Help on new setup

[ShaiTan 0]

I'm trying to soak up as much information as I can for my next upgrade. But having difficult making a decision on my new sub setup. Too many different subs to choose from and then do I go ported or sealed. So far all I have ran is sealed Pioneer and Alpine amps/subs. But now I am looking to broaden my horizons and try something new. I took the first step and went with an MB Quart DSC1000.1 amp to power my Alpine SWR-1222D at 1Ohm in a sealed ~1.25ft­­³ enclosure (Scosche prefab. Best thing about it is the spring loaded terminal cup). Been thinking of either going 2 sealed 12's at approx 500w rms each or 1 ported 12 at 750 - 1500w rms.

So far I have looked at the following subs....

JVC Arsenal CS-AW7240 for a dual sealed ( Only because they would match the rest of my audio )

JVC Arsenal CS-AW7220 for ported ( Only because it would match the rest of my audio )

RE Audio SEX12D4 for a dual sealed

Re Audio SXX12D2 for ported

Sundown Audio SA-12D4 for dual sealed

Sundown Audio SA-12D2 for ported

DD 2500 D2

DD 3500 D2

Fi BL D2

SSA Icon 12D2

SSA Xcon 12D2 (little high for what I want to spend. But if I get the cash it would be an upgrade from the Icon)

I will most likely go with a ported enclosure, but my space is limited to 34"w x 15.5"h x 14.5"d and still be able to get it into the trunk and have room left over to use it.

I'm not looking to win or even to compete in any SPL or SQ competitions. But I like my music to sound good and be loud at the same time. What I mean by sound good is where the subs are not stumbling over the style of music I listen to. I listen to mainly hard rock / heavy metal styles of music. So dbl kick drum reproduction while maintaining the low bass guitar notes is a key to my listening enjoyment out of the sub(s).

Out of those subs listed or others I have not looked into yet. Which could possibly fit my criteria of music taste. If I have not listed some information that is needed, please let me know as I am pretty much stumbling my way through this research.

I have messed with Auto-CAD to develop a few ported boxes. But I'm not entirely sure how to figure proper port length and port tuning and still keep it to where the sub will not bottom out or over extend its self. As that is my biggest fear. Building a box that isn't proper and blowing my sub due to poor design. I am sure that even at the maximum dimensions I stated above that will not happen as it is a rather small box from what I have gathered by reading here and there and looking at other box designs.

Any help or incite will be greatly appreciated as I venture into this new journey of mine.

[ShaiTan 0]

Oh ya. forgot to add something.

I have not done the big 3 upgrade yet. But I plan on doing that soon. I have the 4ga wire to do it. Just have not had the time to do so. I also intend on using 1/0 from the battery to the trunk to tie in 2 Shuriken SK-BT20's. I would also like to upgrade main battery to a Kinetik or similar. If one will fit with a WeaponR air intake installed.

I was also wondering if putting 300hz bass blockers on my 6x9's and 600hz bass blockers on my 4x6's would help any? Or are they unnecessary?

[Duran 387]

The biggest issue when a driver cannot play the frequencies being amplified is the enclosure, of all the woofers you listed they will all play the same notes, just at different volumes but that depends on a lot of variables like the enclosure, amplification, vehicle, etc. they will all have slightly different "sounds" because of different T/S parameters, for the enclosure it's best to stick to the manufacturers recommendations. There are rules of thumb to stick with most of the time, or formulas to calculate the exact port area and port length you need for the woofer and enclosure you'll be using. A lot of people can assist you with the enclosure or even build it for you if you don't want to. I'd be happy to help you. Generally a woofer will mechanically fail when pushed beyond it's limits, or in an improper enclosure, or both.

Also, if you plan on buying a prefabricated enclosure only buy a sealed one, if you want a vented make sure it is built to the woofers specifications.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

All good suggestions above, but why not build a ported enclosure for your exisitng Alpine SWR - 1222D? That woofer will come alive when put in a properly designed ported enclosure.

[ShaiTan 0]

The biggest issue when a driver cannot play the frequencies being amplified is the enclosure, of all the woofers you listed they will all play the same notes, just at different volumes but that depends on a lot of variables like the enclosure, amplification, vehicle, etc. they will all have slightly different "sounds" because of different T/S parameters, for the enclosure it's best to stick to the manufacturers recommendations. There are rules of thumb to stick with most of the time, or formulas to calculate the exact port area and port length you need for the woofer and enclosure you'll be using. A lot of people can assist you with the enclosure or even build it for you if you don't want to. I'd be happy to help you. Generally a woofer will mechanically fail when pushed beyond it's limits, or in an improper enclosure, or both.

