Harrison Labs Fluxcaps The holy grail of Step-up Transformers

[shizzzon 461]

If you do not know what these are, i'll explain it then go into great detail about the design application and see if it's what you want...

Fluxcaps are not fake, this isn't a movie joke, it is an actual device name given to a special capacitor that does many things-

It is a Battery isolator, Voltage Booster!, and capacitor all in one.

Standard versions put out a constant 14.7v(some restrictions may apply...) but this topic isn't for 14.7v... this topic is for 18v electrical system.

This device can be used on a stock or aftermarket 12v electrical system to bump up the voltage all the way to be able to charge or run an 18v electrical system to get the most power out of your amps that support such voltage.

So, how does it work, how much does it cost.. well here is what you are looking at-

These fluxcaps come in 3 typical models, 50A, 100A, 200A. I was told to go with 100A with typically any design regardless of power output because they are the cheapest to make.

So.. let's get down to price, because 16\18v setup is NOT CHEAP!

Let me explain how they work then i'll form an example of how much money it takes to run an 18v electrical system.

Let's say you have 2 100A flux caps wired in parallel, so 200A total.

They pull about 127A per 100A fluxcap to produce 18.5v @ 100A output.

They state that they will limit the current throughput but you can also damage them if it needs more current for high demands for constant use... so it's a catch 22...

They told me that when you max out the flux caps capability of outputting currenr, any more current required will cause the rated voltage output to start dropping! so it wil start to go down from 18.5 and keep going.

What this allows is for any 16v batts u have to compensate once the voltage reaches low enough.

So, the alternator provides the power to make these fluxcaps up convert to 18.5v. If your altnernator can't handle it, u will need a 12v battery bank behind the fluxcaps to compensate for current demands through the fluxcap. If the voltage input gets too low cuz you are depleting your batts, it will shut down.

You can also use them as like an 18v alternator in a sense.

You can run high output 12v alternator, stock batt if u want, couple flux caps and a massive 16v battery bank.

I only suggest doing this for burps or very short blasts for daily use!

If u have lets say 2 100A flux caps, 200A alt, stock battery, 8 16v batteries and 1000A worth of fused amps in the back.

Your peak note pulls 600A of current.

When you burp, the alternator will max out trying to supply 200A of current output through the fluxcaps. If it runs out of juice, it will pull the rest from the 12v battery.

The fluxcaps then will sense that it needs another 400A of current that it just can't do so it's output voltage will drop to that of the 16v battery bank. The 16v battery bank will supply the other 400A of current until the burp stopped.

Once the burp has stopped, the fluxcaps now will act like an 18v alternator trying to charge the 8 16v batts back up.

If it pulls more than it's needed input recommended fuse rating of ~127A per 100A fluxcap constantly.. it will damage it! Also, the more current it tries to put out at or near max potential, the more it's voltage output will decrease.... another catch 22 for it's intended use.

They recommend putting a fuse on the input line because if there is not fluxcaps in the setup to run the ENTIRE audio system by just flux caps and 12v batts behind the caps powering the caps, then the fuse will blow and prevent the caps from overloading. That's kinda retarded really....

So, if u use them to run a whole setup, gonna be $$$, if u use them for battery charging, can only use them for few minute durations if batteries need a long charge. voltage wil drop as duration continues at full tilt and will eventually blow a fuse to prevent overloading..

So, just how $$$ are these?

Each 100A cap is $400!

So, let's see what's cheaper-

Let's say we want to achieve 20,000w of power.

Our amps can handle 18.5v for this example.

Our amps right now are rated for 3500w at 14.4v, or 6,500w at 18.5v.

Each amp is $700.

Here we go-

12v 250A alternator - $500

18v 250A alternator - $500

We will need 6 of these amps to produce 21000w @ 14.4v

6 amps - $4200

Now for math sake, let's match batts to amps in terms of 50% fuse rating = aH capacity of batts for a proper comparison of 12v vs 18v.

So, 6 of these amps has an 1800A fuse rating, so we want 900aH worth of 12v batt-

8 D3100s = $2640 ($330 per battery)

Ok, let's round up the pricing here-

I'm not countin the alternator as it will always be the same price for both electrical systems.

Amps = $4200

Batts = $2640

Total = $6840

Now let's look at the alternative -

For a pure 18v system, you need stepdown transformers because they only do 25A continuous, 50A peak per unit.

Let's say we have 250A worth of fusing to run mids and highs and to run the car!

