What subs would be best?

[Hell-Razor 0]

I have some other questions that Ill throw in here seeing as ///M5 doesn't like me starting new topics for well, new topics.

Is there an easy way to find out how much wire you need for wiring two batteries together (I think its pos to pos, neg to neg)? zero gauge wire isn't very cheap and I am going to need (I would think) about 20-25 feet of it to do my big 3, and wiring for my batteries. I could just run a string from my back to the front inside the car I guess then measure that. May be more hassle though then needed.

What do you guys recommend for a heat source to solder the wiring to the terminal ring to the wire itself? Or is there a terminal ring that doesn't need to be soldered? I was told that its very hard to solder anything thicker than a 4 gauge because you pretty much have to melt the wire before you can solder anything and be efficient (may be wrong though). I have one of the Craftsman Soldering Guns but not sure if it has enough umph to solder 0 gauge.

Going at where I think I am going to go, I would most likely get the 12" BTL's unless there's something I see within the next week or so that says no for me. What would you guys recommend for an amp to power both them?

What is the average shop cost for installing an alternator for you guys? I am not 200% sure how to install an alt and I have been looking around for people to either install it for me or help me install it. There is what I think the intake manifold over the top of the alt and it looks pretty tough to take that thing off.

For wiring circumstances, should I run the power wire opposite sides than everything else? I remember reading some wires will give out "noise" to others and you will hear buzzing sometimes from stepping on the accelerator or engine noise...

Is 12gauge wiring good enough for front end speakers? I will be throwing about 150 watts tops at them

Edited September 21, 2009 by Hell-Razor

[crosspug 2]

I have some other questions that Ill throw in here seeing as ///M5 doesn't like me starting new topics for well, new topics.

Is there an easy way to find out how much wire you need for wiring two batteries together (I think its pos to pos, neg to neg)? zero gauge wire isn't very cheap and I am going to need (I would think) about 20-25 feet of it to do my big 3, and wiring for my batteries. I could just run a string from my back to the front inside the car I guess then measure that. May be more hassle though then needed.

Just measure it with string, guessing won't help especially if its too short.

What do you guys recommend for a heat source to solder the wiring to the terminal ring to the wire itself? Or is there a terminal ring that doesn't need to be soldered? I was told that its very hard to solder anything thicker than a 4 gauge because you pretty much have to melt the wire before you can solder anything and be efficient (may be wrong though). I have one of the Craftsman Soldering Guns but not sure if it has enough umph to solder 0 gauge.

I use an 80w soldering iron for 0gauge terminals and it works fine. Certainly doesn't "melt the wire" but does make a decent length (20inches) quite warm. You could also crimp the terminals on (using a true crimping tool).

Going at where I think I am going to go, I would most likely get the 12" BTL's unless there's something I see within the next week or so that says no for me. What would you guys recommend for an amp to power both them?

Whatever the hell makes decent unclipped power.

For wiring circumstances, should I run the power wire opposite sides than everything else? I remember reading some wires will give out "noise" to others and you will hear buzzing sometimes from stepping on the accelerator or engine noise...

Some/Most believe that running RCA's near power wire can cause noise......

Is 12gauge wiring good enough for front end speakers? I will be throwing about 150 watts tops at them

Should be fine IMHO.

Jono

[Hell-Razor 0]

Not going to quote everything but sweet, thanks cross

[Hell-Razor 0]

Alright hopefully this will help you guys better narrow down what I want and help me out:

I have done tons of research on what sub I should pick and it seems to me that my best bet is the BTL. What I do not know about though is if I will have enough air in the trunk so I do not starve the subs. I originally though about getting the 18" but I need more air than than my trunk has. So after talking which Shizzzon I was talked down to four 10's. But if I want to run competitions (would like to) this would be a disadvantage. So we decided to go with as much cone space as possible and we picked two 12"s. The only problem is is that we did not decide on what speakers to get and this is what I have been trying to figure out sense. One thing I don't understand is he said the last time we talked something along the lines of "you're right but with as much power as you plan on runnin, subs back and port back with the required box volume would be insanely too large for your trunk." Could somebody explain this? Is he trying to say that if I reduce the power I plan on running I will be ok? Or am I not running enough power?... I was told that the more power you put at a sub usually means the smaller box (within the recommendations) you can have. With his statement and what I have read I think this may be false.