Also, if you plan on buying a prefabricated enclosure only buy a sealed one, if you want a vented make sure it is built to the woofers specifications.

I know that the enclosure makes or breaks a sub. As far as building it. I have the ability to do that just not sure on the designing of one. And I have read enough to stay away from prefab ported enclosures as they are not properly built for a specific sub. And if I go sealed, I will still build my own.

I know that 12 - 16 sq in of port area is recommended. And that one should keep the vent velocity below 17ms. Although I have also read that 23ms is the maximum vent velocity that one should have as well.

I have tried WinISD for a few of them. But for some reason it tells me that the parameters are incorrect even though I am using what the manufacturer published. Though it may be because I am running Window 7 x64 Ultimate. I have also tried a few boxes in BassBox Lite. But most of the time when I go with manufacturers specs on size the vent velocity is over what I have read as the maximum.

And since I have never had a ported enclosure I am kind of leery of moving into that direction. Although a lot of people out there prefer ported over sealed and vice versa as well. Another problem is that there are not that many bass systems where I live as I live in a small town in the middle of farm land. So I have no real reference available to me. I would like to try a ported enclosure, but don't want to waste the money on a dual 2ohm sub and ported enclosure and find out I don't like it or don't like the way it plays. Which is highly unlikely to happen as I love the bass. When I can go dual 4Ohm subs sealed wired down to 1Ohm.

If I priced correctly. It is basically the same price by going a higher end single D2 sub ported as dual lesser end D4 sealed on the subs I have listed above. With the exception of maybe SSA, Sundown Audio and the JVC subs.

It's kind of like taking a leap of faith to go ported. Since I have always done sealed setups.

So let me put it this way.

If I were to go ported. Which subs would you recommend. Keeping in mind the space I have to use.

If I were to go sealed. Which subs would you recommend. Keeping in mind the space I have to use.

All good suggestions above, but why not build a ported enclosure for your exisitng Alpine SWR - 1222D? That woofer will come alive when put in a properly designed ported enclosure.

I also thought of doing that as well. Only thing is about the alpine of mine is that it is roughly 5 years old. So how much life is still left in it. I have no clue. It could last for years to come or die before I get my system completed. That is why I was looking at new subs. I suppose I could build a ported enclosure for the Alpine while I figure out what sub(s) I want to replace it with.

I basically only have a half a clue as far as ported enclosures go. I may just have to break down and have some one design me a good proper box instead of designing one my self. Though I can still build it my self.

Edited May 1, 2010 by ShaiTan

[Duran 387]

The easiest way to decide which enclosure is best for you is to look at what you want, sealed enclosure will have a more flat response with low end extension below 25 Hz. and a ported enclosure will have more volume from 25 Hz and up, while still retaining the same sound quality in my opinion. While the 12-16 sq. in. of port area is a good rule to follow it can be wrong it's best to calculate the minimum port area for your woofer choice. I can assist you if you want. Choose the woofers that would be in an optimal enclosure, meaning you decide to get one woofer in a ported enclosure, but are limited by space and it's in the smallest recommended enclosure, dual sealed woofers in a larger sealed enclosure would probably be louder and outperform the ported setup. Woofer choice is actually simple, choose the woofers that fit your budget and will perform the best in the enclosure you can fit.

Sorry about the long replies my mind is everywhere today

[ShaiTan 0]

The easiest way to decide which enclosure is best for you is to look at what you want, sealed enclosure will have a more flat response with low end extension below 25 Hz. and a ported enclosure will have more volume from 25 Hz and up, while still retaining the same sound quality in my opinion. While the 12-16 sq. in. of port area is a good rule to follow it can be wrong it's best to calculate the minimum port area for your woofer choice. I can assist you if you want. Choose the woofers that would be in an optimal enclosure, meaning you decide to get one woofer in a ported enclosure, but are limited by space and it's in the smallest recommended enclosure, dual sealed woofers in a larger sealed enclosure would probably be louder and outperform the ported setup. Woofer choice is actually simple, choose the woofers that fit your budget and will perform the best in the enclosure you can fit.

Sorry about the long replies my mind is everywhere today

I found the SSA enclosure design page and found a few that fit my limited space. A couple of them are an inch or two larger in one dimension. But I think I can fudge them into place. The ones that can fit are as follows.....