Car = 50A average, mids\high amp = 125A average use out of mids n highs amp totaling = 175A continous to be safe!

step down transformers - $115 each, need 7 of them so - $805

4 amps at 18.5v does 26,000w yay!, lol = $2800

4 amps has 1200A fusing so we need 600aH worth of batts...

12 D1000s - ($250 per batt) - $3000

Pricing time -

Transformers - $805

Amps - $2800

Batts - $3000

Total - $6805 That's a $35 dollar savings plus 5000w extra watts... However, what if u already have a 12v high output alt?

You would then have to buy an external regulator and labor charge TWICE to have it uninstalled, shipped back, then reinstalled ~ $300 more...

Now you are looking at $7105.

Now let's look at Fluxcaps!

4 amps at 18.5v does 26,000w = $2800

4 amps has 1200A fusing so we need 600A worth of flux caps! ahh!!!

6 100A flux caps = $2400

12v battery bank to supply demand - 5 D3100s (585aH + high output alternator)= $1650

2 16v D1000s to compensate for over current demands beyond 600A - $500.

Pricing roundup-

Amps - $2800

Fluxcaps - $2400

12v battery bank- $1650

16v battery bank - $500

Total - $7350! wow...

Now let's look at the alternative-

Still using flux caps, just VERY FEW of them and a large bank of 16v batts.

4 amps at 18.5v 26000w = $2800

1 D3100 behind fluxcaps = $330

2 100A Fluxcaps = $800

need about 600aH of capacity, fluxcaps already taken care of 200A worth, so we need 400A of 16v battery.

8 D1000s = $2,000.

Price time -

Amps = $2800

All batts combined = $2330

Fluxcaps = $800

Total = $5950!

So we have a winner, running massive 16v bank with low numbered flux caps saves the most money...

Problem here though is you can ONLY do this for short durations.

Once the flux caps are overloaded, they will be on the verge of their fuse popping. Regardless if fuse pops or not, if u are drawing several hundred amps of current, the voltage drop will be at the batt's float or lower!

So, running less fluxcaps is somewhat risky because even when the burp is done, it will want to charge the batts back up risking another overload scenario and possibly blowing out a fuse.

So, to run the cheapest alternative is after the burp, to disconnect the turn on wire and manually charge the 16v bank on a REAL charger ONLY if the fluxcaps can't handle the load due to the battery bank being to discharged.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Is your name Chris Fryman?

[shizzzon 461]

no, unless i've been lied to my whole life.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Okay, well, I'm going to start calling you Chris.

[shizzzon 461]

who is chris fryman?

[CrazyKenKid 64]

Nice wright up. I was actualy going to p/m you about these fluxcaps b/c i was interested in them and you showed knowledge of them on another post!

i think you explained your self quite well congrats! and thanks for sharing it was well worth the read and i have learned that 18volts is way out of my league and very expensive!

[SPLScion 3]

damn thats alot of cash for the "cheap" alternative to then have to disconnect and charge with a real charger. Seems almost worth it for option one.

Thanks for putting that all out like that, makes it easier to understand. Freaken expensive :-(

[SPLScion 3]

fryman the teacher or film maker? or some one else all together?

[shizzzon 461]

well every alternative is gonna be expensive.. look at the example, lol it's over 20,000w of power!

[SPLScion 3]

Thats kind of what I mean, all 3 ways are expensive so it'd be worth it to me to pay the extra grand to not have to instanly disconnect. Besides, you'd have to get a portable generator to charge them unless they have power you can use at every comp you go to, so the money you save would be lost there plus the inconvenience of bringing the generator with you.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Save your money, build your own..

http://www.instructables.com/id/Flux-Capacitor/

[Adrian_D 520]

Save your money, build your own..

http://www.instructables.com/id/Flux-Capacitor/

[///M5 2,833]

Let me explain how they work then i'll form an example of how much money it takes to run an 18v electrical system.

Let's say you have 2 100A flux caps wired in parallel, so 200A total.

They pull about 127A per 100A fluxcap to produce 18.5v @ 100A output.

They state that they will limit the current throughput but you can also damage them if it needs more current for high demands for constant use... so it's a catch 22...

They told me that when you max out the flux caps capability of outputting currenr, any more current required will cause the rated voltage output to start dropping! so it wil start to go down from 18.5 and keep going.

What this allows is for any 16v batts u have to compensate once the voltage reaches low enough.

