Frying alternator...overload or not

[Hanapi 8]

Howdy,

I need some help here.

I have two FI 15 BTL subs. Double voice coil,heat ring,etc,etc all options on the sub and built for daily playing.

I have two brutus 2600's run by a controller. the amps or subs are not wired together.

I also have installed besides the two 850 cranking amp ford battereis, two Kinetik 3800 watt batteries.

The altrnator is (was) a 250Amp altenator built by Excessive amperage.

After a week to 10 days the alternator gave out. I mean fried.

I never ran the system at full power because I am still breaking in the subs.

What could have caused the alternator to fry?? or was it just a bad alternator??

Altogether the system at full power is +/- 10400 watts. If I add my batteries together I get 28000 watts so I have more then double what would actually be needed.

Anyone with a big system have any advise???

Many thankis appreciate it.

JR

[patented17 21]

I highly doubt you have 28,000 watts. My Excessive amperage alternator, did fine with me and lasted until my car got wrecked. The subs, aren't connected and you some how fired the alternator.

[mbarber25 29]

i doubt you're amps are even putting out even 6,000 watts. even if that.

so i doubt too much power is what did your alternator in

where'd u get these numbers from? (the 10,400 watts and 28,000 watts)

Edited December 4, 2009 by mbarber25

[SpeakerBoy 64]

Howdy,

I need some help here.

I have two FI 15 BTL subs. Double voice coil,heat ring,etc,etc all options on the sub and built for daily playing.

I have two brutus 2600's run by a controller. the amps or subs are not wired together.

I also have installed besides the two 850 cranking amp ford battereis, two Kinetik 3800 watt batteries.

The altrnator is (was) a 250Amp altenator built by Excessive amperage.

After a week to 10 days the alternator gave out. I mean fried.

I never ran the system at full power because I am still breaking in the subs.

What could have caused the alternator to fry?? or was it just a bad alternator??

Altogether the system at full power is +/- 10400 watts. If I add my batteries together I get 28000 watts so I have more then double what would actually be needed.

Anyone with a big system have any advise???

Many thankis appreciate it.

JR

He you implying that batteries by themselves send musical power to the subs?

[lithium 358]

im just goin to ignore your math for a minute and ask about your install. what does your electrical look like? big three? did you have dimming?

next question, assuming no problems above, would be if the alt was installed correctly?(aka pulley and that shit)

[Hanapi 8]

i doubt you're amps are even putting out even 6,000 watts. even if that.

so i doubt too much power is what did your alternator in

where'd u get these numbers from? (the 10,400 watts and 28,000 watts)

This is how I got my numbers.

Two 2600 RMS amps = RMS/ 0.707 = Peak

in this case 2600/0.707 = 3,677 watts x 2= 7,355 total watts peak. Sorry not 10400.

the 28000 watts is what the batteries are supposed to have together. two kinetik 3800 watts = 7600 watts plus the two 850 amp ford batteries is 850 x 12v =10200 x 2 =20400 watts. total 28000 watts.

I just want to know if I got a bad alt or if there is something else that I am doing wrong.

I have no problem with a bad Alt...it happens...most impoprtant is to know what happened.

thanks and have a good weekend,

JR

Edited December 4, 2009 by Hanapi

[bassahaulic 155]

Well I mean, What kind of alt would like to charge 2 3800's daily? Especially when they are not being drained much.

And to the OP, your battery has NOTHING to do with watts. Batteries deal with amps. Do some research and maybe you could answer you own question as to why the alt fried.

And idk where you got all this math from? Makes no real sense at all.

[Hanapi 8]

im just goin to ignore your math for a minute and ask about your install. what does your electrical look like? big three? did you have dimming?

next question, assuming no problems above, would be if the alt was installed correctly?(aka pulley and that shit)

Ok great..did make a mistake in the math.

The way the batteries are hooked is as follows. Underneath the van there are two FORD OEM 850 dry crancking amp batteries.I ran a cable up into the rear of the van right next to where the other batteries are, maybe a foot and a half away from them, I installed two Kinetik 3800 watt batteries in parallel with the first two. From the two kinetik I have zero guage running to the Amps.One amp connected to one Kinetik.

When everything was running I had No diming.

The system did not warn me of anything. It was all running great untill the alt just quit.

