SQ Three Way Front Stage

[///M5 2,833]

Kind Of Off Topic And A Bit Of Thread Hijacking, But, Just What Exactly Did Happen To HAT While I Was Gone?

I Also See Some Opinions And Views On Their Products Have Changed...

SO SORRY IN ADVANCE FOR THE THREADJACK...

I have absolutely no idea. Seriously, I don't.

Back between 12/22/2007 and 6/15/2008, SSA was vying to become HAT's sole on-line retailer. We communicated back and forth several times about terms of this agreement, including a stocking opening order, pricing, and etc. The SSA admin stated "we want to be the #1 Hybrid Internet dealer as we are with a number of other non-mainstream brands...in addition, as we try to expand our competition team, Hybrid would be the mid and tweet of choice..." On 6/15/2008, I replied with the revised 2008 internet dealer terms and got no further response. In regards to becoming a dealer, there has been no communication since then (as far as I can tell with my Outlook files).

Late in 2008, there was some sort of a falling out with a few of the Team SSA guys (competitors). These guys came over to Team Hybrids. I sent a PM expressing my concern to the admins of this site, and the hope for a continued relationship. I wrote: “Sorry to hear about the team SSA guys disbanding...it wasn't my intent to "steal" competitors away.” The admin responded that they were all cool with HAT, but were just upset with these three guys only (as noted in a bit of sarcasm). I'm not much for soap operas, and assumed that things were fine between HAT and SSA.

Concurrently in this same time frame, we had an official Hybrid Audio Technologies forum here to answer questions about the product. The bulletin board went live on 01/25/2008. One day in March 2009 the forum was gone. On 03/22/2009, I sent an e-mail to the administration why the board was gone (expecting to hear that there was a hack, or a BB malfunction). The same day, the SSA admin replied “I will get back to you shortly on this, I have just been slammed this weekend just don't want you to think I am ignoring you.” Weeks passed. I queried again, and again. No reply, and no new future correspondence. It became clear that the forum had been deleted. To this day, I still have no idea why.

Fast forward a few months to mid-2009. Apparently one of these competitors that left SSA did something completely dumbass (not at my guidance and without my knowledge) and signed back up here and began answering HAT questions. Not cool. It was clear we weren't welcomed here anymore, and in fact, the three competitors that left SSA and joined Team Hybrids were all BANNED from this site. Pretty clear statement if you ask me. It was childish to come back here and sign back up. But it was also childish to BAN them in the first place for doing nothing more than changing competition teams (well, that's my opinion anyway).

Now, within the past week, I have gotten three complaints from customers from this site, indicating that there's a fair bit of bad-mouthing going on from SSA administration and one key member. If we couldn't come to an agreement on the terms of SSA becoming an internet retailer, and the amicable move of three competitors away from SSA to Team Hybrids, then I am sorry. I will grant you that the move by one former Team SSA member to sign back up and answer questions was undoubtedly STUPID (I just found out about this last week, when I was discussing the recent trend on this forum – he apologized to me for apparently being the catalyst for the recent childish behavior on this forum). Nonetheless, the onus of the problem falls squarely within the confines of this forum.

As someone suggested, I don’t send people to this forum to defend HAT products. I don’t need to, and don’t desire to. Don't give yourselves too much credit. This fella dkh came on his own free-will and was one of the three that alerted me to the turn-coat bashing of HAT products here.

You must agree that this has been handled POORLY from the get-go. Not telling me why the forum was deleted was in very bad taste, and now the product bashing...I don't know what to think. Sixteen months ago, HAT was the brand of choice for SSA, and you guys were falling over yourselves to represent it, and now suddenly it isn't as good as $30.00/pair midranges? Seriously? Since the unexplained demise of the relationship with SSA, and the deletion of my forum, have you seen me bash the SSA product? No. Have I not recommended it? No. Do I say stupid things like “the SSA sub is not as good as the Parts Express subwoofer for $30?” You know its better, and I know its better. What's gong on here is in VERY POOR TASTE.

I implore you to leave this post in tact, and not delete it or modify it, and not ban me, because it’s all the God’s-honest truth. If you have an axe to grind, BE A MAN and talk to me about it personally. I can be reached at 770.888.8200. I'll await your phone call.

