud, the installation is more important than driver choice. ALWAYS.

Loud is not the word I want.---edit: unless you are referring to the original discussion---

On metal songs, such as stuff by Dethklok, the kickers seem to get muddy with so many fast and varied low frequency notes... the Q would do better than the kickers at that, and I THINK better than the bl..right?

Edited February 24, 2010 by faaaaq

[Duran 387]

I would love to give you a demo of my Nightshades playing double bass metal songs, as they play them well. Like I said, it's all install.

[faaaaq 0]

I would love to give you a demo of my Nightshades playing double bass metal songs, as they play them well. Like I said, it's all install.

What exactly in the install would affect being able to handle double bass well? the kickers are in a proper enclosure in the trunk, tuned a little too high albeit, and are being fed the appropriate wattage. i know the install is very important, but i THINK the kickers are in a pretty good install yet sound almost muffled when it comes to metal and higher-paced rock. ill try to elaborate yet more lol..: In a proper install, being fed 1000watts, what would handle double bass better...a single Q/BL (in any size over 12 inches), or two Kicker CVRs?

---and please, i know what im doing wrong in this thread as far as my questions go, but if someone actually understands what im TRYING to say could you just humor me with the answer(s) im looking for lol? the TOS and acceptable etiquette of the SSA forums seems to be to weed out noobs and "gangstas" and whatnot, and i am obviously neither (not claiming to be a pro either tho). terminology has just never been my strongpoint, be it dealing with cars, working with hand/power tools, electronics (which i am pretty much a pro at), sports, car audio, math, etc. im at least somewhat skilled in each of those things and very skilled in a few, but i couldnt tell you what a monkey wrench is, or what a SATA port looks like, even tho i KNOW i use them both fairly often---

[Duran 387]

The CVR's are obviously not in the proper install if they cannot play double bass. Granted the driver can sometimes be the deciding factor ie: an SPL sub or a woofer designed for SQ, but CVR's aren't SPL woofers

[faaaaq 0]

The CVR's are obviously not in the proper install if they cannot play double bass. Granted the driver can sometimes be the deciding factor ie: an SPL sub or a woofer designed for SQ, but CVR's aren't SPL woofers

what do you think it would take to make it a "proper install"? ill describe everything that could possibly affect the subs in some way

AMP: 1000watts RMS, Valor VPA801, wired via RCA from the deck's 2v (i THINK) RCA ports

BOX: 4.5cubic feet, ported, tuned to 38hz

DECK: some Clarion model

WIRING: 8 gauge power and ground, no "big 3", no cap (i know 8 gauge isnt ideal, but i dont think it should affect ability to handle double bass. only got 8 because the wiring kit was far cheaper than anything else, especially thicker wiring. if need to upgrade we can just go to a hardware store or something and spool it off).

ALTERNATOR: stock 2005 Ford Taurus

POSITIONING: in trunk, pushed as deep back in the trunk as it will go, facing rear of car, slid as far right as possible to let the port breath (its on the left side)

DEADENING: None yet

this was a budget install, i know the components arent exactly top-notch

(i know not all of that is needed, but when dealing with computers, giving the ful system specs is always best, so i listed anything i thought might affect the subs)

if maybe it is because im not yet good enough at tuning the amp, knowing the details of the setup someone should be able to give me recommendations on what to put the LPF and subsonic filter at right? Im confident i have set the gain correctly, and BassBoost is at 0 (or whatever the Valor's minimum is).

[Duran 387]

It sounds like the enclosure. Not stating port area can mean two things. 1) You don't know, that's a problem as port area is very important in affecting how the driver will sound and handle playing different frequencies. 2) You think it's insignificant, which is also a problem for the reasons stated earlier.

Your subsonic filter should be 3-5 Hz. below tuning, that is where tuning that high kills you if you expect to play low notes. LPF varies on how capable your midbass or midrange is, generally between 60 and 80 Hz. Keep bass boost at minimum.

[faaaaq 0]

It sounds like the enclosure. Not stating port area can mean two things. 1) You don't know, that's a problem as port area is very important in affecting how the driver will sound and handle playing different frequencies. 2) You think it's insignificant, which is also a problem for the reasons stated earlier.

Your subsonic filter should be 3-5 Hz. below tuning, that is where tuning that high kills you if you expect to play low notes. LPF varies on how capable your midbass or midrange is, generally between 60 and 80 Hz. Keep bass boost at minimum.

im actually extremely pleased that you didnt just assume i do not realize port area is significant. the fact is i do not know it. They are currently in their stock Kicker box. My buddy is coming over tomorrow probably so i can take a measurement then if the information is still needed. as far as midrange goes, he just has four 2-way 5x7s, and they handle the midrange acceptably

[Duran 387]

It sounds like the enclosure. Not stating port area can mean two things. 1) You don't know, that's a problem as port area is very important in affecting how the driver will sound and handle playing different frequencies. 2) You think it's insignificant, which is also a problem for the reasons stated earlier.

