Help/ Advice sub suddenly crapped out

[R3ap3R 1]

hey guys i need some help.

i have a FI BL 15 fully loaded for daily for over a year now, never been pushed to it limit, running on about 1200watts, never turned the gain on the amp past the 75% ish mark and never had the receiver on max volume. it seems that some of the coppering windeings around the coil may have slightly seperated. the copper coil itself looks like brand new still not scorched at all from what i can see. i get no audio at all of the woofer , its just completly dead... : ( i loved that woofer too

is there any reason y that would happen..?

are there maybe any cheep fixes because unfortunatly i dont have the money to get a replacement at the moment.

thanks

[pmureika 31]

You need to get a dmm and measure the ohms out off the speaker box with the sub unhooked.

[Impious 1,476]

Not turning the gain "past the 75% mark" and not turning the volume to max doesn't mean anything. If the voice coil is unwinding, then you overheated the coil and the glue failed.

What does your system consist of.....HU, amps, enclosure, etc? What are all of your system settings at (bass boost, gain, any settings in the HU, etc)? What is your typical listening material?

If you have a DMM, I would first measure each coil to verify there is a problem with the sub and it's not a problem elsewhere in the system. It's possible you might be seeing something wrong with the voice coil that isn't really there.

If the coil is truly unwinding, the only fix is to have the driver reconed. But again, one step at a time and verify that it's actually a problem with the coil.

[R3ap3R 1]

Not turning the gain "past the 75% mark" and not turning the volume to max doesn't mean anything. If the voice coil is unwinding, then you overheated the coil and the glue failed.

What does your system consist of.....HU, amps, enclosure, etc? What are all of your system settings at (bass boost, gain, any settings in the HU, etc)? What is your typical listening material?

If you have a DMM, I would first measure each coil to verify there is a problem with the sub and it's not a problem elsewhere in the system. It's possible you might be seeing something wrong with the voice coil that isn't really there.

If the coil is truly unwinding, the only fix is to have the driver reconed. But again, one step at a time and verify that it's actually a problem with the coil.

Not turning the gain "past the 75% mark" and not turning the volume to max doesn't mean anything. If the voice coil is unwinding, then you overheated the coil and the glue failed.

What does your system consist of.....HU, amps, enclosure, etc? What are all of your system settings at (bass boost, gain, any settings in the HU, etc)? What is your typical listening material?

If you have a DMM, I would first measure each coil to verify there is a problem with the sub and it's not a problem elsewhere in the system. It's possible you might be seeing something wrong with the voice coil that isn't really there.

If the coil is truly unwinding, the only fix is to have the driver reconed. But again, one step at a time and verify that it's actually a problem with the coil.

my system consists of:

H/u Alpine Cde-105

Amp: cheep Budget Power Acustik 3000db

Enclosure: homemade 3.5cubes tuned to 31ish

electrical. completly stock , one alt one batt

i put a Dmm to the each coil lead one was reading at 12k- 15k the other was reading infinite

[R3ap3R 1]

so would could be the reason that my coils gave out so i can fix this issue and i wont have this happen again when i recone.

also when it crapped out on me i was playing at low volume and my sub was bearly getting enough power to more the cone when it since it was midnight and i didnt want another ticket! lol..

[ChevyBoy95 15]

coil unwinding is from heat, you could have been clipping it.

[mathewdylang 2]

how did you get a 12-15k reading?are you on 20ohm setting on the DMM? if you are reading high and the other isnt reading you probably blew a voice coil. Make sure its unhooked from the amp... check directly at the sub.no wires.

[R3ap3R 1]

how did you get a 12-15k reading?are you on 20ohm setting on the DMM? if you are reading high and the other isnt reading you probably blew a voice coil. Make sure its unhooked from the amp... check directly at the sub.no wires.

The sub was pulled out the box no wire attached when i checked with a DMM, i just switched it to ohms it was going up and down quite a bit but mostly stayed at about 13.0 k on the meter.

i think it was my head unit that cliped it then , 30 outta 35 max volme is too much i guess ... well atleast i learned at about when my cd player clips. it cost me a recone but now i will adjust my system and probably wont go over 25 volume on the head unit....

[mathewdylang 2]

your h/u volume only clips if you have your gain set to high. As its been preached MANY times the gain isn't a volume control. There is only one place it should be set of lower. anything higher and you will clip the sub to no end. I can go to 57 out of 62 before I get distortion out of a pioneer and I've seen alpine run 33 out of 35 before distortion. Gain should always be matched to signal voltage not turned up and down as you please, and going by ear isn't always the best. As for amp bass boost... that will kill a sub faster than anything, especially if it is clipping with bass boost.

[R3ap3R 1]

your h/u volume only clips if you have your gain set to high. As its been preached MANY times the gain isn't a volume control. There is only one place it should be set of lower. anything higher and you will clip the sub to no end. I can go to 57 out of 62 before I get distortion out of a pioneer and I've seen alpine run 33 out of 35 before distortion. Gain should always be matched to signal voltage not turned up and down as you please, and going by ear isn't always the best. As for amp bass boost... that will kill a sub faster than anything, especially if it is clipping with bass boost.

i have bass boost on 0 and subwoofer lvl volume on the h/u is 0 along with bass and treble.

so what you are saying is i had my volume on the h/u too high for the gain i had set on the amp. dose that mean my amp clipped then and cooked the coil?

what would be the best way about going to get my h/u volume and amp gain in sync together?

