which setup would have more ouput?

[wafsman 0]

so i have decided to go with fi subs and audique amps for my next setup. it will be going in a 99 grand prix gtp. budget is 1500 for the bass setup. it will be playing mostly hard rock and metal, with a little rap on the side. goals for this system are mostly output, i obviously don't want it to sound like complete crap, but the main goal is output. also this is my daily driver, no comps for me. so after a little background info on what i'm looking for, back to the root question... which setup would have more output?

option 1: 4 fi ssd 12's running on an audioque 3500

option 2: 2 fi btl 12's running on 2 audioque 2200

plan was to go ported to 33 hz on either option. option 1 would be with 1.8 cu ft per sub option 2 with 2.5 cu ft per sub.

[Duran 387]

I'd lean towards the SSD's.

It's impossible to know for sure though.

[bassahaulic 155]

Do you have the room for 4 12"s in a proper box, amp, and batteries?

[Fi Car Audio 64]

4 SSD 12s in the proper enclosure would be louder (given like tuned systems). You simply can not overcome the cone area advantage vs the slight power advantage on the BTLs. The efficiency of the BTLs really doesnt come into play much.

Thanks,

Scott

[wafsman 0]

thanks for your input. i was thinking the same, but i wanted to check with the experts first. and yeah, room won't be an issue as long as i stay on the smaller side of the recommended size for ported enclosure, giving 1.8 cu ft for each sub.

[SubSam 21]

two Q 15's! I love the linearity of the Q15, any 12 fails in comparison to the response of the Q15 in my opinion, tho 4 SSDs would be beastly

[///M5 2,833]

two Q 15's! I love the linearity of the Q15, any 12 fails in comparison to the response of the Q15 in my opinion, tho 4 SSDs would be beastly

Your opinion is based on a VERY small sampling. And no this isn't a knock on the Q, but when you say "any 12 fails in comparison" it shows you haven't heard all that many.

[SubSam 21]

two Q 15's! I love the linearity of the Q15, any 12 fails in comparison to the response of the Q15 in my opinion, tho 4 SSDs would be beastly

Your opinion is based on a VERY small sampling. And no this isn't a knock on the Q, but when you say "any 12 fails in comparison" it shows you haven't heard all that many.

It's not that extreme of a statement since I was comparing 12's to a 15, but I stand by it totally. Why would I have a small sampling? I install about 85% 12's all day at work (since '04 check us out @ soundcraftcarstereo.com) and had only 12's in my car for a decade, never outside a one or two woofer configuration; from jl w3s and w6's and kicker L7's (UGH) to rockford hx2s (personal fav still got a few of them 12's around). So I guess I should say any 12 in the same price range, including many above the Q15 that I have had experience with. No I can't say I've heard an AA Havoc 12 or a SI MAG 12 (tho I've heard the 15) or a few other drivers but I will totally still say I believe 100% the Q15 is the most musical sub for average to above average-sized enclosures. I like the SSD 12 just fine but its peakier to my ear, but my best buddy loves the SSDs I put in his car... we don't carry Fi in the shop, but I made it clear to my boss I gotta stick with Fi woofers.

[SubSam 21]

also I believe the Q15s do well in a small ported box, without being as suffocated as big dB woofers. If you have the room for a 17" baffle, I vote Q15 all the way, with the AQ3500 "running light" and that 2.5 cubic and 33 Hz tuning... Damn that's a match made in heaven. Save some dough on woofers and get the big amp and run it like its on vacation. The other setups may hit higher dB by a bit, and if output really is your goal then by all means, I mean 4 SSDs would look so sick and pound hard. I think two Q15s are impressively loud myself.

[SubSam 21]

Didn't mean to count out the BtL either, nobody can go wrong such a monster woofer. That's what they are: monstrous

[Dictator1992 6]

......If you can fit four 12's in the trunk of a grand prix be guest have fun thats all i got to say

>>>>>

[wafsman 0]

yeah i had 4 12's in my altima, it didn't go easy, but it did end up fitting. yeah know i've just been back and forth so many times on everything out there, too many choices i just want to try and spend my money in the right places the first time. after trying to price things up i may have to cut my budget back to 1000 for sub and sub amp to allow for some other needed upgrades.

