SQ Three Way Front Stage

[Impious 1,476]

you said Q but actually gave the Qms figure which again hurts the 12m.

No, I gave the Qts as measured by Zaph Audio, as I specifically stated in my post. The Qms of the 12m isn't even close to .52

I'm more than a bit confused as to how you could misinterpret me, when I specifically stated that it was the Qts of the 12m as measured by Zaph.

http://www.zaphaudio...st/compare.html

the Qms or moving mass of the L4 is half of that of the 12m.

The L4 does have a lower stated Qms and moving mass......but I'm failing to see the point of you mentioning that as it doesn't make one driver better or worse than the other.

I have heard both in sponsored team installs that were both top-notch. I spoke with both installers, and also demoed both vehicles. One vehicle was using scanspeak drivers and the other hybrid drivers. the scanspeak driver had a LPF on it at 4khz because it got extremely sharp and unnatural above that range. not a big deal as tweeters are used for that range anyway, but for versatility the L4's ability to play up and through 17khz perfectly clean is an advantage. on the low-end, the 12m drops off pretty hard ~140 hz. and it even struggles at ~160 hz. the 8" drivers used in the scanspeak install were xover at 160 as that was the lowest installer felt was still reproduced efficiently by the scanspeak. the L4 was crossovered down at least to 125 hz in the three team hybrid demo's I got. and one of them had it rolling off naturally on a 12db/slope at 100hz. That is quite impressive for a 4" mid.

Unfortunately how two different installers used one particular driver in their particular installations does not characterize the drivers as a whole.....simply how they were used in that particular install, in that particular vehicle, tuned by that particular installer. It's not a valid comparison, hence the usefulness of objective measurements.

Just to give a different example of how experiences for different people in different installations will vary.....Many people who have used the JBL 2118H will tell you that they are no good below 80hz, yet Mark Eldridge used them in his vehicle down to 40hz.

i say nowhere near the power capabilites because of audible clarity loss and distortion levels of the 12m at higher volumes. The L4's, although recommended to xover at 140 hz at higher levels remains perfectly clean and clear with even more than the rated 175 watts of power. (note at this volume it is hardly an SQ demo, but does show capabilities of the drivers)

Again, I request a valid reference for this statement. Saying "because that's what I heard" is not a valid reference, especially when comparing two different installations in two different vehicles. Again I will mention the usefulness of objective measurements.

the L4 is the only midrange on the market to stay within 2 db SPL on the response curve within its recommended xover points or frequency response.

Again, I request independent objective measurements that confirm this.

the scanspeak, like the average midrange varies by 5db. that is a huge difference.

Zaph's graph I posted earlier shows it's within 3db from approx 150hz to approx 7.5khz. While Scanspeak doesn't really provide "recommended xover points" as they are more in the OEM/DIY market, I'd say that reasonably covers the range most 4" drivers are used within, and 3db is a standard range of acceptability.

the L4 uses a lighter motor structure and larger magnet resulting in less moving mass and higher control. audiblly the results are a quicker smoother response and the ability to play the very high frequencies.

What marketing literature did you get that from?

The L4 may have lower Mms, but the 12m has higher motor force (both in terms of strictly BL and BL^2/Re). So the L4 does not have a "larger magnet" (i.e. stronger motor).

Regardless, your first sentences does not prove the second. The more you attempt to discuss the driver objectively, the easier it is to see you don't actually understand it.

I don't understand why you guys, who to my knowledge, may be wrong and do not want to assume, but to my knowledge are not SQ experts and do not spend much time with SQ.

While nobody here is an "expert", you would be horribly wrong to presume that many of us here are not interested in the quality of sound moreso than quantity.

Hybrid has proven itself as a world class audio driver since the beginning of the company. I did extensive research and had the opportunity to get a few demos from many amazing SQ cars, and in the end I chose Hybrid Audio. I will agree that great sounding speakers and what you think the best sounding speakers is very much personal opinion, which is why I have made several recommendations to the OP. IMO Hybrid is and until I find something better to me the best out there. especially for the money. if you disagree and like something fine,

Are you getting paid for all of the marketing you provide them? If not, you should be.

but it is quite obvious I can back up my reasoning

Actually, you have yet to back up your reasoning with anything substantial. Thus far it's all been a subjective marketing-propaganda type of approach from you, and when more objective details are brought up you generally provide nothing useful or don't understand the subject matter.

