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Now thats a statement I couldnt agree with any more even if I tried!!!! J

Obviously the X-con wont be as loud as the BTLs but if your looking for some some seriously amazing authority, sq and low end like no other they my be a good option for you. If your looking for more SPL its gonna be hard there isnt much better than BTLs in my opinion. Wardens would cut the cake but at that price tag its hard for anyone. DC lvl5s are seriously nasty as well. Real question would be are you wanting more SQ or SPL than what you have?

okay, thanks bro, you know i will.

In most cases, go active from the head unit. My PRS880 did very well active, and I preferred having the controls on the head unit, then having them on a secondary unit or amp. Part of the confusion here is you want a sound quality system and what big time output. What many of the experienced members and/or industry people here will tell you is having a balanced system is the direction to head towards for a goal of sound quality. What you are after sounds like you want something loud that does not sound bad, but not technically a sound quality system. I know a few people did not understand on one of my prior installs, where I was running a 2-way active and single sub install, and I had more power going to my mids and highs then my sub. What confused people even more was that the output was much more then expected. Part of the issue about rear-fill, is that if you are using such a big amp, and want to use higher output drivers, is that during normal play, 9 times out of 10, it will be just you in the car listening to your music. So think about it for a moment, when you see live music, the sound comes from in front of you, not behind you. And this is your money, your system, it is not meant to entertain rear seat passengers. At least that is how I see it, along with a few other people on here. Anyway, you mention about saving some cash. I suggest running a quality 2-way active front stage with the crossover points and slopes set on the head unit, being powered by a quality 4-channel amplifier. Then have your AX amp, and sub(s). As for subs, yes I am a little biased, but I will refrain from speaking on eD and RD, as there are plenty of people who know better. The prior generation RE XXX were a very good driver, they still fetch big time money used. I look forward to test the newer model. As for the CM driver, it make be quite capable, but I have not seen someone justify the pricing of them. So that should explain my lean towards the Xcon, but I am biased, and for good reason. Anyway, let's address you entire set up and not just the sub woofer. This is the difference between the SSA forum and all the other pretender forums.

I guess what I am going for is more of a subjective sq/spl system, tweaked more to the low end, not necessarily a flat response. Sorry, everyone describes it differently. I was too vague and I do not know exactly how to voice it without adding SPL to the description. Also I have a Pioneer DEH-p800prs and might purchase my friend's Audiocontrol dqs if that would be a good decision. I am installing a few of the second skin products in the next couple of weeks too, starting with the damplifier this weekend. As for the front stage, will the three way eclipses not cut it even with the processing I will have? I was hoping to eventually save up for some Focal K2s or Morel Supremos (They both sounded great too me, leaning more towards the supremos). I also have the eclipses for the rear or would you suggest something different, like a simple rear fill, as opposed to the three ways? The 800 will not do a 3 way front stage actively. Your other choices are also passive components which make no sense to buy and then run active. Way better bang for the buck available. Rears are pointless in a vehicle IMO as well. Lastly, I wouldn't bother with the 2nd skin instead shop at SDS. There is a link in my sig. Instead of giving you bad advice based on marketing propaganda, Don will actually help you only buy what you need. If you want further help, don't hesitate to make a thread as there are many of us who would be glad to pipe in on the deadening side of things.

I can think a few reasons: 1. Wanting to "get all you can out of your amp" , even if you don't actually use it, if you wanted to crank it that far you could (mechanical limits not being a factor) 2. People who think the speaker "sees" 3000W when it's hooked up to an amp that produces 3000W at Xohms. I've seen this a lot. I have even heard stories of car audio reps thinking this. They think an amp will always put out its rated power even with no signal. So of course you need a sub rated for that power. I wonder how these people explain gain... 3. Similar to above, thinking that the power rating on a sub or combination of subs must match your amp rating. With class d amps the last thing you want to do is drive them into clipping. You want head room. When a class d clips it creates a lot of high order odd harmonics (bad sounding harmonic distortion, as opposed to the "nice" sounding low even order harmonics tube amps are known for). An amp that produces a really clean signal unclipped suddenly creates lots and lots of distortion. Luckily this won't wreck a sub (as long as thermal and mechanical handling isn't exceeded.. which is possible as clipping increases the amount of power..), but it definitely is good for the SQ. Another thing I rarely see take into consideration is speaker efficiency. How loud you can go is a combination of power handling and efficiency. Who cares if you sub can handle 2000W if the sensitivity is rated at 80db.. gimme a 87db sub that can handle 1000W and everything else being equal I'll get louder with less power, less wire, less alt, less batt etc.