Scott

Just as a clarification. I am the member that the three people complained about. Never once did I say your products were bad or even bad mouth them, just their value and that in the price range you ask for your drivers I would buy something else. Amusingly no one ever asked if I even liked them, they just got made when I stated that the OP of the threads in question should use their budget differently.

I'd also like to clarify that I am not privy to the exchange that occurred between SSA and the members that moved to Team Hybrid and personally don't care to be. It wasn't between me and while I am still here that doesn't mean I automatically take sides.

This is really funny that you come on and post as again it was some misinformed noobs pushing your product in an application where it doesn't really fit. That I have an issue with and always will. A quick read of the topics will make this readily obvious to you. It will also show you that the people that were promoting them have very little background and knowledge but are good at regurgitating pieces of conversations that they have read, but obviously not understood.

Your reaction is perhaps logical considering the source, but I will tell you for sure that you, your company, nor your products had anything to do with the reaction. It would have been the same had they said they were going to use some Accuton mids, Seas Lotus midbasses and AirCirc tweets. If their whole budget is consumed by the drivers, they are unable to do real installation themselves, and leave no budget for integrating those drivers it would be stupid to buy them. Instead then, yes a $30 driver in a great installation would be a better choice. Hell one of the three members that joined you (and the one who did the install) will be glad to really outline that and I know you'd agree as well.

Nice of you to come on and plop your phone number down, but it was unnecessary in this case.

No beef with your drivers at all, just weren't right for the application.

P.S. I quoted your post to doubly prove that no one will remove it, that sort of thing doesn't happen here. If it did, I'd leave. Overmoderation can stay at ICIX and DIYMA.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Kind Of Off Topic And A Bit Of Thread Hijacking, But, Just What Exactly Did Happen To HAT While I Was Gone?

I Also See Some Opinions And Views On Their Products Have Changed...

SO SORRY IN ADVANCE FOR THE THREADJACK...

I have absolutely no idea. Seriously, I don't.

Back between 12/22/2007 and 6/15/2008, SSA was vying to become HAT's sole on-line retailer. We communicated back and forth several times about terms of this agreement, including a stocking opening order, pricing, and etc. The SSA admin stated "we want to be the #1 Hybrid Internet dealer as we are with a number of other non-mainstream brands...in addition, as we try to expand our competition team, Hybrid would be the mid and tweet of choice..." On 6/15/2008, I replied with the revised 2008 internet dealer terms and got no further response. In regards to becoming a dealer, there has been no communication since then (as far as I can tell with my Outlook files).

Late in 2008, there was some sort of a falling out with a few of the Team SSA guys (competitors). These guys came over to Team Hybrids. I sent a PM expressing my concern to the admins of this site, and the hope for a continued relationship. I wrote: “Sorry to hear about the team SSA guys disbanding...it wasn't my intent to "steal" competitors away.” The admin responded that they were all cool with HAT, but were just upset with these three guys only (as noted in a bit of sarcasm). I'm not much for soap operas, and assumed that things were fine between HAT and SSA.

Concurrently in this same time frame, we had an official Hybrid Audio Technologies forum here to answer questions about the product. The bulletin board went live on 01/25/2008. One day in March 2009 the forum was gone. On 03/22/2009, I sent an e-mail to the administration why the board was gone (expecting to hear that there was a hack, or a BB malfunction). The same day, the SSA admin replied “I will get back to you shortly on this, I have just been slammed this weekend just don't want you to think I am ignoring you.” Weeks passed. I queried again, and again. No reply, and no new future correspondence. It became clear that the forum had been deleted. To this day, I still have no idea why.

Fast forward a few months to mid-2009. Apparently one of these competitors that left SSA did something completely dumbass (not at my guidance and without my knowledge) and signed back up here and began answering HAT questions. Not cool. It was clear we weren't welcomed here anymore, and in fact, the three competitors that left SSA and joined Team Hybrids were all BANNED from this site. Pretty clear statement if you ask me. It was childish to come back here and sign back up. But it was also childish to BAN them in the first place for doing nothing more than changing competition teams (well, that's my opinion anyway).