[jesseadkins187 5]

same thing happen to one of my N2 18s the coil just came unwrapped.... someone getting little skimpy over there at fi with the glue?? lol

[Dangrebel 89]

If the sub was clipped at 1200 watts, wouldn't it only be about 30% more power at full clip? That is like 1600 watts which still below the rms? Just something to think about...

[mathewdylang 2]

yeah but even low power with a lot of distortion is bad on a sub. OP if your gain was set to high and you clipped it, then the amp was set to high. turning up your volume shouldnt result in your sub screwing up unless the the amp is set to high or has way high distortion.

[Dangrebel 89]

I've played an aq hdc3 on a fully clipped 1000rms at 30hz. Never got warm or smelled or anything. So what's the difference of a 2500rms sub taking 1200rms fully clipped? I would hope 1600 watts wouldn't burn a btl up

[Duran 387]

Clipping does not blow subwoofers. End of story.

[An-i-no 86]

Clipping does not blow subwoofers. End of story.

That's a half truth. Sorry. I could never agree with that no matter what. Clipping/Distortion (whatever you wanna call it) can cause an amplifier to make much more power than it would normally. That's like saying texting doesn't cause car wrecks. Your cell phone can't drive a car...but..you get it.

If A leads to B and B leads to C...then A had something to do with C. Will clipping always cause a speaker to blow? Absolutely not, but that doesn't mean that its something you can ignore. I'm not calling you out, but when you say something like that you should explain your reasoning otherwise people could take what you say literally and that wouldn't help them at all.

[CarlosRodriguez 4]

same thing happen to one of my N2 18s the coil just came unwrapped.... someone getting little skimpy over there at fi with the glue?? lol

then again i dont think he was putting a hell of alot of power to his sub lolol two dc 5ks

I've played an aq hdc3 on a fully clipped 1000rms at 30hz. Never got warm or smelled or anything. So what's the difference of a 2500rms sub taking 1200rms fully clipped? I would hope 1600 watts wouldn't burn a btl up

i think he said he had a bl but none the less im sure it should be able to take that amp np..

[An-i-no 86]

I've played an aq hdc3 on a fully clipped 1000rms at 30hz. Never got warm or smelled or anything. So what's the difference of a 2500rms sub taking 1200rms fully clipped? I would hope 1600 watts wouldn't burn a btl up

I remember reading somewhere where Nick (Of Fi Audio) explained that not only does clipping cause an increase in power but also limits the sub's ability to cool itself because of the movement of the sub mimics that of a square wave (it sits and collects heat, then slams in reverse and sits and collects heat) instead of a sine wave (where it would slow down at the peaks and valleys and always be moving).

Of course the speaker itself can't go from rest -> peak-> valley instantly so it does cool, but not as much as it would normally.

*take all of this information with a grain of salt as I am working from pure memory and don't fully understand all the concepts here. But I think I have a basic understand of what's going on.

[pmureika 31]

same thing happen to one of my N2 18s the coil just came unwrapped.... someone getting little skimpy over there at fi with the glue?? lol

then again i dont think he was putting a hell of alot of power to his sub lolol two dc 5ks

I've played an aq hdc3 on a fully clipped 1000rms at 30hz. Never got warm or smelled or anything. So what's the difference of a 2500rms sub taking 1200rms fully clipped? I would hope 1600 watts wouldn't burn a btl up

i think he said he had a bl but none the less im sure it should be able to take that amp np..

How hot the coil gets ruins subs.You can burn up a sub thats rated for 1500rms with 1000rms if the amp isn't set.

[Dangrebel 89]

I've played an aq hdc3 on a fully clipped 1000rms at 30hz. Never got warm or smelled or anything. So what's the difference of a 2500rms sub taking 1200rms fully clipped? I would hope 1600 watts wouldn't burn a btl up

I remember reading somewhere where Nick (Of Fi Audio) explained that not only does clipping cause an increase in power but also limits the sub's ability to cool itself because of the movement of the sub mimics that of a square wave (it sits and collects heat, then slams in reverse and sits and collects heat) instead of a sine wave (where it would slow down at the peaks and valleys and always be moving).

Of course the speaker itself can't go from rest -> peak-> valley instantly so it does cool, but not as much as it would normally.

*take all of this information with a grain of salt as I am working from pure memory and don't fully understand all the concepts here. But I think I have a basic understand of what's going on.

95honda did tests, I just gotta find the thread. There is lag in the suspension and it will not sit for aslong as you think. Doesn't just stop-start like a machine.