Your subsonic filter should be 3-5 Hz. below tuning, that is where tuning that high kills you if you expect to play low notes. LPF varies on how capable your midbass or midrange is, generally between 60 and 80 Hz. Keep bass boost at minimum.

im actually extremely pleased that you didnt just assume i do not realize port area is significant. the fact is i do not know it. They are currently in their stock Kicker box. My buddy is coming over tomorrow probably so i can take a measurement then if the information is still needed. as far as midrange goes, he just has four 2-way 5x7s, and they handle the midrange acceptably

I try not to be an ass

Is it the Kicker enclosure with the aeroport on the right side? I can't recall the dimensions of the port so they would help

[faaaaq 0]

It sounds like the enclosure. Not stating port area can mean two things. 1) You don't know, that's a problem as port area is very important in affecting how the driver will sound and handle playing different frequencies. 2) You think it's insignificant, which is also a problem for the reasons stated earlier.

Your subsonic filter should be 3-5 Hz. below tuning, that is where tuning that high kills you if you expect to play low notes. LPF varies on how capable your midbass or midrange is, generally between 60 and 80 Hz. Keep bass boost at minimum.

im actually extremely pleased that you didnt just assume i do not realize port area is significant. the fact is i do not know it. They are currently in their stock Kicker box. My buddy is coming over tomorrow probably so i can take a measurement then if the information is still needed. as far as midrange goes, he just has four 2-way 5x7s, and they handle the midrange acceptably

I try not to be an ass

Is it the Kicker enclosure with the aeroport on the right side? I can't recall the dimensions of the port so they would help

Port is on the left side. The model is DCVR12-2. Its a prefab Kicker setup so I didn't expect the box to be perfect. Ill get the dimensions when he comes over tomorrow if he gets here before dark

[ralstonballa2413 20]

Your double bass sounds bad because of the install/box. I have been through quite a few sets of CVR's both sealed and ported and have liked how they sounded even on double bass notes. I think your box is tuned a little too high and would be better with a tuning closer to 34hz. As for your original question with switching from the CVR's to a Fi sub the last setup I had before my current 15" Fi Q was 4 sealed 12" CVR's. The CVR's definitely got loud but that wasn't what I was after as the Q is not meant to be in an SPL type of setup (the Q still has the ability to get loud but that doesn't mean that is what you're after). The Q will hit the low notes better than the CVR's and sound better. I know that you said you weren't looking for SPL but it seems like you want to sound better and as loud if not louder than the CVR's. This leads me to believe that you are not in the market for a Q and the BL or SSD would be the better options (the BL would probably be more what your after). These options will be sound quality wise as good as the CVR's IMO and if the box is made right and tuned to Fi specs then they will sound better. I think to save yourself some money the best thing would be to try a new box for the CVR's and if you still aren't happy then switch to a different sub but if you're set on a Fi sub then I would have to say the BL would be your best option, then the SSD, then the Q. The BTL is out of the question because of the limited upgrades done to the car.

[Duran 387]

The woofer doesn't determine electrical upgrades, the amplifier power consumption does.

[ralstonballa2413 20]

Absolutely true. Sorry I'm use to everyone wanting to run a BTL with as much power as possible. I was assuming that if someone was going with a BTL over the BL it was because they were going to run more power to it. Though it is very dumb of me to assume things.

[///M5 2,833]

I'd change your box and that boss amp before swapping out the Kickers. Somewhat non-amusingly Kicker gets a bad rap on forums since they are not an internet company and are mainstream. Some of their products really kick ass though, including for playing loud and not being "muddy" on double bass notes. I chose to use a Kicker L7 on my sister's boat for a variety of reasons. It is definitely loud and sounds really good, but it is in an ideal box and everything is setup right.

It really is 90% in the install. It is really easy to make a great woofer sound like crap, at the same time you can make a mediocre woofer sound decent as long as it is playing within its parameters.

As for your questions on the Q, you and your friend are not Q buyers. This is exactly why in the T&C we request you don't use the term SQ as your definition is FAR from reality. Sure it is subjective so it can be yours, but for the sake of making so we can all talk about it using the one that is closer to competition is much better. If you were truly into SQ you'd be worried about your fronts and wouldn't be that concerned with a sub, but when you chose one it would be to just play the last octave and BLEND well with the rest. BTW, in general that doesn't mean loud, in fact the opposite.

Build a box first, get some real power on those and then play some songs and let us know which ones don't play well and we can help you pick a better driver for the application. Until then you might just be changing one problem for another.