So, the alternator provides the power to make these fluxcaps up convert to 18.5v. If your altnernator can't handle it, u will need a 12v battery bank behind the fluxcaps to compensate for current demands through the fluxcap. If the voltage input gets too low cuz you are depleting your batts, it will shut down.

*****

If u have lets say 2 100A flux caps, 200A alt, stock battery, 8 16v batteries and 1000A worth of fused amps in the back.

Your peak note pulls 600A of current.

When you burp, the alternator will max out trying to supply 200A of current output through the fluxcaps. If it runs out of juice, it will pull the rest from the 12v battery.

The fluxcaps then will sense that it needs another 400A of current that it just can't do so it's output voltage will drop to that of the 16v battery bank. The 16v battery bank will supply the other 400A of current until the burp stopped.

Once the burp has stopped, the fluxcaps now will act like an 18v alternator trying to charge the 8 16v batts back up.

Holy Grail, lol.

I am still waiting for the explanation that you promised, exactly how do these "work". All I see is "they said" and "they told me" and then the claim that you have an intelligent switch and a simulated alternator with no explanation of how this happens.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

[shizzzon 461]

ok, i'll try and explain how they work later on this evening after i get off work.

[shizzzon 461]

ok this is my understanding of how they work-

Back to the Future

The End...

Ok, now onto another understanding of how they work-

Fluxcaps are used to maintain constant output voltage until they get overloaded. Once they reach their maximum current capability, their voltage begins to drop.

The 12v electrical system supplies the power necessary for these fluxcaps to work.

So, if you have a single 100A fluxcap that is set to 18.5v output, that means that it will pull current from the alternator and, if necessary, the battery(ies) to properly get the current it needs to step up the voltage.

Fluxcaps are rated by their output capabiity, they draw more than what they put out.

So, if you have a single 100A fluxcap rated to do 18.5v, based on a constant 14.4v output, it would pull 130.4A after it's 1.5% loss due to efficiency.

They rate these fluxcaps at 98.5% efficient.

So, single 100A would pull 130.4A at 14.4.. If you had a bank of these fluxcaps, eventually, the alternator would NOT be able to supply all the power.... so you would need a 12v bank of batteries to compensate.

So, let's say someone was running 4 of these 100A caps at 18.5v output off of a 250A alternator.

Let's assume that only 200A could be supplied to it before it fell to the surface charge... at 13.0v.

Let's also assume that average voltage was 12.9v until the draw ended. It would require 145.5A per cap to supply the 18.5v.

These amp requirements are maximum requirements to produce maximum continuous current rated output from these fluxcaps.

So, now that you know that-

fluxcaps can be viewed, in a sense, as an alternator because whatever is supplying the highest voltage is what supplies the power.

If the fluxcaps are not being overloaded, then when current demand is requested, it is sent straight from the 12v alt and if not enough, through 12v battery(ies) through the fluxcap(s) and over any 16v batt that may exist straight to the amp.

If the fluxcap(s) are being overloaded, just like an alternator which can't supply the current load, the voltage will begin to drop on the output side of the fluxcap.

Just like an alternator, it can\will damage the fluxcap if doing this constantly. At the point the voltage drops low enough, amps will then pull power from any 16v battery that may exist.

If you have a bank of fluxcaps that require more amperage than what the 12v alt can handle AND you have at least 1 16v battery after the fluxcaps and at some point the fluxcaps become overloaded.... multiple will occur once the overloading ceases.

For one, the alt will now be required to recharge the 12v battery(ies) that can to suffer providing large current to the fluxcaps for a high ass demand. Not only that but it's now gonna take even more current to be passed through the fluxcaps to charge any 16v battery(ies) back there...

Hehe, so u see how this can end bad if not paying special attention to a setup like this.

the alt would try to supply max power, when revved high enough that is, to the 12v batt(s) AND the 16v batt with wasted current through the fluxcaps...

what would end up happening now is the alt would again be maxed out and the fluxcaps would start to drain the 12v bank to charge the 16v bank....

Eventually something will die, lol.

So, point of this is, there comes a time where a single alternator can only charge so many batts due to a MASSIVE discharge and will eventually die if left discharged too long trying to recharge all this equipment.

In my opinion, IF someone wanted to run a single alternator and let's say 2000A of discharge current on the 18v side.. knowing that you must have a massive 12v and a somehwat bank of 16v or vice versa, do NOT let the fluxcap come back on when the car is started and drive at very low rpms to prevent max alt output to try and charge 12v bank.

Battery charger would be 105% mandatory in this scenario.

I hope u see how these work now.