12" DCON Optimal Ported Enclosure

12" DCON Small Ported Enclosure

12" ICON Small Ported Enclosure

12" XCON Small Ported Enclosure

I realize that these may not work for all subs that I mentioned and may be a general type design. But it gives you an Idea on space limitation. With that said and with an honest opinion. Will a ported enclosure of this size be comparable or better than dual chamber sealed? If not I will just go dual chamber sealed and be done with it till I get a car with a larger trunk space.

[Duran 387]

How do you plan to orient it in the trunk? I would do the enclosure that will allow the most airspace around then enclosure, it's really a toss up as I've never done and testing in a Cavalier to see which enclosures worked best, you could always buy a pair of woofers, build a dual sealed and a single vented and decide which you like best.

[ShaiTan 0]

How do you plan to orient it in the trunk? I would do the enclosure that will allow the most airspace around then enclosure, it's really a toss up as I've never done and testing in a Cavalier to see which enclosures worked best, you could always buy a pair of woofers, build a dual sealed and a single vented and decide which you like best.

It will be pushed up against the back of the trunk against the back seat with the sub and port firing back to the rear. There should be around 15" in front of the enclosure (give or take an inch or two).

I was thinking of a box like this......

This was modeled for an SSA XCON 12D2. Now if I figured this correctly. It will be tuned somewhere between 30Hz and 35Hz. I don't quite know for sure how to account for the angled corners and such. But It should be somewhere between 1.75ft³ and 1.85ft³ net around the sub. And a total of about 3.4ft³ gross.

I added 1.5" dowels to compensate for not having a double baffle on the front and allowing for an increased internal volume. Granted it's not much of an increase. This is along the same lines as the XCON small enclosure provided in the enclosure section. But this has a larger port, an inch taller and an inch narrower.

Edited May 2, 2010 by ShaiTan

[Duran 387]

That enclosure looks very good actually, I'd build it

[castimar 0]

How do you plan to orient it in the trunk? I would do the enclosure that will allow the most airspace around then enclosure, it's really a toss up as I've never done and testing in a Cavalier to see which enclosures worked best, you could always buy a pair of woofers, build a dual sealed and a single vented and decide which you like best.

It will be pushed up against the back of the trunk against the back seat with the sub and port firing back to the rear. There should be around 15" in front of the enclosure (give or take an inch or two).

I was thinking of a box like this......

This was modeled for an SSA XCON 12D2. Now if I figured this correctly. It will be tuned somewhere between 30Hz and 35Hz. I don't quite know for sure how to account for the angled corners and such. But It should be somewhere between 1.75ft³ and 1.85ft³ net around the sub. And a total of about 3.4ft³ gross.

I added 1.5" dowels to compensate for not having a double baffle on the front and allowing for an increased internal volume. Granted it's not much of an increase. This is along the same lines as the XCON small enclosure provided in the enclosure section. But this has a larger port, an inch taller and an inch narrower.

Were you get a box design like that Can u plz find me one for fi btl 15

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

That box looks nice.

Like the bracing.

[Duran 387]

How do you plan to orient it in the trunk? I would do the enclosure that will allow the most airspace around then enclosure, it's really a toss up as I've never done and testing in a Cavalier to see which enclosures worked best, you could always buy a pair of woofers, build a dual sealed and a single vented and decide which you like best.

It will be pushed up against the back of the trunk against the back seat with the sub and port firing back to the rear. There should be around 15" in front of the enclosure (give or take an inch or two).

I was thinking of a box like this......

This was modeled for an SSA XCON 12D2. Now if I figured this correctly. It will be tuned somewhere between 30Hz and 35Hz. I don't quite know for sure how to account for the angled corners and such. But It should be somewhere between 1.75ft³ and 1.85ft³ net around the sub. And a total of about 3.4ft³ gross.

I added 1.5" dowels to compensate for not having a double baffle on the front and allowing for an increased internal volume. Granted it's not much of an increase. This is along the same lines as the XCON small enclosure provided in the enclosure section. But this has a larger port, an inch taller and an inch narrower.

Were you get a box design like that Can u plz find me one for fi btl 15

Make your own thread and your question will be answered shortly

[ShaiTan 0]

That enclosure looks very good actually, I'd build it

That box looks nice.

Like the bracing.

Thanks guys. There isn't too much port area?

Were you get a box design like that Can u plz find me one for fi btl 15

I basically designed it my self. I had designed a box similar to this for an RE SXX. I just modified it a little to resemble the SSA XCON 12" small enclosure provided here.

This is what it would look like with the sub installed and wood laminate glued onto the viewable surfaces. Or I may do Black laminate instead. Have not made up my mind on that yet.

[Duran 387]

Port area is right on the money actually

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Very nice design!