I will say I find it funny how when Hybrid Audio is a part of the SSA forum it's a great speaker, and now they are not, everytime I mention it someone that is adament SSA has to try and cut them down. I'm not here to try and influence anyone to feel that what I feel is the best they should also, and I don't understand why you guys are seeming to do just that.

If you could provide anything objective that backed up your opinion, I'd be all for it. Thus far, you've failed to do so.

And if you go back and read my posts, the only negative comment I have made against Hybrid is that the one driver I've seen objectively tested wasn't really anything special. So far I've simply been asking you to provide some kind of real support for your comments....which you've really yet to do. So far they only thing you've really provided is that 1) you've listened to them and liked them, and 2) they've won some trophies.

BTW: Name what hybrid vehicle any of you have sat in and demoed. Name them, please, I would love to know.

None.

I would also love to know what drivers you believe are the best and then show results of any good sized SQ competition in the last few years where they have proven themselves, and dont' give the trophies don't mean anything BS, they aren't everything, but you can def. get an idea of what is worth running and what isn't by going to competitions.

You would have to be extremely ignorant or naive to believe there is a "best" anything. So it's a relatively stupid question to begin with. But, to throw you a bone....when the weather gets warm again (doubt I'll have time to finish the system before winter) I will be using Image Dynamics CD2Neo full body horns (which have been used in dozens of award winning and world-championship sound quality vehicles) with a pair of either JBL 2118H mids (used by the likes of Mark Eldridge and Dr. Doug Winker, et al, to win many sound quality trophies, awards and world-championships) or CSS Trio8's (they are newcomers to the speaker world so they have no pedigree). I have both of the mids, plan to try them both and see which I prefer.

[///M5 2,833]

You guys had fun while I was traveling. Listen to both the 12m and the L4 on a baffle in free field in the midrange frequencies and you will no longer think the L4 is special at all. In fact, I'd bet you don't like it. Comparing two installs or even the same install with different drivers in vehicles doesn't show anything but only exposes the install. We ALL know that the install is what really affects things. Your SQ comments are funny to me, some of us are ONLY SQ guys. Loud means jack shit to me, but you on the other hand are talking about using midbasses and 6.5's together in an install....obviously I realize we all make compromises but that one makes no sense.

[dkh 0]

You guys had fun while I was traveling. Listen to both the 12m and the L4 on a baffle in free field in the midrange frequencies and you will no longer think the L4 is special at all. In fact, I'd bet you don't like it. Comparing two installs or even the same install with different drivers in vehicles doesn't show anything but only exposes the install. We ALL know that the install is what really affects things. Your SQ comments are funny to me, some of us are ONLY SQ guys. Loud means jack shit to me, but you on the other hand are talking about using midbasses and 6.5's together in an install....obviously I realize we all make compromises but that one makes no sense.

Unfortunately, I have to say that I have back to back demo'd RW220 8" midbass speakers and L6 7.1" speakers and guess which one I have decided to stick with? Also, on a board (18mm Birch Ply) chamfered with the 12m vs L4s - yep I tried that one... Along with DLS Iridiums / Fostex 4" full range drivers etc etc. It wasn't very scientific but we did listen - various people using various drivers (which is why we had the various drivers). Unfortunately, all these people now use Hybrid L drivers why.... ???

Well, I use their drivers because I think they are the best drivers I can afford that I have heard and I have heard a few.

Of course, my personal opinion only.

[///M5 2,833]

You guys had fun while I was traveling. Listen to both the 12m and the L4 on a baffle in free field in the midrange frequencies and you will no longer think the L4 is special at all. In fact, I'd bet you don't like it. Comparing two installs or even the same install with different drivers in vehicles doesn't show anything but only exposes the install. We ALL know that the install is what really affects things. Your SQ comments are funny to me, some of us are ONLY SQ guys. Loud means jack shit to me, but you on the other hand are talking about using midbasses and 6.5's together in an install....obviously I realize we all make compromises but that one makes no sense.