[SubSam 21]

It always costs more than you think... you budget $100 for the box it'll cost you $350. Boost ur amp power and dish out some cash for new alts/batts. You can't avoid it, just keep yourself modest and don't overextend your build, it'll be more frustrating than fun. We all want four 18's and 25k watts, but i think its cooler to do big things with less cash and more ingenuity. Not saying be ghetto about everything, just do it right the first time. Don't chip away at until you need a new car lol

[///M5 2,833]

two Q 15's! I love the linearity of the Q15, any 12 fails in comparison to the response of the Q15 in my opinion, tho 4 SSDs would be beastly

Your opinion is based on a VERY small sampling. And no this isn't a knock on the Q, but when you say "any 12 fails in comparison" it shows you haven't heard all that many.

It's not that extreme of a statement since I was comparing 12's to a 15, but I stand by it totally. Why would I have a small sampling? I install about 85% 12's all day at work (since '04 check us out @ soundcraftcarstereo.com) and had only 12's in my car for a decade, never outside a one or two woofer configuration; from jl w3s and w6's and kicker L7's (UGH) to rockford hx2s (personal fav still got a few of them 12's around). So I guess I should say any 12 in the same price range, including many above the Q15 that I have had experience with. No I can't say I've heard an AA Havoc 12 or a SI MAG 12 (tho I've heard the 15) or a few other drivers but I will totally still say I believe 100% the Q15 is the most musical sub for average to above average-sized enclosures. I like the SSD 12 just fine but its peakier to my ear, but my best buddy loves the SSDs I put in his car... we don't carry Fi in the shop, but I made it clear to my boss I gotta stick with Fi woofers.

It is extreme you said ANY 12. I was just clarifying that is a ridiculous statement and again, not a knock on the Q's. Most people who respond like that have never heard anything else and then when a subjective end all that is statement like that is made it is absurd.

[wafsman 0]

yeah i think i'm going down a much better route now. i believe my money will be much better spent on running two Q15's on a sundown 2500. this i think will get me good output while still maintaining a decent musical quality, also it would open up for some play room on the other end of my budget allowing me to get an alternator and a battery instead of having to choose between them. and leaving me plenty of headroom for install materials and any unforseen install issues. thanks again for all your help guys.

[///M5 2,833]

The BTL's can be musical btw.

[Julian 641]

The BTL's can be musical btw.

Very musical for being high output woofers.

I can guarantee you will not be satisfied with the Q's output.. they are very good woofers but reading over what you've said the BL series would be more appropriate for your (vague) goals.

[wafsman 0]

i thought my goals were pretty clear, what else would you need to know to steer me in the best direction? i do like the btl's, i have been looking into getting the subs and amps used so i might be able to get some higher end stuff while still staying under my budget.

[BassThoughts 0]

......If you can fit four 12's in the trunk of a grand prix be guest have fun thats all i got to say

>>>>>

oh yeah he can fit em back there i own a 2000 grand prix GTP lol thers about 35" width 17" height and 36" depth in the trunk only problem is it would have to be 2 seperate boxes, or 1 built inside of the trunk or youd have to take off one of the back doors and take out the back seat to get the box in there lol then put the back seat back in also it has a 1 1/2 by 1 1/2 foot (estimate) fold down in the middle of the back seat that allows alot of air through but i wanted more and just removed the top half of the back seat lol

[ssh 924]

i thought my goals were pretty clear, what else would you need to know to steer me in the best direction? i do like the btl's, i have been looking into getting the subs and amps used so i might be able to get some higher end stuff while still staying under my budget.

I think your idea of all the drivers abilities to play music is a little off key. No pun intended

The Q is for the true audiophile. It's SQ orientated. Throw it in a sealed box for a super linear output response, have it crosssed fairly low and blended in with your midbass drivers, and the finishing piece, your tweeters mounted nicely on your A-pillars.

