4ohm vs 1 ohm ?

[socialstealth 0]

I have a 12'' dc lvl 4 in a box; 2 cf tuned to 30 hz. I have an audiocontrol epicenter which will be replicating fast-paced bass down to the subwoofer level (rock music).

Would it be worth it to run the sub at 4 ohms as opposed to 1 ohm?

1 ohm would of course be cheaper, but would I notice much of a difference (considering the bass will be rather fast-paced) if I bought a 4 ohm 1000w amp?

what amp would you guys recommend? I know a DC sub isn't the best choice for SQ, but I already have it

frontstage is a pair of hertz mlk 165's powered by a ZED kronos

alpine 9887 hu.

[Duran 387]

There won't be an audible difference.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

umm 4ohm would be easier on your car's electrical!! as for SQ ohm load isn't noticalbe..

lol sorry i was a bit late on my reply! you are fast Duran lol!

[KU40 173]

umm 4ohm would be easier on your car's electrical!! as for SQ ohm load isn't noticalbe..

lol sorry i was a bit late on my reply! you are fast Duran lol!

That really depends. Many amps that put out maximum power at 4 ohms bridged are class A/B amps, which are definitely not easier on the car's electrical than a 1 ohm stable class D amp. A class D amp that would put out max power at 4 ohms would likely have a regulated power supply, which is arguably also worse on the electrical system.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

umm 4ohm would be easier on your car's electrical!! as for SQ ohm load isn't noticalbe..

lol sorry i was a bit late on my reply! you are fast Duran lol!

That really depends. Many amps that put out maximum power at 4 ohms bridged are class A/B amps, which are definitely not easier on the car's electrical than a 1 ohm stable class D amp. A class D amp that would put out max power at 4 ohms would likely have a regulated power supply, which is arguably also worse on the electrical system.

aww i c!! thanks for correcting me!! I will keep that in mind next time someone asked me about 4ohm vs 1ohm!!!

thanks agian

[///M5 2,833]

I have a 12'' dc lvl 4 in a box; 2 cf tuned to 30 hz. I have an audiocontrol epicenter which will be replicating fast-paced bass down to the subwoofer level (rock music).

Get rid of the Epicenter, it will do you zero benefit and actually make things worse.

Would it be worth it to run the sub at 4 ohms as opposed to 1 ohm?

Completely inaudible difference. An amplifier for 1ohm will be cheaper to get the same power though.

what amp would you guys recommend? I know a DC sub isn't the best choice for SQ, but I already have it

As long as it is a quality brand an amplifier is an amplifier IMO. I'd rather buy a well made piece used than a new budget brand though. As for best choice of SQ, that is more box, install, and setup related than driver. Having a sub that is optimized for a sealed enclosure would do you better, but with enough experimenting you can get that to work in a ported and still blend with your fronts.

[Notorious97200 339]

On some other forums(more sq oriented !! as they say) or in pas magazine, they don't like to run their sub amp at 1 ohm. They tell you it's hard on the car electrical system and bad for sound quality.

I went from 650w at 4 ohms to 1000 at 1 ohm on my ssa Icon, and I never felt the bass was worse. I trusted ssa gurus !!!

Now, I run a saz 1500 on stock eleectrical system, and I have NO Problem at all !!!

[socialstealth 0]

well I just googled regulated vs unregulated power supply and read a few articles and I must say I am confused as ever.

I haven't connected the epicenter yet, so I'm not sure what it sounds like. But i'm interested as to your experience with them ///m5

what epicenters have you heard/used? can you describe why it'll make things worse?

I figured it would reproduce the 100hz area down in the 40 hz area, as the rock songs I like don't typically go down that low (so the sub is virtually useless for those songs).

I've read that many people think that epicenters make the bass 'muddy'. I think one could associate this with the subwoofer's inability to stop itself and produce the next note accurately. So wouldn't a higher dampening factor solve this issue? And of course, doubling the ohm load twice drastically increases the dampening factor.

can someone make up some percentages for me on efficiencies comparing regulated // unregulated and 1 ohm // 4 ohm?

[socialstealth 0]

On some other forums(more sq oriented !! as they say) or in pas magazine, they don't like to run their sub amp at 1 ohm. They tell you it's hard on the car electrical system and bad for sound quality.