Unfortunately, I have to say that I have back to back demo'd RW220 8" midbass speakers and L6 7.1" speakers and guess which one I have decided to stick with? Also, on a board (18mm Birch Ply) chamfered with the 12m vs L4s - yep I tried that one... Along with DLS Iridiums / Fostex 4" full range drivers etc etc. It wasn't very scientific but we did listen - various people using various drivers (which is why we had the various drivers). Unfortunately, all these people now use Hybrid L drivers why.... ???

Well, I use their drivers because I think they are the best drivers I can afford that I have heard and I have heard a few.

Of course, my personal opinion only.

And you obviously joined to troll considering the date so what is that opinion worth?

Opposite result on the midrange review IMO.

I also love the fact that you state "best you can afford" without the application. Pretty absurd.

[mjmarovi 8]

I understand there is no absolute when it comes to being the "best", but I don't understand why it such a big deal for someone to voice their opinion. I stated my opinion, give my recommendation, and my reasoning, you either you like it or you don't. For whatever reason several of you seem to dislike Hybrid. You are trying to make them sound bottom end which anyonoe the world knows they are not. You like somthing else better, fine, I personally IMO have yet to find it.

Say you want but people in SQ have been choosing Hybrid and continue to do so. There are plenty of great drivers out there, we all know this, and IDC if I like Hybrid because the pretty chrome job on the magnets, if that's what I like so be it.

FYI in a blind test, even Focal execs liked the Hybrid audio drivers over their own Utopias. Maybe you personally wouldn't feel the same way, but hey it is opinion.

Impious- for you telling me you have never even gotten a demo in a Hybrid vehicle, I don't know why you would even comment. Yes you did say Qts, not Q, my fault, but BL is certainly not the most important number to a midrange, and we all know that T/S parameters are not the best way to judge a speaker, but are good as a general comparison. It seems you have some bias against the company to claim something about a company you have never even heard, for that I am sorry as you are missing out.

You said you are trying out some new mids for a new build, hope they work out, and hope you post some build pics on here, and good luck with the build.

oh yes, btw I based the response curve of the 12m off the testing from the manufacturer, not zaph audio....I simply trust the manufacturer's posting over some random page you bring up.

Edited November 10, 2009 by mjmarovi

[abmoore 8]

If I could chime in real quick, don't mean to break the tension haha.

Do you guys think I will be able to hear the difference in them, especially considering I am by no means an SQ specialist nor am I going to compete.

So I was wondering if this sounds like a good idea. Should I just go with the cheaper speakers and focus on the install like a few of you said? And in that case, are the hybrids or scanspeaks a better deal. Also, I am guessing that the Seas RW220 was rejected kind of unanimously so what other suggestions for that?

[dkh 0]

You guys had fun while I was traveling. Listen to both the 12m and the L4 on a baffle in free field in the midrange frequencies and you will no longer think the L4 is special at all. In fact, I'd bet you don't like it. Comparing two installs or even the same install with different drivers in vehicles doesn't show anything but only exposes the install. We ALL know that the install is what really affects things. Your SQ comments are funny to me, some of us are ONLY SQ guys. Loud means jack shit to me, but you on the other hand are talking about using midbasses and 6.5's together in an install....obviously I realize we all make compromises but that one makes no sense.

Unfortunately, I have to say that I have back to back demo'd RW220 8" midbass speakers and L6 7.1" speakers and guess which one I have decided to stick with? Also, on a board (18mm Birch Ply) chamfered with the 12m vs L4s - yep I tried that one... Along with DLS Iridiums / Fostex 4" full range drivers etc etc. It wasn't very scientific but we did listen - various people using various drivers (which is why we had the various drivers). Unfortunately, all these people now use Hybrid L drivers why.... ???

Well, I use their drivers because I think they are the best drivers I can afford that I have heard and I have heard a few.

Of course, my personal opinion only.

And you obviously joined to troll considering the date so what is that opinion worth?

Opposite result on the midrange review IMO.

I also love the fact that you state "best you can afford" without the application. Pretty absurd.