The above is just an example, sure you could do it with a btl and it'll sound good, and it'll play everything accurately. But is it accurate reproduction of the original sound material? Did the actual recording have that much absurd bass that your btl on 2kw is playing? Probably not.

The BTL is made to get loud, depending on which model, you could go for a loud daily vehicle or a spl one hit wonder competition setup.

If your goal is to play loud musical bass in a daily driver then the BTL N2 is the perfect choice.

[BassThoughts 0]

yeah i think i'm going down a much better route now. i believe my money will be much better spent on running two Q15's on a sundown 2500. this i think will get me good output while still maintaining a decent musical quality, also it would open up for some play room on the other end of my budget allowing me to get an alternator and a battery instead of having to choose between them. and leaving me plenty of headroom for install materials and any unforseen install issues. thanks again for all your help guys.

ive got the 2000 grand prix gtp since both of our cars are supercharged be careful about what alt and battery you get remember that our motor requires alot of cranking amps to run correctly (mine is the 3800 series 2 motor) you dont want your overdrive to cut in and out when you give it some gas as far as the subs id go with the 4 ssd's over the 15's the 12's will have alot more output and as far as response (15's dont have better response than 12's thats horse sh!t lol) trust me i know your car very well and know what different setups sound like in it ive had 1 12, 2 12's, 3 12's, 1 15, 2 15's and 2 fosgate 18's the bigger speakers have lower bass but most music is produced on a 80hz average anyway go with the 12's lol

[ssh 924]

yeah i think i'm going down a much better route now. i believe my money will be much better spent on running two Q15's on a sundown 2500. this i think will get me good output while still maintaining a decent musical quality, also it would open up for some play room on the other end of my budget allowing me to get an alternator and a battery instead of having to choose between them. and leaving me plenty of headroom for install materials and any unforseen install issues. thanks again for all your help guys.

ive got the 2000 grand prix gtp since both of our cars are supercharged be careful about what alt and battery you get remember that our motor requires alot of cranking amps to run correctly (mine is the 3800 series 2 motor) you dont want your overdrive to cut in and out when you give it some gas as far as the subs id go with the 4 ssd's over the 15's the 12's will have alot more output and as far as response (15's dont have better response than 12's thats horse sh!t lol) trust me i know your car very well and know what different setups sound like in it ive had 1 12, 2 12's, 3 12's, 1 15, 2 15's and 2 fosgate 18's the bigger speakers have lower bass but most music is produced on a 80hz average anyway go with the 12's lol

The average sub stage is going to be playing ~28hz to 70hz and upwards 80hz. Saying bigger speakers have lower bass is bullshit. The size of the cone does not effect the drivers ability to play one frequency verse another, it does however effect output / loudness of the material being played.

[BassThoughts 0]

yeah i think i'm going down a much better route now. i believe my money will be much better spent on running two Q15's on a sundown 2500. this i think will get me good output while still maintaining a decent musical quality, also it would open up for some play room on the other end of my budget allowing me to get an alternator and a battery instead of having to choose between them. and leaving me plenty of headroom for install materials and any unforseen install issues. thanks again for all your help guys.

ive got the 2000 grand prix gtp since both of our cars are supercharged be careful about what alt and battery you get remember that our motor requires alot of cranking amps to run correctly (mine is the 3800 series 2 motor) you dont want your overdrive to cut in and out when you give it some gas as far as the subs id go with the 4 ssd's over the 15's the 12's will have alot more output and as far as response (15's dont have better response than 12's thats horse sh!t lol) trust me i know your car very well and know what different setups sound like in it ive had 1 12, 2 12's, 3 12's, 1 15, 2 15's and 2 fosgate 18's the bigger speakers have lower bass but most music is produced on a 80hz average anyway go with the 12's lol

The average sub stage is going to be playing ~28hz to 70hz and upwards 80hz. Saying bigger speakers have lower bass is bullshit. The size of the cone does not effect the drivers ability to play one frequency verse another, it does however effect output / loudness of the material being played.