EDIT: I think I just realized what he meant by sealing off the trunk. Does he mean something like Trevor Komants box where no air can move back into the trunk, but the port is still in the trunk. So you kind of turn the cabin of the car into the "box". Also I mean the one with four subs in it that looks like it was fiberglassed. Not his first angled one.

Now for the past systems I have heard, it has been a lot of the mass produced woofers. I have heard a lot of MTX's stuff and they were alright (mainly the thunder line). They seemed to lack the lows a little bit but got nice and loud. I currently have a single MTX Thunder 8500 10" in my old car (Oldsmobeal Alero 2003) and liked it for being how cheap it was. Again, the lows could use some improvement but it did nice for the range. It did sound kind of boomy to me. Like it was just pumping out as much bass as it could and wasn't trying to keep it tight. This could be a car / box / sound deadening problem though. I do not know the exact dimensions but they were the recommended ones. It was also in a ported box. I know I have heard some old school JL woofers (3 10") and those sounded pretty nice. Seemed to be able to keep the bass less boomy but was even louder and hit harder than my single 10". The guy also did not have any sound deadening installed and this was in his Honda. I know it was a sealed box with all three facing towards the trunk. Besides those two examples, I have heard things mainly in audio shops. One of the company's around here were showing me their JL W7's and W0's and I didn't like them. They seemed over hyped, and for the price out of line. They sounded very boomy and off a little bit like they were holding the low notes a little too long, kind of sloppy is another way to explain it. I also heard some of their square kicker subs that they said were "bran new". I am not sure what they were though besides "the new ones". Those sounded better to me than the W0 JL's and sounded much more tight to the song and when the bass line ended, so did the sub. It didn't seem to hold onto a note any longer than need be. The lows matched what they were in the song (we were listening to Ice Cream Paint Job) when it seemed the W0 didnt. It was like I had on a nice pair of Sannheiser headphones. Everything sounded clean with the kicker sub and that's what my main goal is is to have the music sound clean and clear and loud.

For my music preferences, I like a little bit of everything. I would prefer my highs to stand out just as well as the mids. I have picked some very nice c2 JL speakers I heard and they seem to be able to get the job done. I was listening to them with a W0 at pretty high volume behind me (inside the shop though, not a car) and they seemed to be able to blend in but not lose anything quite well. I enjoy bands such as Pendulum, Pantera, Pink Floyd, Mudvayne, Disturbed, Dirtyphonics, Dream Theater and the list goes on. I am not a huge fan of rap unless it has a great bass line underneath everything. Something like Dorroughs' "Trunk Bang" has a great beat or "Ice Cream Paint Job". I also enjoy electronic type of music (dubstep, dropstep, drum and bass) where they require the bass to kind of over power everything.

I plan to be installing this into the trunk of my 2002 VW Passat and would like to have all this look stock. I will be adding a high output alternator by Excessive Amperage (200 amps vs my 120 amp alt) which should be able to keep up with my system. On top of that I am getting a D3100 battery and am also tossing in the Big 3 with zero gauge wiring and plan on linking the two batteries together with the same zero gauge. I will be putting the big battery into the trunk and then running smaller sections of zero gauge to one of the amps with a 4 gauge going to my smaller amp. Right now my budget is 3500$. I have spent money on my deck, my alt, my smaller wiring kit, my smaller amp and some little things. Right now I have about 2400 left to pick out subs and a amp to power them, a big wiring kit (zero gauge), the battery and wires.

Now back to the BTL, two may be overkill for my needs. With no front end in my old car and the 8500, all I could hear was the bass line and I do not want that. But with these new front end speakers and the amplifier I have (SAX 50.4) they should be able to keep up pretty well with minimal gain lowerage on the bass. It may be best for me to only pick a single BTL because if I understand Shizzzons concern correctly, I am putting too much power in the trunk. With picking a single one it may sound less "boomy" and I would still be able to compete in a easier class for competitions. As far as installing this, my friend will be helping me out. He has all the tools need be but I have zero, absolutely zero knowledge on how to wire all of this. I do know people that do so installing it shouldn't be a problem. If anything it will just take a while.