I thought I would come on here and find out about my new FI IB3 sub - sharing my knowledge and information might actually be worth something to someone who open mindedly listens to a number of drivers and without thinking about name droping etc decides to go with a certain driver.

And, what has the date of which I joined this forum got anything to do with whether I have a valid opinion or not?

And, the best I can afford is my personal application of using a set of speakers, as absurd as it sounds, to please me without breaking my personal finances - how's that?

I would stick to giving either facts or your personal opinion rather than trying to belittle people actually posting their opinions.

What if I liked Polk speakers am I a retard? How about JBL? or come to think of it SEAS?

FYI - It doesn't take much for a keyboard warrior to gain a 15k post on any forum except maybe not having much else to do except spill garbage!

[abmoore 8]

Not to play the devil's advocate (not to say anyones the bad guy just to clarify haha).... but they are also sharing their own opinions.

[dkh 0]

Not to play the devil's advocate (not to say anyones the bad guy just to clarify haha).... but they are also sharing their own opinions.

I'm sorry to put this in your post but, to me, if someone expresses their opinion they state what they like and why they like not x/y is crap. I have no problems with someone saying they listened to something but didn't like because of stated reason - not this was reviewed by someone and came last so must be rubbish crap... music is already very subjective - and then we want to have the best in our car. If it was a+b = c life would be easy and there would be no arguments. From certain statements I have read so far, I would be surprised if some people use their time constructively and actually do installs in their cars. Theory and specs are only so good - trying them in the real world is the real proof.

[mjmarovi 8]

I love my pillars and my kick-panels, all custom built by me haha I completely agree with you dkh. I spent more time discussing and learning installation in my first years of car audio and then discovered all the different product.

back to OP: It probably is best just to stay under that budget, until you have a stronger idea of what you really like, or have more experience and have listened to many ultra-high-end systems, it probably isn't worth it to invest....maybe next time after this you will know whether or not it is worth it to you.

[Impious 1,476]

Impious- for you telling me you have never even gotten a demo in a Hybrid vehicle, I don't know why you would even comment.

Why wouldn't I? The comments I made, and claims you've made, have nothing to do with whether or not I have heard them.

but BL is certainly not the most important number to a midrange,

BL independently is a pretty worthless spec.....You brought it into the conversation, and actually ended up being wrong on the basis of the L4's motor strength compared to the 12m. And as I mentioned above, the "reason" you brought it into the conversation wasn't accurate either. So I guess the question is.....if we both agree it's not an important number, why did you bring it up as a supposed strong point in favor of the L4?

and we all know that T/S parameters are not the best way to judge a speaker, but are good as a general comparison.

They are useful when used as intended, but only if you understand what they are telling you and the intention of their use. Which I again question on your end.

It seems you have some bias against the company to claim something about a company you have never even heard, for that I am sorry as you are missing out.

Go back through my posts, and count the number of negative comments I made against Hybrid. The sole negative comment you can find was based directly on the mediocre objective results of the L3 as I indicated above. You can keep claiming I have some bias against the company if you wish, but it doesn't really make any sense if you actually read my posts. My posts have been directly questioning your comments and requested verification of your comments.....neither of which I received.

btw I based the response curve of the 12m off the testing from the manufacturer, not zaph audio....I simply trust the manufacturer's posting over some random page you bring up.

You apparently aren't very familiar with Zaph

Nor of the validity and usefulness of qualified third party independent measurements.

[Impious 1,476]

If I could chime in real quick, don't mean to break the tension haha.

Do you guys think I will be able to hear the difference in them, especially considering I am by no means an SQ specialist nor am I going to compete.

So I was wondering if this sounds like a good idea. Should I just go with the cheaper speakers and focus on the install like a few of you said? And in that case, are the hybrids or scanspeaks a better deal. Also, I am guessing that the Seas RW220 was rejected kind of unanimously so what other suggestions for that?