There is one thing that the mechanic did change. He replaced the smaller pulley back to the stock one other wise the belt (which is not in stock on the Island) would be too large.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Hanapi

[Hanapi 8]

Well I mean, What kind of alt would like to charge 2 3800's daily? Especially when they are not being drained much.

And to the OP, your battery has NOTHING to do with watts. Batteries deal with amps. Do some research and maybe you could answer you own question as to why the alt fried.

And idk where you got all this math from? Makes no real sense at all.

REALLY???

so Volts(V) x current(I or amps) does not give watts? hmmmm I'm really at a loss now.

As for the alt having to charge a not drained battery pack, I guess then it would not have to work so hard huh?! Wonder what the regulator in the Alt does then.

Yah...I've done some research.

Thanks for your help. Have a good weekend.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Hanapi

[jcarter1885 995]

Your system is putting out no where near that wattage, it only puts out the wattage the amps can produce. The real question is why do you have so many batteries?

[ralstonballa2413 20]

Dont you have to have that smaller pulley for the alt to produce the correct amount of amps that its is suppose to. Replacing the smaller pulley with a larger one would make it produce much less than what it is suppose to so it would basically be a stock alternator again.

[jcarter1885 995]

You know what.

I have not seen an answer that is any help at all.

Lots of people here wondering if this or if that with only the lamest remarks I have seen in a long time.

Even the most simple laws of electronics are not known here.

My God, I did not have dead batteries or any other problem. The alt just quit. thought I could find some intelligent advise here instead of these stupid observations I already know.

I thank you all for all your help, wish you all a good weekend but I'm going to find a forum with some more educated people...lmao

want to mail me directly with some other dumb ass or stupid remarks, please do so at

vanpas@cura.net

Haha this is hilarious, we have no intelligence at all but you think your system puts out 10,400 or 28,800 watts.

Thanks for the laugh of the year, that took the cake for the funniest shit I have heard all year long. Well good luck buddy and have fun, I doubt anybody is going to email you either.

Im sorry that we ask questions to understand what could be the problem instead of jumping to conclusions like other people would and make assumptions. If you were smart you would contact the company that made the amp and talk to them about it since it failed so early.

[mbarber25 29]

you're being ridiculous.

some of the most experienced and edcuated people are on this forum. you wish you knew a tenth of what some of the people on here know.

but please, be all of our guest and LEAVE. you're right. there ARE OTHER FORUMS. so GO. save your wise ass remarks for another one.

"Altogether the system at full power is +/- 10400 watts. If I add my batteries together I get 28000 watts so I have more then double what would actually be needed."

-to me, it seems like you have you no simple knowledge of the laws of electronics

[mbarber25 29]

You know what.

I have not seen an answer that is any help at all.

Lots of people here wondering if this or if that with only the lamest remarks I have seen in a long time.

Even the most simple laws of electronics are not known here.

My God, I did not have dead batteries or any other problem. The alt just quit. thought I could find some intelligent advise here instead of these stupid observations I already know.

I thank you all for all your help, wish you all a good weekend but I'm going to find a forum with some more educated people...lmao

want to mail me directly with some other dumb ass or stupid remarks, please do so at

vanpas@cura.net

Haha this is hilarious, we have no intelligence at all but you think your system puts out 10,400 or 28,800 watts.

Thanks for the laugh of the year, that took the cake for the funniest shit I have heard all year long. Well good luck buddy and have fun, I doubt anybody is going to email you either.

Im sorry that we ask questions to understand what could be the problem instead of jumping to conclusions like other people would and make assumptions. If you were smart you would contact the company that made the amp and talk to them about it since it failed so early.

aww you beat me lol

but:

a round of applause to jay

[mbarber25 29]

yea maybe if you didnt make such a fuckin stupid opening post you wouldve gotten some help by now

but instead you did. and sounded like quite the jackass

and you just did once again

point proven. and i gaurantee everybody else will approve.

"The day you can get to two FI BTL's fully loaded you let me know....LMAO...what a peon....lol"

how old are you? really. i'm 17 and i'm probably 3 times as mature as you and already probably know more about audio in comparison as you. so therefore. you're a "poen" whatever that might be.

but keep on bumpin your two fully loaded btls with your mega awesome hifonics amps that put out 24,000 watts. but oh wait you can't. you fried your alternator because you're most likely too uneducated to instal it right. it's called RESEARCH.

goodbye.

[shizzzon 461]

The educated people deal with facts, not speculation.

Hanapi, your entire description is purely based upon speculation information and this is why you confuse yourself on how your electrical system is being ran.