I went from 650w at 4 ohms to 1000 at 1 ohm on my ssa Icon, and I never felt the bass was worse. I trusted ssa gurus !!!

Now, I run a saz 1500 on stock eleectrical system, and I have NO Problem at all !!!

when you say you 'never felt the bass was worse', do you mean that in a good way? like the bass was 'sick' ? or do you mean the bass felt terrible (in a bad way) ?

At 650w @ 4 ohms it sounded good, at 1000w @ 1 ohm it sounded bad, so are you running your saz1500 @ 4 ohms?

[kirill007 52]

I think he meant to say that the bass sounded the same, doesn't mather if it's at 4 or 1 ohm.

I think their is no difference in sound quality, never heard the difference even for speakers it doesn't really mathers if it plays at 1 or 16 ohm.(just saying numbers)

[ryan s 12]

On some other forums(more sq oriented !! as they say) or in pas magazine, they don't like to run their sub amp at 1 ohm. They tell you it's hard on the car electrical system and bad for sound quality.

I went from 650w at 4 ohms to 1000 at 1 ohm on my ssa Icon, and I never felt the bass was worse. I trusted ssa gurus !!!

Now, I run a saz 1500 on stock eleectrical system, and I have NO Problem at all !!!

It's not "worse for SQ," you're just running the amp harder. Your amp loves you more if you run it at 8 Ohms, than 1 Ohm for example.

Imagine that your car would make 400HP throughout the power band. Imagine another car that only makes the same 400HP at 8000 RPM. Hypothetically speaking, which engine would be more efficient? Remember: engines are extremely inefficient and most energy converted turns to heat (waste). Electronics' enemy is also heat, making them less efficient.

This is epically simplified and hypothetical, but I hope I relayed my thoughts effectively

well I just googled regulated vs unregulated power supply and read a few articles and I must say I am confused as ever.

I haven't connected the epicenter yet, so I'm not sure what it sounds like. But i'm interested as to your experience with them ///m5

what epicenters have you heard/used? can you describe why it'll make things worse?

I figured it would reproduce the 100hz area down in the 40 hz area, as the rock songs I like don't typically go down that low (so the sub is virtually useless for those songs).

I've read that many people think that epicenters make the bass 'muddy'. I think one could associate this with the subwoofer's inability to stop itself and produce the next note accurately. So wouldn't a higher dampening factor solve this issue? And of course, doubling the ohm load twice drastically increases the dampening factor.

can someone make up some percentages for me on efficiencies comparing regulated // unregulated and 1 ohm // 4 ohm?

I've had an Epicenter in my car for 4 or 5 years. It does make the bass "muddy" when turned up. I keep it because some artists and songs don't have the bass recorded at the same level as the rest of the song (think: The Doors, Bob Dylan).

The problem with the Epicenter is that is does one thing: it "adds" bass around a certain frequency or "Q." If you've ever seen an amp with a "Q" setting, that's what it is. The Epicenter's Q is 69Hz and adds bass around that frequency depending where the knob is. SO...it doesn't add bass "evenly" through the sub frequency response range. It sounds sloppy when cranked for that reason.

Damping factor is randomly tested...there is no standard, and therefore a pointless spec.

Regulated vs unregulated power supplies...the regulated PS pulls the same amount of current and creates the same amount of output at all input voltages. Unregulated does the opposite.

Want full output at ~12.8V @ rest? Regulated. Be prepared with your battery/batteries without the car running.

Unregulated means the amp will make, say, 200 watts @ 12V and 400 watts at 14V. Feed it more juice, make more power There may be a formula, but I'll leave that to the experts since I hate math

Wowwwwwwwww...sorry for the walls of words

[KU40 173]

well I just googled regulated vs unregulated power supply and read a few articles and I must say I am confused as ever.

I haven't connected the epicenter yet, so I'm not sure what it sounds like. But i'm interested as to your experience with them ///m5

what epicenters have you heard/used? can you describe why it'll make things worse?

I figured it would reproduce the 100hz area down in the 40 hz area, as the rock songs I like don't typically go down that low (so the sub is virtually useless for those songs).

I've read that many people think that epicenters make the bass 'muddy'. I think one could associate this with the subwoofer's inability to stop itself and produce the next note accurately. So wouldn't a higher dampening factor solve this issue? And of course, doubling the ohm load twice drastically increases the dampening factor.

can someone make up some percentages for me on efficiencies comparing regulated // unregulated and 1 ohm // 4 ohm?