While I don't know the quality of your "ear" so to speak...i.e. I have no idea what you will and will not like...you can get some damn fine performing drivers for much less than either Hybrid or Scanspeak. You could complete your entire 3-way front stage for probably not a lot more than a single pair of L4's and much less than a pair of 12m's, and quite possibly would end up just as happy. I would especially suggest this route if this is your first foray into either an active setup or into the finer side of sound quality. No need to break the bank on a "first" setup that's going to take a lot of learning to get right anyways. Once you get more skilled in the art you could decide if stepping up into more expensive drivers is worth the plunge (which it may not be....as I said, a lot of reasonably priced drivers really do perform quite well).

If you want to look for some sites that list driver results, you can start here;

http://www.zaphaudio.com

http://www.audioheuristics.org/

http://www.diymobile...s-driver-specs/

All of them provide measurements on tested drivers along with some commentary to help you figure out what you're looking at. Should help point you in the direction of which affordable drivers also perform well.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, you could use some of that saved speaker money on a different processor. The W505 will control the H701, and depending on install locations you would likely benefit from the H701's time alignment and adjustable slopes (neither of which I believe the Audiocontrol offers). Used H701's can be had for a decent price.

[mjmarovi 8]

BTW: Name what hybrid vehicle any of you have sat in and demoed. Name them, please, I would love to know.

None.

I use that for my basis of you not listening to Hybrid....

You brought up BL....not me, I mentioned a larger magnet, nothing about BL, and said it is used for greater cone control while keeping a very low moving mass. you keep trying to say everything I say is wrong, and have a comment for everything, yet your only comment is that you think I am wrong and you disagree. Anyone that reads this forum can clearly see you have something against Hybrid, and for whatever reason against me.

and yet (I don't know who you are and don't like to assume) but I really don't know what your credibility as far as knowledge on this matter, someone that wants to comment and seems to have so much to say on the matter of SQ and evidently is in the loop in the current SQ world, for not even have every heard a Hybrid Driver amazes me. Not saying they are the be all end all, but damn, whether you like it or not they are the front-running company in sound quality right now and that's not just opinion, that is consumer/competitor choice. so maybe, just maybe you should try getting a demo and doing comparisons of your own as opposed to trying to just go by numbers.

I originally brought up params because the L4 in detail from a research only standpoint is quite amazing.

[mjmarovi 8]

oh BTW thanks for those links, some interesting stuff there.

[Impious 1,476]

You brought up BL....not me, I mentioned a larger magnet, nothing about BL, and said it is used for greater cone control while keeping a very low moving mass.

Well, then I guess your comment was even more meaningless than I originally thought if you were talking simply about the physical size of the magnet. I guess I interpretted your comment to mean motor strength rather than physical dimensions.

you keep trying to say everything I say is wrong, and have a comment for everything, yet your only comment is that you think I am wrong and you disagree.

That's only because you haven't said much that was right

and yet (I don't know who you are and don't like to assume) but I really don't know what your credibility as far as knowledge on this matter, someone that wants to comment and seems to have so much to say on the matter of SQ and evidently is in the loop in the current SQ world, for not even have every heard a Hybrid Driver amazes me. so maybe, just maybe you should try getting a demo and doing comparisons of your own

Is there some magic speaker genie who I can summon to allow this? Because otherwise, chances are good I will not hear a pair anytime in the short term or reasonable long term future. Why? Because 1) I have no need for a 4" driver, so I am not going to waste (yes, waste) $300 on a pair of drivers I literally have no use for simply so I can say I've heard them and 2) I live in a geographical car audio void absent of any meaningful audio "community".

If, however, you wanted to send me your L4's for a demo I would gladly give them a listen.

as opposed to trying to just go by numbers.

There's much more useful information contained in a quality objective overview of a driver than there is in a subjective evaluation (especially one conducted in something as uncontrolled as one particular vehicle installation)......if you understand the numbers and what they are telling you. There is a reason every driver on the market goes through a variety and multitude of modeling and measurements before a single person listens to them. Subjective "listening" isn't that useful for driver evaluation unless you are seeking one individuals opinion of them in the particular scenario in which they were demoed.

I originally brought up params because the L4 in detail from a research only standpoint is quite amazing.

In what way are the T/S parameters amazing? I don't know if I've ever seen the word "amazing" used to describe T/S parameters before....