I'm not downing them in terms of them being terrible choice, i'm trying to get as detailed as possible because there is LOTS of responsibility when running these for 18v installs.

By default, they come set to provide a constant 14.7v but can be custom tuned to higher voltages...

If one needed a constant 14.7, then all the batteries would be before the fluxcaps because it takes more current to maintain voltage.

So, if someone has a LARGE bank of batteries for a large install, these would be awesome to have and able to burp at a constant 14.7 rather than 13.0 or lower if u didnt have 100s and 100s and 100s of amps for alternators.

[///M5 2,833]

That still sounds like a marketing description of how they work and not a scientific description.

Also curious as to how they measured the 98.5% efficiency as I am dubious.

[shizzzon 461]

well, if this info still isn't satisfying, you can always email them or call them.website is www.hlabs.comthey told me that their car audio market is really more geared toward the military these days.sundownz also owns a couple. you can inquire some info from him too.

[///M5 2,833]

I have no need for one, but want to make sure that anyone reading advice understands it.

Your description to me is akin to saying Capacitors help your subs play by storing energy and releasing it when your car cannot supply enough power to your subwoofer amplifier. While this description is a bit true, we all know that it isn't enough to make a decision on and rarely will actually help the task at hand. In most scenario's it is easy to describe why these won't be helpful for a particular installation or vice versa but reciting what marketing has offered isn't useful in this process.

[shizzzon 461]

oh, i hope you aren't viewing these as capacitors!

Yes they call them fluxcaps and yes, even the description of them state that one of the features of them is a capacitor but the research i was doing had absolutely nothing to do with capacitors in what you are referring to.

I actually did standard 12\14v cap research after i was researching this and came across an article that proved how much capacitance one would need to actually gain something by using caps...

The discharge states that is you have a 50farad cap, that if you discharge 50A of current for 1 second, the cap will drop 1 volt. So 100A would be 2 volts for 1 second and so on..

For somebody like me who only has a 0.8v drop on my burp note for spl competition, i would need about 750Farad of caps just to roughly equal my 0.8v drop for 3 full seconds...

750farad? vs 2 batteries... hmm... i think we all know the better choice here.

This is another example of when to use flux caps-

Now keep in mind that my focus is for competition. Because it takes a lot of power for our ears to hear an increase of power, using fluxcaps to increase the power for daily driving as the primary purpose is a waste of money..

Now, here is another example to use flux in competiiton-

Let's say that you don't want the 18v step up install, you just want standard 14v so you don't have to mess with all these different batteries.

Well, for example sake, let's say you own a small 4 cylinder car and that car has 100,000w worth of amps in it.

That little car could not possibly have enough alternators to run that setup so it would do it with the vehicle off of course.

Let's say the burp note is pulling 3,000A of current.

Well, lol, let's say we have 3,000aH worth of battery in the vehicle. (wow, this i'd like to see, )

When the burp starts, the battery bank will more than likely suffer a 1v drop after a couple seconds so the amps would only see about 12-12.2v from a float of 13-13.2v...

So again, the batts are only seein right at around 12v flat...

If we wanted the batts to see 14.7v.. we would have to have enough alts to run it.... OR enough fluxcaps and 12v batts to do the conversion.

For this example, at 3,000A draw, (100A fluxcaps have a 150A quick discharge for them so...) you would need a minimum of 20 100A fluxcaps and about 4,000aH (guessing) worth of 12v batts.

Point - sticking with 12v system- if you have the room to fill an area full of batts, WAY more than what you need but need higher voltage when car is off or not enough alternator to keep up... use those extra batteries that you can fit in the vehicle for the fluxcaps to up the voltage so u get more power to the amps.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

If you plan on driving a car that will use 3000amps in any situation, you are stupid.

[shizzzon 461]

i hope u didnt think that was a real anology

[///M5 2,833]

i hope u didnt think that was a real anology

why did you take my analogy seriously then?

Again sounds like marketing, why do they "work"?

[shizzzon 461]

no, hehe, ok now all three of us are gettin confused here...

M5, i was talkin to tirefryr because i didnt want to use a more "common" type anology because different solutions could be used so i had to go crazy with the anology.

I wasn't referring to you.

But again, (///M5), i've never talked about how to use them as a capacitor and neither did Hlabs. It was purely for the step-up transformer portion of it's description.

[///M5 2,833]

My analogy wasn't that I was saying these were like caps, but that your description was like that of a cap manufacturer. I am sure this is partly why tirefryr asked you about your analogy...