So, let me quit doin these box designs and stop workin on my comp car so i can break it down.

www.bcae1.com and www.the12volt.com is where u learn the basics.

SSA is where you NEED to be (Here) to use the information correctly.

This is how it is-

You have 2 amps capable of pulling up to 500A but realistically only pulling an average of about 200A.

A 250A alternator should handle this fine.. in a sense.

20-60A of power is dedicated to running the vehicle the entire time.

Also, you can only get maximum rated power out of the alternator once you reach the proper rpm which is usually 1,800-2,500rpm.

Because you had the original pulley put back on, if it's a larger one, the ratio from engine to alternator has gotten smaller so that means the engine rpm will need to be even higher to reach max output of your alternator!

So imagine 3,000rpm+ just to run your audio system on stock pulley?

the reason you won't see any dimming is because when the alt isn't putting out enough current for the demand, you have a LARGE battery bank in the back that is keeping up with it.

The problem lies here-

How long do u keep it cranked?

If you keep it cranked for long durations at a time, 10min minimum constantly... the alternator is probably trying to run the audio system ANd charge batts at the same time which is just too much current to do that.

You need to get a DMM and measure your voltage at the rear battery bank at idle and at 2,000rpm while blasting it and see how low your voltage goes for a duration of a few seconds to a few minutes!

This will confirm my theory if your voltage is dropping to 13.0v or lower, you have a problem...

You can't test it now because your alt is damaged but likely scenario.

Solution- if you blast it for prolonged periods.. these alts, all h.o. alts are nto designed for maximum current output for prolonged periods of time.

This is why you should never try and charge a dead battery with one...

Why you shouldnt try to pull more current than what it's designed for for long periods of time.

Why you shouldnt use a large quantity of batteries and let them discharge just a little on a high powered system with just a single alternator without charging the bank up with a battery charger.

Why you need to a voltmeter or safety cutoff switches for low voltage situations(this doesnt mean dimming, this means dipping into battery's reserve capacity).

The #1 reason why alts fail or high output alts fail is because they burn up.. workin them too hard.

A true high output alternator can't fit in our cars because they are too large.

these high output alts that are manufactured are intended for short period high current demands so they can keep cool.

A true high output case is about 8 times the size of your alt case.

Also, you have 2 different battery technologies mixed together in your vehicle. IT's not wise to leave them like that over time when the vehicle isn't running as they can fight with each other and drain each other.

What does this do?

Makes them want a charge, a longer charge immediately... thsi could also contribute to the alt being maxed out trying to charge batts even with the stereo off.

Too many maybes but lots of possibilities.

[jcarter1885 995]

If I had two BTL's installed I would have mine bumping right now with a working alternator unlike you. I just dont buy equipment because it can fit without the knowledge of knowing how it works and how to keep it working for more than a month. I see you fixed it but you still said, poing blank ( yeah Im the moron, thanks for pointing that out to me). A moron would let something fail and instead of contacting them ask people who dont even sell the product. A smart person would of contacted the company first and if you wanted some extra advice then asked a fourm also.

Basically we all tried to help you by understanding what you were running first and how your running it so we can narrow the problem down, but it seems like you wanted someone to know right away what was wrong from what you were saying. No that is not going to happen anywwhere, that is why the word troubleshooting exist. You can do all the name calling and emotional outburst you want and it wont bother me pal (grow up and take your skirt off).

[///M5 2,833]

Ok. Everyone stop flaming, this is absurd. The next person who flames on any of the PAST information in this thread is getting a vacation. And that includes the OP. On top of that before the OP responds to anything again I will expect that he has read the posting guidelines in my signature. If his post doesn't at least follow them so that we can help, he will get a vacation.

Okay, now back to the thread. Hanapi obviously you are very confused at the difference between what amps your electrical system can supply and what your stereo will supply. They are two very different things. Amplifiers are not all that efficient. On top of that your amp is already a bit over rated, plus citing anything in Peak watts is absurd. At best, with everything being perfect on both your amps you'd be lucky to see 4500w.

Either way, the reason your alt failed is either it was connected incorrectly (which from the posts above sounds like a strong possibility) or it was faulty from the beginning.

[Hanapi 8]

Ok. Everyone stop flaming, this is absurd. The next person who flames on any of the PAST information in this thread is getting a vacation. And that includes the OP. On top of that before the OP responds to anything again I will expect that he has read the posting guidelines in my signature. If his post doesn't at least follow them so that we can help, he will get a vacation.