[///M5 2,833]

I understand there is no absolute when it comes to being the "best", but I don't understand why it such a big deal for someone to voice their opinion. I stated my opinion, give my recommendation, and my reasoning, you either you like it or you don't. For whatever reason several of you seem to dislike Hybrid. You are trying to make them sound bottom end which anyonoe the world knows they are not. You like somthing else better, fine, I personally IMO have yet to find it.

It isn't a big deal. Your opinion is more pointed than any comment I have made in this thread yet...but you exude a severe lack of background understanding in many of your posts which doesn't help your credibility. A little of your own kool-aid would be a good start and that can be done rather easily by buying a few different drivers and listening to them in as ideal of a condition as possible.

You guys had fun while I was traveling. Listen to both the 12m and the L4 on a baffle in free field in the midrange frequencies and you will no longer think the L4 is special at all. In fact, I'd bet you don't like it. Comparing two installs or even the same install with different drivers in vehicles doesn't show anything but only exposes the install. We ALL know that the install is what really affects things. Your SQ comments are funny to me, some of us are ONLY SQ guys. Loud means jack shit to me, but you on the other hand are talking about using midbasses and 6.5's together in an install....obviously I realize we all make compromises but that one makes no sense.

Unfortunately, I have to say that I have back to back demo'd RW220 8" midbass speakers and L6 7.1" speakers and guess which one I have decided to stick with? Also, on a board (18mm Birch Ply) chamfered with the 12m vs L4s - yep I tried that one... Along with DLS Iridiums / Fostex 4" full range drivers etc etc. It wasn't very scientific but we did listen - various people using various drivers (which is why we had the various drivers). Unfortunately, all these people now use Hybrid L drivers why.... ???

Well, I use their drivers because I think they are the best drivers I can afford that I have heard and I have heard a few.

Of course, my personal opinion only.

And you obviously joined to troll considering the date so what is that opinion worth?

Opposite result on the midrange review IMO.

I also love the fact that you state "best you can afford" without the application. Pretty absurd.

I thought I would come on here and find out about my new FI IB3 sub - sharing my knowledge and information might actually be worth something to someone who open mindedly listens to a number of drivers and without thinking about name droping etc decides to go with a certain driver.

And, what has the date of which I joined this forum got anything to do with whether I have a valid opinion or not?

And, the best I can afford is my personal application of using a set of speakers, as absurd as it sounds, to please me without breaking my personal finances - how's that?

I would stick to giving either facts or your personal opinion rather than trying to belittle people actually posting their opinions.

What if I liked Polk speakers am I a retard? How about JBL? or come to think of it SEAS?

FYI - It doesn't take much for a keyboard warrior to gain a 15k post on any forum except maybe not having much else to do except spill garbage!

IF you joined only to comment here then of course your opinion is influenced for that purpose. I apologize that I made the assumption that this was your goal, but to hop in a heated discussion in the middle of a thread as your 2nd post screams troll. If you are not, then I doubly apologize. If you are then nice comeback lol.

As for the absurd comment, it is rather obvious. At that price point you better be spending a lot more on things other than drivers. Single drivers that cost that much aren't at a "price point" but instead fill an install niche.

[///M5 2,833]

If I could chime in real quick, don't mean to break the tension haha.

Do you guys think I will be able to hear the difference in them, especially considering I am by no means an SQ specialist nor am I going to compete.

So I was wondering if this sounds like a good idea. Should I just go with the cheaper speakers and focus on the install like a few of you said? And in that case, are the hybrids or scanspeaks a better deal. Also, I am guessing that the Seas RW220 was rejected kind of unanimously so what other suggestions for that?

YES!

The real question then is what size. There are some budget 4"ers that IMO are better than the L4 as well, but if you aren't needing a 4 that is not worthwhile info to post here.

[abmoore 8]

If I could chime in real quick, don't mean to break the tension haha.

Do you guys think I will be able to hear the difference in them, especially considering I am by no means an SQ specialist nor am I going to compete.

So I was wondering if this sounds like a good idea. Should I just go with the cheaper speakers and focus on the install like a few of you said? And in that case, are the hybrids or scanspeaks a better deal. Also, I am guessing that the Seas RW220 was rejected kind of unanimously so what other suggestions for that?