Now, within the past week, I have gotten three complaints from customers from this site, indicating that there's a fair bit of bad-mouthing going on from SSA administration and one key member. If we couldn't come to an agreement on the terms of SSA becoming an internet retailer, and the amicable move of three competitors away from SSA to Team Hybrids, then I am sorry. I will grant you that the move by one former Team SSA member to sign back up and answer questions was undoubtedly STUPID (I just found out about this last week, when I was discussing the recent trend on this forum – he apologized to me for apparently being the catalyst for the recent childish behavior on this forum). Nonetheless, the onus of the problem falls squarely within the confines of this forum.

As someone suggested, I don’t send people to this forum to defend HAT products. I don’t need to, and don’t desire to. Don't give yourselves too much credit. This fella dkh came on his own free-will and was one of the three that alerted me to the turn-coat bashing of HAT products here.

You must agree that this has been handled POORLY from the get-go. Not telling me why the forum was deleted was in very bad taste, and now the product bashing...I don't know what to think. Sixteen months ago, HAT was the brand of choice for SSA, and you guys were falling over yourselves to represent it, and now suddenly it isn't as good as $30.00/pair midranges? Seriously? Since the unexplained demise of the relationship with SSA, and the deletion of my forum, have you seen me bash the SSA product? No. Have I not recommended it? No. Do I say stupid things like “the SSA sub is not as good as the Parts Express subwoofer for $30?” You know its better, and I know its better. What's gong on here is in VERY POOR TASTE.

I implore you to leave this post in tact, and not delete it or modify it, and not ban me, because it’s all the God’s-honest truth. If you have an axe to grind, BE A MAN and talk to me about it personally. I can be reached at 770.888.8200. I'll await your phone call.

Scott

Scott, as it is clear you were only told part of the story, you are misunderstanding a few things. We stopped contact after that "marketing stunt", as we did not want to be working with a company that carried out business like that. It is the exact same way a few very questionable internet companies built up their hype and sales across the net, and that is something not allowed here. I was under the impression you were well aware of what had happened and the reason for removal of the forum section was quite clear due to said marketing stunt, but after your post, it shows you were not.

As for "mid and tweeter of choice or brand of choice", that is another mix up. That was meant to be solely in reference to "TeamSSA" ONLY, as at the time one member was using them. As in terms of people who would be joining the team, or was on the team that were looking for mid's and high's would be given the suggestion. Not forum members blindly. There is no sub woofer, amplifier, mid, or tweet of choice for the SSA forum (different entity). If you notice, this is the one forum that actually strives to find out what is best for the goals/budget/needs/budget of the particular install. Sure there are some SSA speaker (another different entity) fans on here, but in no way are our drivers the driver of choice the the mass majority of people (and we know that), hence the reason there are multiple other companies that build sub woofers that are hosted on here with a company forum. If someone suggests one of our drivers when it is not appropriate, our more experienced members make sure that the suggestion is not taken to heart, and try to get the topic back on track.

In terms of the "falling out", this cannot seem to die, but it keeps coming back. When so-called friends promise epic results in terms of exposure, brand recognition and sales from sponsorship of our drivers, and quite the opposite happens (or should I say, nothing happened to benefit the brand or the website), we did not have to think twice. When it is clear from the get go, SSA (the speaker brand) is a very small fish in a very big pond, one of very limited finances, one of whom the two owners are just a hair above working for free, the amount of sponsorship capabilities are quite limited. I can admit, Mark flat out did not want to do provide sponsorship from the get go, and in retrospect, I most certainly should have listened to him. At a point when we were making just enough to keep the website online and pay for gas to fuel Mark's truck to go to and from shows, SSA the brand, provided drivers, entry fee's (total stupid move on my part, due to a threat of non-attendance by said competitor if entry fee money was not sent), a professional dedicated website for the team, schwag and steady internet exposure. It was a monetarily risky move as that was really past the realistic extent of SSA the brand's limits as it was. Now, one of the team members, who was provided drivers and would not have been on the team if my judgment was not clouded by the "friend" tag (whom also pulled the marketing stunt later on), was expecting/demanding much more from SSA the brand then we could ever provide or ever said or implied we could provide, had the audacity 2 days after the competition we provided entry fee's for, to tell us they were disbanding the team. Their primary reason is that we did not pay them enough attention, and that SSA the website and the SSA the brand would not be where it was with out their accomplishments. Which is both quite comical and an incredible slap in the face at the same time. Comical in the respect that their accomplishments had zero, and I repeat zero effect on sales, exposure, and traffic, zero. Pretty poor ROI if you ask me. Slap in the face because not only do competitors not have the place or the position to tell the sponsoring company they are disbanding the team, and nor do you do that to a so-called friend. That was the purely the last straw for me, needless to say Mark too. All contact stopped, and rightfully so.