My system goals would be for me to be able to hear the layers of music well and to not overpower anything. I also want to be able to go to competitions. I am told that any woofer can be used for this because it has to do with boxes. This just may be bad advice though due to my inexperience. As I said before my installation experience is minimal so I would like to keep modifying (but still making it look stock) at a minimal. Like my friend may not be available forever so ripping all the door panels off and adding sound deadening may be tough. I am a quick learner though and if I have other resources as in picture / video / phone calls I should be able to figure it out. I have a bunch of the foam they use now in sound recording rooms. I don't know how well this will work for a car but at this point, it will be better than nothing.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Hell-Razor

[shizzzon 461]

i didnt want you to run 3kw+ facing everything to the rear unless you had massive amount of free space around the trunk for the box to breathe.

You must also realize that you will need a TON of deadening back in that trunk if u faced it like that too.

Expect your trunk latch to fail, brake lights possibly, loose wiring... anything that is fragile back there.

Firing forward is a better scenario for you. Plus with that kind of power, you will have a great port area design firing forward.

For the music you listen too, i think u are goin overkill on the subs unless, like you say, u want competition too.

2 12s and 3kw+ is gonna kill your front stage.

Back when i ran 2 12s and 4400w, i always had to attenuate the bass for the music to sound well balanced and my front stage is ran off of a 100.4

[Hell-Razor 0]

Ill have to dial it down then until I hit the comp stage...or just want to show off.

[Hell-Razor 0]

i didnt want you to run 3kw+ facing everything to the rear unless you had massive amount of free space around the trunk for the box to breathe.

You must also realize that you will need a TON of deadening back in that trunk if u faced it like that too.

Expect your trunk latch to fail, brake lights possibly, loose wiring... anything that is fragile back there.

Firing forward is a better scenario for you. Plus with that kind of power, you will have a great port area design firing forward.

For the music you listen too, i think u are goin overkill on the subs unless, like you say, u want competition too.

2 12s and 3kw+ is gonna kill your front stage.

Back when i ran 2 12s and 4400w, i always had to attenuate the bass for the music to sound well balanced and my front stage is ran off of a 100.4

Alright. I guess I will just wait for our consult in a few days.

[Hell-Razor 0]

[sigh] well I screwed up big time I think. I was pointed to a pair of JL Audio C2 that will fit my car. They sound awesome and everything but I failed to realize these are not with tweeters. Can anybody suggest a pair of tweeters? Or just go look for some. I am good on the high I just need something that will go well with the JL Audio C2-600X. It says on crutchfields website on these speakers that it comes with a tweeter but I didn't get it if there is one...

[Hell-Razor 0]

Edit from the post above (I cannot edit it for some reason), I meant to ask if JL sold just their tweeters or will I have to get another brand

[jcarter1885 995]

Yes JL Audio sells tweeters, go look on their website or any car audio store's website that sells JL Audio and you will fine (you just gotta look).

[Tirefryr 1,742]

[sigh] well I screwed up big time I think. I was pointed to a pair of JL Audio C2 that will fit my car. They sound awesome and everything but I failed to realize these are not with tweeters. Can anybody suggest a pair of tweeters? Or just go look for some. I am good on the high I just need something that will go well with the JL Audio C2-600X. It says on crutchfields website on these speakers that it comes with a tweeter but I didn't get it if there is one...

You bought a pair of coaxials. They have the tweeter mounted in the center of the driver itself.

[Hell-Razor 0]

doh.

so should I just use them? or return them?

[Tirefryr 1,742]

If you like them, keep them. It's all about what you like, not what others like.

[jcarter1885 995]

After that mistake and not knowing what type of simple speakers you bought are you sure your ready for a 3000watt or more install. Slow down and take your time man or you will just end up wasting money and equipment (believe me I have been there).

[Hell-Razor 0]

After that mistake and not knowing what type of simple speakers you bought are you sure your ready for a 3000watt or more install. Slow down and take your time man or you will just end up wasting money and equipment (believe me I have been there).

It was a dumb mistake and I like the sound of these speakers. If anything Ill upgrade the front end and throw these in back. My car already has good tweeters so Ill keep the stock ones and toss these in. I have to admit the front end is probably what I know the least about.

[Hell-Razor 0]

Alright lets see here. I just measured out the length from the front to the back of my car and its about 15 feet give all the twists and turns and running it under everything. Does this sound right for you guys running a 4 door to the trunk? this would mean I would need roughly 30 feet of 0 gauge wire (expensive!!!!). I figure I would want to fuse both lines (+ and -) but with what fuse? 300a?

Also I am looking at getting the 0 gauge amp kit and a SAZ-3500D...should I get a 300a fuse as well with this thing? I think I should but I am to the point where I put in my CC info and it never asked me what fuse I want.