[ShaiTan 0]

Very nice design!

Thanks.

Port area is right on the money actually

Ok sweet. Now I gotta decide whether to go SSA XCON 12D2 or ICON 12D2, or RE SXX 12D2, Fi BL12D2 or the DD3500e. I believe that this box will perform similar in each case at 1000w RMS. Correct me if I am wrong.

And in the mean time I will have to throw in the Alpine SWR-1222D in it to see how it sounds. After I build it that is.

I will probably go with the XCON since I will have room to upgrade the amp.

Edited May 2, 2010 by ShaiTan

[Duran 387]

I'd chose the XCON of BL if it were me, remember they are designed for two different things though. The BL is designed more for output where the XCON is designed for flat response.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

That box may work for the DD but I think you may be a little dissapointed in the output in that box. Tuning is below what DD recommends.

If it were me I would look at either the XCON or ICON. Both are SQ based drivers but have proven themselves to be loud, low and great sounding.

Duran's recommendation of the BL is also an option.

No experience with the RE driver.

[ShaiTan 0]

Ok guys. I am gonna start cutting wood tomorrow for a test box. I am gonna be using 3/4 plywood instead of MDF. I get all the scraps I want for free from work so it's perfect for testing purposes. I know that Plywood will sound different than MDF due to density and such. But is there any last minute recommendations that you can think of that I should do to make this box better?

I will be testing it with my Alpine SWR-1222D for now till I can scrape up enough money for the XCON, ICON or Fi BL. And yes I know that the new sub will sound different than the Alpine. But as I said it is only the test box to see how well it will perform. Who knows I may just stick with the Alpine if I like it.

[cheese20323 13]

MDF is what should be testing with yeah it is a little expensive but with that design you should not be disappointed

[ShaiTan 0]

Is this design really that good? And should I just leave it as it is then?

[ShaiTan 0]

I think I may of figured the tuning of the box wrong. I think it may be closer to 40 - 41. And would this still be ok? Or should I shrink the port to 3" (keeping the port length the same) and reduce the cross support dowel rods to 1" to get the tuning down to around 36.

Can someone please double check my tuning for me?

BTW. I will be using the SSA XCON 12D2 at 1000w rms (for now). As it will allow me to upgrade my amp in the future if I so desire to ( ).

I appreciate all the help you guys are giving me. And I hope to be able to learn enough to help someone else out in the future. But it all just takes time and patience.

Edited May 6, 2010 by ShaiTan

[Notorious97200 339]

Your box looks good. For a first try at designing box, I can only say : congratulations !

Save some money to build the box with 3/4" Mdf.

I did not understand why you did not want to use the "official" ssa designs ! You won't be disappointed, they are made to specs.

Even in the smallest size recomanded you will love these subs.

You have come to a good selection of subs.

The Icon is niiiiiiice , you will love it on 1000 watts rms.

But, since you're already talking of upgrades, the Xcon may be a better choice. On the same 1000 w it will pound even more than the Icon!

Good luck !

[ShaiTan 0]

Your box looks good. For a first try at designing box, I can only say : congratulations !

Save some money to build the box with 3/4" Mdf.

I did not understand why you did not want to use the "official" ssa designs ! You won't be disappointed, they are made to specs.

Even in the smallest size recomanded you will love these subs.

You have come to a good selection of subs.

The Icon is niiiiiiice , you will love it on 1000 watts rms.

But, since you're already talking of upgrades, the Xcon may be a better choice. On the same 1000 w it will pound even more than the Icon!

Good luck !

Thanks. This isn't really my first try. But it's the only one that I liked well enough to ask opinions on. The reason I did not go with the official design by SSA for the XCON is because even the small one is 1" too long (which mine very closely resembles). I built a 2x4 frame to see what my maximum dimension was going to be. 34" long is the longest it can be and still be able to get it in the trunk of the car. 14 1/2" deep is too deep to slide into my trunk from the actual trunk opening. So I have to remove the rear seats and slide it in through the passenger compartment end first. And then twist it around to face the sub to the rear. If it wasn't for the rear fender wells being so deep I could of went longer. And I only want to take up so much of the trunk space depth wise, that way I can still fit in my fishing equipment, groceries and things like that. So anything deeper than 14 1/2 would of taken up too much space per my liking. Otherwise I would of went with one of the official designs.

I try to always think ahead on my audio. I plan on adding a sub or two to the Blazer. And if I do that I will transfer the DSC1000.1 over to the blazer and get me a 2k RMS amp or something to power the XCON.

Any thoughts on the tuning of the box? Are my calculations even close?