YES!

The real question then is what size. There are some budget 4"ers that IMO are better than the L4 as well, but if you aren't needing a 4 that is not worthwhile info to post here.

So I have been looking around some more. How do you feel about the Usher 8137A 8", Vifa NE123W-04 4" or Tang Band W4-1720 4", and the Dayton RS28A-4 1 1/8".

The prices are much lower than I expected just wondering how you think these would sound or if anyone has any experience with these.

Thanks.

[///M5 2,833]

If I could chime in real quick, don't mean to break the tension haha.

Do you guys think I will be able to hear the difference in them, especially considering I am by no means an SQ specialist nor am I going to compete.

So I was wondering if this sounds like a good idea. Should I just go with the cheaper speakers and focus on the install like a few of you said? And in that case, are the hybrids or scanspeaks a better deal. Also, I am guessing that the Seas RW220 was rejected kind of unanimously so what other suggestions for that?

YES!

The real question then is what size. There are some budget 4"ers that IMO are better than the L4 as well, but if you aren't needing a 4 that is not worthwhile info to post here.

So I have been looking around some more. How do you feel about the Usher 8137A 8", Vifa NE123W-04 4" or Tang Band W4-1720 4", and the Dayton RS28A-4 1 1/8".

The prices are much lower than I expected just wondering how you think these would sound or if anyone has any experience with these.

Thanks.

Those wouldn't be a good match together. Considering this has derailed a bit, before thinking about drivers I'd like an update on processing, mounting locations and such.

[abmoore 8]

If I could chime in real quick, don't mean to break the tension haha.

Do you guys think I will be able to hear the difference in them, especially considering I am by no means an SQ specialist nor am I going to compete.

So I was wondering if this sounds like a good idea. Should I just go with the cheaper speakers and focus on the install like a few of you said? And in that case, are the hybrids or scanspeaks a better deal. Also, I am guessing that the Seas RW220 was rejected kind of unanimously so what other suggestions for that?

YES!

The real question then is what size. There are some budget 4"ers that IMO are better than the L4 as well, but if you aren't needing a 4 that is not worthwhile info to post here.

So I have been looking around some more. How do you feel about the Usher 8137A 8", Vifa NE123W-04 4" or Tang Band W4-1720 4", and the Dayton RS28A-4 1 1/8".

The prices are much lower than I expected just wondering how you think these would sound or if anyone has any experience with these.

Thanks.

Those wouldn't be a good match together. Considering this has derailed a bit, before thinking about drivers I'd like an update on processing, mounting locations and such.

Preferably, I would like to stay away from kick panels unless I have to use them. I also use this as a work truck and unless you think it would work mounted a little higher than normal kicks I don't think it will work. Someone mentioned earlier they had seen mids and tweeters mounted in the dash that worked well (by the way, where in the dash would they work best?), but I would like using the A-pillars if you think that could cut it. I just don't see the speakers getting very close due to the width of the car.

Is the DQXS not a good match for this system? I kind of wanted to use it considering I will have 3 to 4 amps, but if you think the h-701 will be better I will consider it.

[Impious 1,476]

If you are not using an install that has close to equal pathlengths between you and both the left and right midrange and midbass drivers.....you will want, scratch that, need time alignment. And if you are going active, adjustable slopes are extremely useful. I don't believe the DQXS offers either of those features.

[mjmarovi 8]

h-701 is an outstanding processor that has been widely used by many SQ competitors.the DQXS is great too, but I personally like the 701's features and abilities, plus the rux controller is pretty sweet if you are going with that processor, you will be able to build one helluva 3-way active system. I think in your case a 3-way active sounds like it will be best. dynamat and build a nice strong baffle for the mid-bass in the doors. mount mids in the dash, up closer to the windshield, not closer to you, and closer to the sides, ~5-6 inches from left pillar, and right speakers about same from right pillar. the sorry to be more specific, ~8 inches from center of mid to pillar, doesn't have to be exact, just giving you an idea. then tweeters facing each other on the lower end of the pillars. this will make for quite a nice stage.