And just let me make sure I have it correct. I want to fuse the two wires from the big bat to the main bat, then fuse the wires going to the amps? or seeing as they have built in fuses do I still need to? (should I is what I mean)

Edited September 26, 2009 by Hell-Razor

[///M5 2,833]

. I have to admit the front end is probably what I know the least about.

Not so sure, you've been given some seriously crap advice but with the way you react it isn't a surprise.

[jcarter1885 995]

Alright lets see here. I just measured out the length from the front to the back of my car and its about 15 feet give all the twists and turns and running it under everything. Does this sound right for you guys running a 4 door to the trunk? this would mean I would need roughly 30 feet of 0 gauge wire (expensive!!!!). I figure I would want to fuse both lines (+ and -) but with what fuse? 300a?

Also I am looking at getting the 0 gauge amp kit and a SAZ-3500D...should I get a 300a fuse as well with this thing? I think I should but I am to the point where I put in my CC info and it never asked me what fuse I want.

And just let me make sure I have it correct. I want to fuse the two wires from the big bat to the main bat, then fuse the wires going to the amps? or seeing as they have built in fuses do I still need to? (should I is what I mean)

So you said that you want to fuse the positive and negative wire, why?

[Hell-Razor 0]

So you said that you want to fuse the positive and negative wire, why?

Not saying I want to. Just asking if I should. Or will running wire without fuses to the pos and neg terms be alright for battery to battery?

[shizzzon 461]

never fuse the negative wiring unless strictly told too.

Some devices use a positive ground.. not in car audio though that i am familiar with.

The underbody lights i have on my car uses a positive ground, therefore, must be fused.

To wire from front battery to rear, do the following-

From front battery, once wire starts leaving this battery, place fuse within 18" of the battery... run your wire to the other battery... if this new battery is different from your starting battery, install a solenoid at this point to prolong the life of your battery... then within 18" of your rear battery, place another fuse here.

Ground your starting battery with a larger ground run or even multiple runs to the car. Do the same to your rear battery.

[///M5 2,833]

never fuse the negative wiring unless strictly told too.

Curious why and who would strictly tell you

[shizzzon 461]

Some european products i use require the ground to be fused because it uses positive ground.

Why even argue the point of proving why or why not to fuse a non-positive ground? That question is gonna start confusing people.

Technically- if someone wanted to fuse the ground for the hell of it... that will add resistance which can cause voltage drop or amp to heat up a little. If the fuse pops due to excessive current draw... that's a waste of money to replace because it shouldnt even be there!

And who would tell someone to fuse the ground? The companies that use positive grounds.

[jcarter1885 995]

never fuse the negative wiring unless strictly told too.

Some devices use a positive ground.. not in car audio though that i am familiar with.

The underbody lights i have on my car uses a positive ground, therefore, must be fused.

To wire from front battery to rear, do the following-

From front battery, once wire starts leaving this battery, place fuse within 18" of the battery... run your wire to the other battery... if this new battery is different from your starting battery, install a solenoid at this point to prolong the life of your battery... then within 18" of your rear battery, place another fuse here.

Ground your starting battery with a larger ground run or even multiple runs to the car. Do the same to your rear battery.

We are not talking about lights here, we were referring to car audio systems ( I never heard of fusing ground wires and if your supposed to do so then every car install I did was wrong).

[///M5 2,833]

Wasn't an argument, just didn't make a whole lot of sense.

A little extra resistance isn't worth worrying about.

*note I am not recommending a negative ground instead of one, but was curious why you would Never use one when you could fuse both sections.

**not recommending double fuses either, but the whole Never needed clarification

I also have not seen any car audio products that use a positive ground and therefore couldn't imagine anyone telling you to do it Strictly

[shizzzon 461]

It doesn't matter what exactly you were referring to, there are some cases in the automotive world that some products use positive grounds.

When i first got my lights in, i thought they accidentally put the fuse on the wrong wire and i was about to swap the fuse to the other wire... but after doing research, i found out why.

not everything in the automotive world is the same and the lights i was referring to are strictly for automotive use.

If you never find out... how are you suppose to know?

I really dont understand the reason why u posted at all...

I already stated that i do not know if any car audio products use a positive ground because i have never used every single piece of equipment in history from all around the world and also stated how it should be wired all in the same post.