[An-i-no 86]

I've played an aq hdc3 on a fully clipped 1000rms at 30hz. Never got warm or smelled or anything. So what's the difference of a 2500rms sub taking 1200rms fully clipped? I would hope 1600 watts wouldn't burn a btl up

I remember reading somewhere where Nick (Of Fi Audio) explained that not only does clipping cause an increase in power but also limits the sub's ability to cool itself because of the movement of the sub mimics that of a square wave (it sits and collects heat, then slams in reverse and sits and collects heat) instead of a sine wave (where it would slow down at the peaks and valleys and always be moving).

Of course the speaker itself can't go from rest -> peak-> valley instantly so it does cool, but not as much as it would normally.

*take all of this information with a grain of salt as I am working from pure memory and don't fully understand all the concepts here. But I think I have a basic understand of what's going on.

95honda did tests, I just gotta find the thread. There is lag in the suspension and it will not sit for aslong as you think. Doesn't just stop-start like a machine.

I think we remember the same thread. There were also concerns with the drivers that he used because iirc they didn't rely on excursion for cooling as much as the high power subs we use. I understand the suspension lag issue also, I was just pointing out what Nick said.

[Dangrebel 89]

I've played an aq hdc3 on a fully clipped 1000rms at 30hz. Never got warm or smelled or anything. So what's the difference of a 2500rms sub taking 1200rms fully clipped? I would hope 1600 watts wouldn't burn a btl up

I remember reading somewhere where Nick (Of Fi Audio) explained that not only does clipping cause an increase in power but also limits the sub's ability to cool itself because of the movement of the sub mimics that of a square wave (it sits and collects heat, then slams in reverse and sits and collects heat) instead of a sine wave (where it would slow down at the peaks and valleys and always be moving).

Of course the speaker itself can't go from rest -> peak-> valley instantly so it does cool, but not as much as it would normally.

*take all of this information with a grain of salt as I am working from pure memory and don't fully understand all the concepts here. But I think I have a basic understand of what's going on.

95honda did tests, I just gotta find the thread. There is lag in the suspension and it will not sit for aslong as you think. Doesn't just stop-start like a machine.

I think we remember the same thread. There were also concerns with the drivers that he used because iirc they didn't rely on excursion for cooling as much as the high power subs we use. I understand the suspension lag issue also, I was just pointing out what Nick said.

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk. Sorry if it came off that way. I remember that issue with the drivers he used now. I couldn't remember every thing that was said lol

[AllenH427 10]

Another thread arguing whether clipping hurts or not. From my experience, I can burp all day unclipped and not smell the coils. As soon as a do a clipped burp or two, I can smell the coils. Clipping does induce heat. Duran, burp a square wave.

[Impious 1,476]

I've played an aq hdc3 on a fully clipped 1000rms at 30hz. Never got warm or smelled or anything. So what's the difference of a 2500rms sub taking 1200rms fully clipped? I would hope 1600 watts wouldn't burn a btl up

I remember reading somewhere where Nick (Of Fi Audio) explained that not only does clipping cause an increase in power but also limits the sub's ability to cool itself because of the movement of the sub mimics that of a square wave (it sits and collects heat, then slams in reverse and sits and collects heat) instead of a sine wave (where it would slow down at the peaks and valleys and always be moving).

Of course the speaker itself can't go from rest -> peak-> valley instantly so it does cool, but not as much as it would normally.

*take all of this information with a grain of salt as I am working from pure memory and don't fully understand all the concepts here. But I think I have a basic understand of what's going on.

With the high inductance of most subwoofers I would doubt the "travel" of the subwoofer itself varies much with a fully clipped signal compared to a pure sine wave.

Clipping increases average power over time. Average power over time is what damages drivers if that average power over time exceeds the driver's thermal or mechanical limits. Clipping didn't damage the driver, the increased average power over time did. Yes, the average power over time increased because of clipping, but the clipping isn't what did the damage. Clipping below the threshold of the drivers thermal or mechanical limits won't do any damage. I.E. comments like above; "even low power with a lot of distortion is bad on a sub" are nonsense.

I don't know why the topic of clipping is always made to be more complicated than it is.

[An-i-no 86]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk. Sorry if it came off that way. I remember that issue with the drivers he used now. I couldn't remember every thing that was said lol

Haha its cool. I just don't like people telling half the story, especially when it doesn't help in any way.

Another thread arguing whether clipping hurts or not. From my experience, I can burp all day unclipped and not smell the coils. As soon as a do a clipped burp or two, I can smell the coils. Clipping does induce heat. Duran, burp a square wave.

I don't mean to start more trouble but all they'll tell you is that your experiences don't matter because you don't understand them. I always thought that was funny. But I'm just as tired of arguing as I am seeing "clipping does nothing." All I was trying to do is give the guy both sides of the story so he could make an educated decision based on his experiences just like you and I can. Y'know, give him the info and let him go from there on his own.

EDIT

I don't know why the topic of clipping is always made to be more complicated than it is.

I agree, but see what I posted above. When you say "clipping does not blow subwoofers" and nothing else...it implies something totally different from what you're explaining. If he had said "clipping only increases average power, it doesn't blow subwoofers" I would not have replied at all. I agree that there's lots of misconceptions floating around in this thread but I was just trying to put the info out there.

Edited March 30, 2012 by An-i-no