Okay, now back to the thread. Hanapi obviously you are very confused at the difference between what amps your electrical system can supply and what your stereo will supply. They are two very different things. Amplifiers are not all that efficient. On top of that your amp is already a bit over rated, plus citing anything in Peak watts is absurd. At best, with everything being perfect on both your amps you'd be lucky to see 4500w.

Either way, the reason your alt failed is either it was connected incorrectly (which from the posts above sounds like a strong possibility) or it was faulty from the beginning.

Ok fair enough... I did get a little frustrated and am sure there are plenty of knowledgeable people here.

My apologies.

I just applied the theory to be sure that worst come I would at least have enough battery reserve to give when needed.

I think I just asked too much of the alt for too long a period.

I ordered two 350 amp alts, a bracket kit to install both. On top of this , also have two batcaps 4000 to separate them from the normal car batteries.

I'll see to read up some more.

thanks and have a good weekend.

JR

Edited December 4, 2009 by Hanapi

[jcarter1885 995]

Ok so are you saying that you just ordered these two new alternators and brand new batteries (the Batcap 4000, what happened to the Kinetiks HC3800)?

Im a little lost, what all do you currenlty have in the car for electrical upgrades as of right now?

What did you order and will have in the car within the next week(s) for electrical upgrades?

[Hanapi 8]

Ok so are you saying that you just ordered these two new alternators and brand new batteries (the Batcap 4000, what happened to the Kinetiks HC3800)?

Im a little lost, what all do you currenlty have in the car for electrical upgrades as of right now?

What did you order and will have in the car within the next week(s) for electrical upgrades?

Ok Jay-cee,

Let me start from the beginning.

I have a 2004 Ford E-350 PSD van.

The van has originally two 850 amp batteries in parallel.

When my son and I installed the system, we used zero gauge wire to connect two Kinetik 3800 batteries to the original batteries. I have two FI 15 BTL's wired for one Ohm. I am using two amplifiers ( Hifonics Brutus BXI2610D) each one driving one sub. The product info states that they put out 2600 watts @ 1 Ohm. We also installed an Excessive amperage 250amp alternator.

The system worked great with no problems at all. It is pretty loud for our small Island so I was happy.

Leading up to the end of the alternator......

We were standing in the parking lot at the airport waiting for my wife and daughter to come back from a shopping trip to Miami and of course every once in a while we cracked the stereo and laughed at people jumping aside because of the massive bass.

Went to greet the wife and daughter, got in the van and drove off. All of a sudden the alt light comes on and I can see it is not charging at all.

Being on a hot tropical Island I wasn't about to turn the AC or light off so the wife would start bitching about messing with the stereo,etc,etc. Got back home after driving for about 20 minutes and the van even restarted just fine. Good thing I had the additional batteries.

I spoke with Nate at Excessive for a lengthy period trying to pin point why the alt failed. (I now have a pretty good idea) The thing is I want to be able to play that thing as loud as I want for as long as I want. So.....now we are getting to what I ordered next.

Spoke to Nate again and he is sending me parts to make the burned alt into a 350 amp alternator along with a new 350 amp alternator. Got in touch with friends in the States that own a Ford dealership and got him to send me a bracket kit and wiring diagram so that I can install a second alternator. To have a bigger reserve, I also spoke with Diane and Mr. Mckenzie at XSTATIC LLC who is sending me two BATCAP 4000's.

I was thinking to run both 350 amp alternators and add the two Batcap 4000 to the rest of the system.

I am almost afraid to ask for an opinion now but what the heck.

Let me hear it.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Hanapi

[Hanapi 8]

No opinions or suggestions? Hey at this point I am listening.

It has gotten a little expensive so I'm open to some expert advise.

[jcarter1885 995]

Great info, ok now I understand what is going on. Yeah basically you were playing it too long which HO Alternator's arent intended for as shizzzon stated earlier in his spill. Yeah you have a good reserve on batts already but the alternator was iffy, glad to see you got everything working or will have everything working for in the future.

[///M5 2,833]

Advice on what, you already bought more alt than you need.

[jcarter1885 995]

Advice on what, you already bought more alt than you need.

x2, and enough batteries too. I do have a question for you though OP, what do you actually mean I want to play my system as long as you want as loud as you want (what time frame is as long as you want)?