bigger speakers have lower bass because they can play the lower frequencies louder lol thats why for 15's you set your crossover to 50hz and 12's to 80hz and your wrong the average sub will not be playing 28hz to 70 hz that all depends on the sub, size, and enclosure

Edited November 29, 2010 by BassThoughts

[ssh 924]

yeah i think i'm going down a much better route now. i believe my money will be much better spent on running two Q15's on a sundown 2500. this i think will get me good output while still maintaining a decent musical quality, also it would open up for some play room on the other end of my budget allowing me to get an alternator and a battery instead of having to choose between them. and leaving me plenty of headroom for install materials and any unforseen install issues. thanks again for all your help guys.

ive got the 2000 grand prix gtp since both of our cars are supercharged be careful about what alt and battery you get remember that our motor requires alot of cranking amps to run correctly (mine is the 3800 series 2 motor) you dont want your overdrive to cut in and out when you give it some gas as far as the subs id go with the 4 ssd's over the 15's the 12's will have alot more output and as far as response (15's dont have better response than 12's thats horse sh!t lol) trust me i know your car very well and know what different setups sound like in it ive had 1 12, 2 12's, 3 12's, 1 15, 2 15's and 2 fosgate 18's the bigger speakers have lower bass but most music is produced on a 80hz average anyway go with the 12's lol

The average sub stage is going to be playing ~28hz to 70hz and upwards 80hz. Saying bigger speakers have lower bass is bullshit. The size of the cone does not effect the drivers ability to play one frequency verse another, it does however effect output / loudness of the material being played.

bigger speakers have lower bass because they can play the lower frequencies louder lol thats why for 15's you set your crossover to 50hz and 12's to 80hz and your wrong the average sub will not be playing 28hz to 70 hz that all depends on the sub, size, and enclosure

I said sub stage, referring to the driver and enclosure. I stated 28hz as some like to tune low although most tune around the low 30s. Crossing over is also preference based, some cross at 70ish and others go up to 80. Just depends on the person and the rest of their sound system.

Your statement about different size drivers playing different frequencies louder is completely wrong. I won't argue anymore with you as I'm just beating the shit out of a dead horse and it's not waking up.

[BassThoughts 0]

yeah i think i'm going down a much better route now. i believe my money will be much better spent on running two Q15's on a sundown 2500. this i think will get me good output while still maintaining a decent musical quality, also it would open up for some play room on the other end of my budget allowing me to get an alternator and a battery instead of having to choose between them. and leaving me plenty of headroom for install materials and any unforseen install issues. thanks again for all your help guys.

ive got the 2000 grand prix gtp since both of our cars are supercharged be careful about what alt and battery you get remember that our motor requires alot of cranking amps to run correctly (mine is the 3800 series 2 motor) you dont want your overdrive to cut in and out when you give it some gas as far as the subs id go with the 4 ssd's over the 15's the 12's will have alot more output and as far as response (15's dont have better response than 12's thats horse sh!t lol) trust me i know your car very well and know what different setups sound like in it ive had 1 12, 2 12's, 3 12's, 1 15, 2 15's and 2 fosgate 18's the bigger speakers have lower bass but most music is produced on a 80hz average anyway go with the 12's lol

The average sub stage is going to be playing ~28hz to 70hz and upwards 80hz. Saying bigger speakers have lower bass is bullshit. The size of the cone does not effect the drivers ability to play one frequency verse another, it does however effect output / loudness of the material being played.

bigger speakers have lower bass because they can play the lower frequencies louder lol thats why for 15's you set your crossover to 50hz and 12's to 80hz and your wrong the average sub will not be playing 28hz to 70 hz that all depends on the sub, size, and enclosure

lets put it this way which can play a lower note a tuba or a trumpet? lol a speaker in a ported box is very much the same. with a tuba or trumpet the vibrations from your lips combined with the air blown from your lungs through the instrument is then tuned by the instrument and projected from the horn making it more audible to the ear well a speaker creates vibration and moves air being amplified inside of the box and being directed out of the port tuning it making it more audible to the ear