Now after said competitors had switched to another sub woofer for competitions following the above mentioned competition, only to come on a post up pictures on this forum, giving the middle finger to SSA, I don't think it is hard to say that was more then enough reason for permanent removal of membership from this site. Now keep in mind, the marketing stunt happened after this occurrence. So it is quite clear, SSA the brand and SSA the forum did not act childish or poorly in any way. We may have acted too meagerly if anything. Anyone else with a pulse and some logical reasoning about business practices would have done the same thing. Keep in mind, that during said competition and the reason I did not call to pat people on the back, was due to I was busy tearing down asbestos shingles from the in-law's house in the 90+ degree weather, instead of going to above mentioned competition. I could not attend because SSA the brand could not afford to send me, but we provided for others to attend. It does not take much to see there is something wildly wrong with that. But, the team members at the time felt they were in the position to tell SSA the brand, that they were disbanding the team. Unreal.

So Scott, it has nothing to do with switching teams at all, and now we see it really had nothing much to do with you either, it had to do with actions of a few others while being apart of and after being apart of TeamSSAudio. A note to you and all others reading this, because of the above events and actions, there are and will not be any sponsorships provided by SSA for a very long time, if ever. Also, in regards to my PM reply about being cool with HAT, it was obviously before the "marketing stunt".

On the subject of product choice, I think Sean did a great job at explaining. Something else that was a misunderstanding or mix up, as I said above there is no one brand/driver or amp etc. of choice here at SSA, this forum functions in terms of there is only the best for the needs and goals of the install. And surely a cheap $30 sub woofer from Parts Express would be a better choice then a $300+ SSA sub woofer, if the installation is poor, or the needs or goals fit it better. I believe someone mentioned above something along the lines of: 'it does not matter how good the product is, if the install is not good it makes no difference'. As Sean said, it is in no way bashing HAT products, it is keeping to the focus of what is best for the install, something that is alien to many. The relentless pushing of HAT products by one member does not help this current situation, but it is different from the whole purpose of the topic, and that is finding what is best for the install. One thing that people have a hard time dealing with on this site is to make an effort to accurately provide quality information first when asking for help, long before other members begin suggesting which products to use, (to suggest with out knowing much is counter intuitive and does not help the person asking for help) as I know you are well aware of that.

Now that you have heard most of both sides of the story, you can see there is no axe to grind or need to be a man and call, as things with the past team members was taken care of a while ago, and there is no bashing of HAT products. The irony of that is shortly after the removal of membership for the prior TeamSSaudio members, one of their close friends (and a super moderator on here at the time) was upset that his friends were banned, so he began to try to get members to leave this forum. He was banned for his detrimental actions, and since then, has been hiding behind his mod-status on another major audio forum doing his damnedest to bash and flame SSA the brand, SSA the company, and SSA the forum, THAT is childish and in poor taste.

Scott, sorry it came to this, sorry HAT missed out on the exposure of being on the SSA forum, sorry you misunderstood our position and the true situation here at SSA, and sorry for all my run-on's.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

As this topic has gone way off the rails. Original poster, please start a new one with the information about your install from this one.

[Impious 1,476]

You must agree that this has been handled POORLY from the get-go. Not telling me why the forum was deleted was in very bad taste, and now the product bashing...I don't know what to think. Sixteen months ago, HAT was the brand of choice for SSA, and you guys were falling over yourselves to represent it, and now suddenly it isn't as good as $30.00/pair midranges? Seriously? Since the unexplained demise of the relationship with SSA, and the deletion of my forum, have you seen me bash the SSA product? No. Have I not recommended it? No. Do I say stupid things like “the SSA sub is not as good as the Parts Express subwoofer for $30?” You know its better, and I know its better. What's gong on here is in VERY POOR TASTE.

FYI, so people don't believe the above nonsense that my comment was mindless HAT bashing....the review is here;

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-product-reviews/2974-legatia-3-vs-trius-3-a.html

And they were $30 each, not $30/pair.