again, the tuning and install job will be the determining factor. I would recommend some midranges that will play as low as possible, such as sub 200 hz so that all vocals will be staged from the dash rather than the doors. mid-bass ~50-60hz up to ~150 is OK for the doors. that is my recommendation, and what I would personally do in your situation.

now for drivers, well I already recommended my personal favorite, but obviously there are tons of choices. here's some of my fav. companies...

hybrid audio

morel

focal (love the k2 or k3 mids, not the tweets and mid-bass are just OK) mids are awesome though

eton

DLS

dynaudio

scanspeak

zapco

rainbow

genesis (had to edit can't believe i forgot genesis, IMO probably the best SQ amp on the market today as well)

there are many more, but that's what is at the top of my head right now.

Edited November 13, 2009 by mjmarovi

[///M5 2,833]

h-701 is an outstanding processor that has been widely used by many SQ competitors.the DQXS is great too, but I personally like the 701's features and abilities, plus the rux controller is pretty sweet if you are going with that processor, you will be able to build one helluva 3-way active system. I think in your case a 3-way active sounds like it will be best. dynamat and build a nice strong baffle for the mid-bass in the doors

He has a W505 and therefore doesn't need the controller. The 505 is a way better controller than the rux anyways.

I'd also highly recommend not using dynamat but instead shopping for deadener products here:

http://sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi

I won't comment on the speaker locations until I know what car you have. Perhaps I missed it/forget it through the thread, but every car is different and a compromise. What do you feel you are able to do?

[abmoore 8]

h-701 is an outstanding processor that has been widely used by many SQ competitors.the DQXS is great too, but I personally like the 701's features and abilities, plus the rux controller is pretty sweet if you are going with that processor, you will be able to build one helluva 3-way active system. I think in your case a 3-way active sounds like it will be best. dynamat and build a nice strong baffle for the mid-bass in the doors

He has a W505 and therefore doesn't need the controller. The 505 is a way better controller than the rux anyways.

I'd also highly recommend not using dynamat but instead shopping for deadener products here:

http://sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi

I won't comment on the speaker locations until I know what car you have. Perhaps I missed it/forget it through the thread, but every car is different and a compromise. What do you feel you are able to do?

I have a 2004 tahoe, probably should add that to my sig. So you don't recommend the h-701, do you think the dqxs is needed or should I get the alpine imprint system with the mic.

I liked mjmorovi's set up, that was what I was hoping I could do since the kicks do not seem like they would work for me. Do you have any other suggestions of something that would work better. And if I put the mids in the dash, how far back. It is pretty deep, I would say almost 28-30 inches. I will have to measure that though.

For the tweets, there are existing mounting positions from the stock tweets that are about the position that was suggested for me to use. Althogh,they do point forward towards the windshield about 30 degrees and slightly upwards.

[jcarter1885 995]

h-701 is an outstanding processor that has been widely used by many SQ competitors.the DQXS is great too, but I personally like the 701's features and abilities, plus the rux controller is pretty sweet if you are going with that processor, you will be able to build one helluva 3-way active system. I think in your case a 3-way active sounds like it will be best. dynamat and build a nice strong baffle for the mid-bass in the doors

He has a W505 and therefore doesn't need the controller. The 505 is a way better controller than the rux anyways.

I'd also highly recommend not using dynamat but instead shopping for deadener products here:

http://sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi

I won't comment on the speaker locations until I know what car you have. Perhaps I missed it/forget it through the thread, but every car is different and a compromise. What do you feel you are able to do?

I have a 2004 tahoe, probably should add that to my sig. So you don't recommend the h-701, do you think the dqxs is needed or should I get the alpine imprint system with the mic.

I liked mjmorovi's set up, that was what I was hoping I could do since the kicks do not seem like they would work for me. Do you have any other suggestions of something that would work better. And if I put the mids in the dash, how far back. It is pretty deep, I would say almost 28-30 inches. I will have to measure that though.

For the tweets, there are existing mounting positions from the stock tweets that are about the position that was suggested for me to use. Althogh,they do point forward towards the windshield about 30 degrees and slightly upwards.

Pictures of what your talking about would help us help you better.