I guess what I am going for is more of a subjective sq/spl system, tweaked more to the low end, not necessarily a flat response. Sorry, everyone describes it differently. I was too vague and I do not know exactly how to voice it without adding SPL to the description. Also I have a Pioneer DEH-p800prs and might purchase my friend's Audiocontrol dqs if that would be a good decision. I am installing a few of the second skin products in the next couple of weeks too, starting with the damplifier this weekend. As for the front stage, will the three way eclipses not cut it even with the processing I will have? I was hoping to eventually save up for some Focal K2s or Morel Supremos (They both sounded great too me, leaning more towards the supremos). I also have the eclipses for the rear or would you suggest something different, like a simple rear fill, as opposed to the three ways? Your 800PRS will have all the processing you will need with the advantage of being able to go active with all the control at your fingertips. Kill the rear fill idea! Not needed and it will just degrade from your front stage.

If your looking at running that much power why not look into the SPL line from Mach 5? Yeah, it seems like the goal is volume, so a little loss in extension for volume and power handling seems like a good tradeoff. Going by thermal power handling throws up red flags to me.. depending on the box alignment you are most likely gonna hit mech limits before you hit thermal (with music at least). You can model that if you have an idea what way you are going with the box (size and tuning).... If you plan on tuning high and burping with tones or something similar (i.e. definitely running into thermal limits before mech) then an SPL oriented sub makes more sense imho. If you are going for SQ, get the ixl and don't go crazy with the gains. Headroom is a good thing (the amp will be operating at low distortion and not heating up if you aren't pushing it to the limits).

If you truly want an SQ system with a lot of output you need to change your front speakers first. Next will come dampening, then foam, then an MLV or lead layer. Next thing to pick is processing. What you have now won't cut it. Based on those steps you can pick your front stage. After all that is said and done you can then start to discuss subs, until then it is pointless if you truly want an SQ system.

You don't have enough electrical system capacity to run 2,000 watts. You will likely have problems with voltage drop, which will shut off your amp and could possibly damage it. Also, different box types don't have an affect on how well the sound travels into the cabin. That is largely dependant on your vehicle and how you orient the subs/ports. IA has enclosure recommendations under the Tech tab on their website.

sound quality I just ordered the saz1500D and plan on getting a 12" XCON. I am looking for a good quality 4 channel amp to run the mid's and high's. I can get the arc for the same price as the sax100.4 so price is not a problem. I am planning on getting arc's 6000 series component's. So I want sound quality for my mid's and high's.

I would underpower a BTL any day before I'd give a BL 1500 watts. In my application, SUV, BTL has a great audible advantage over the BL.

That's the point. I don't think anyone can use this responsibly. It whacks your mind out so bad it's hard to tell what is real. If you had a gun you might think you are robocop or some shit. I've done acid more times than I can remember so I wasn't worried when he said that. I've never had an experience like that on any acid. Acid seemed to only accentuate my surroundings while salvia put me into a whole new world. Kind of scary if you ask me.

I've done it a couple times. The first time I sunk into the chair I was sitting in like I was stuck, as billions of bugs started covering me. That was like 20x I think. The second time I smoked 100x. FUCK THAT. Never ever ever again. I was watching the simpsons while smoking it then all the sudden bam, I was skateboarding with bart. It may not sound that bad but what happened is hard to explain. It was like $50 for a half gram, not even near worth it IMO. I will never touch that shit again. It should def be illigal...

If you have never heard of this before then listen up. Im probably a little late on this but oh well. Salvia is an herb that is sold at local head shops around the nation. it is black in color and looks like tobacco with a wet kind of feel. I believe it comes from Mexico in different strengths ranging from 5x-100x. It can be ingested, smoked, and who knows what else. It is known to produce a trance like state of mind kind of like the Indians used to do back in the day. Way back. It is completely legal in all states but luckily on the DEA watch list. I was duped into trying this on my trip to Arkansas about a week or so ago. This guy told me it was like acid but not nearly as long a trip. Just kind of mellow he says. Let me tell you this stuff is pucking crazy! Ive done my fair share of hard drugs, unfortunately, and this salvia puts them to bed hands down. And this shit is legal! Acid and shrooms have nothing on this. NOTHING. Those two things used to be fun. Salvia is not. I took one big hit and within 10-15 seconds, I thought my life was over. I had entered the most realistic, cartoon dreamworld I had ever experienced. I could no longer move as I thought all my limbs were blended into the surrounding tree and fence and my feet were in concrete blocks. The guy that gave it to me was standing in front of me and the whole time I couldnt help but think he was causing all this shit to happen in my head. I was very paranoid and trippin out to say the least. At probably the 1.5-2 min mark, I was starting to get a little scared. It felt and looked so real I thought I wasnt coming back. After about 3-4 min of this I started to come back to reality. Any longer than that and I would have no doubt lost my pucking mind. When I was fully back in my own mind I realized that I was drenched in sweat. I had sweated through my wifebeater, my shirt, and my collered buttonup. I would go to say my central nervous system took a beating. Why this is not illegal is beyond my understanding. IMO this should be classified in the same realm as pcp. Even though Ive never done it, Ive been told its pretty wacky. I can see people on this stuff getting way outta hand. Getting seriously hurt and/or killed. The strengths range from 5x-100x as I stated before. Mine was only 20x. Gimme my weed and get that shit outta here. Never in my life will I ever do that again.