Explain what you mean by "I figured it would reproduce the 100hz area down in the 40 hz area." Are you saying you think it would transform the 100 hz notes into 40 hz notes? If so, no, it does not do that.

[socialstealth 0]

well I just googled regulated vs unregulated power supply and read a few articles and I must say I am confused as ever.

I haven't connected the epicenter yet, so I'm not sure what it sounds like. But i'm interested as to your experience with them ///m5

what epicenters have you heard/used? can you describe why it'll make things worse?

I figured it would reproduce the 100hz area down in the 40 hz area, as the rock songs I like don't typically go down that low (so the sub is virtually useless for those songs).

I've read that many people think that epicenters make the bass 'muddy'. I think one could associate this with the subwoofer's inability to stop itself and produce the next note accurately. So wouldn't a higher dampening factor solve this issue? And of course, doubling the ohm load twice drastically increases the dampening factor.

can someone make up some percentages for me on efficiencies comparing regulated // unregulated and 1 ohm // 4 ohm?

Explain what you mean by "I figured it would reproduce the 100hz area down in the 40 hz area." Are you saying you think it would transform the 100 hz notes into 40 hz notes? If so, no, it does not do that.

No, I mean reproduce as in copy the notes and play them at a lower frequency.

Sort of like lets say you play A B D on a piano starting at middle C; well the epicenter plays A B D at the same time that the previously mentioned A B D is played, but at a lower frequency.

Correct?

[///M5 2,833]

No. If you truly want to listen to bassless music and have output you should be looking at beefing up your front stage and not your sub/s.

On some other forums(more sq oriented !! as they say) or in pas magazine, they don't like to run their sub amp at 1 ohm. They tell you it's hard on the car electrical system and bad for sound quality.

More SQ oriented my ass, just flat out wrong. No way, no how are you going to hear ANY difference on your sub. On top of that in a SQ oriented forum there really shouldn't be a discussion on subs hardly at all as they have hardly any influence on the system. Sure they can ruin the setup, but it doesn't take much to fill in the bottom octave when the rest is right. Site of posers if they truly think it makes a difference.

And I am completely SQ oriented and could care less about bass output.

[Impious 1,476]

well I just googled regulated vs unregulated power supply and read a few articles and I must say I am confused as ever.

I haven't connected the epicenter yet, so I'm not sure what it sounds like. But i'm interested as to your experience with them ///m5

what epicenters have you heard/used? can you describe why it'll make things worse?

I figured it would reproduce the 100hz area down in the 40 hz area, as the rock songs I like don't typically go down that low (so the sub is virtually useless for those songs).

The Epicenter works by looking for harmonics and filling in what might be a missing or attenuated fundamental that was filtered out during mastering process or somewhere in the reproduction chain (such as the source unit). If, for example, it finds a signal at 100hz (1st harmonic), 200hz (2nd harmonic) and 400hz (3rd harmonic) but a weak signal at 50hz (the fundamental), it will "restore" or "recreate" the 50hz signal. So it's only really useful if the fundamental is truly "missing". If the music you're listening to simply has limited bass content, then you are using the Epicenter outside of it's intended purpose. It's not supposed to be used to add bass to songs which were composed with limited bass content, only songs that had the bass unnaturally filtered out at some later point.

In general with most of today's music and sources, an Epicenter is pretty useless and does more damage than good. Most people still using them are intentionally (although maybe unknowingly) using them incorrectly.

I've read that many people think that epicenters make the bass 'muddy'. I think one could associate this with the subwoofer's inability to stop itself and produce the next note accurately. So wouldn't a higher dampening factor solve this issue? And of course, doubling the ohm load twice drastically increases the dampening factor.

Shameless plug:

Damping Factor

can someone make up some percentages for me on efficiencies comparing regulated // unregulated and 1 ohm // 4 ohm?

What exactly is it you want to know?

[socialstealth 0]

I read your article;

according to sundown's figures, their amplifiers efficiency rating only changes by a few % when comparing 1 ohm to 2 ohm to 4 ohm loads.

So is it pointless to power a sub with an ohm load over 1? is there any real advantage to getting a more expensive 2 ohm or 4 ohm load amp for a sub? (well, for my sub i'd say)

Basically, what it boils down to, bottom line, what I need to know.... this is my system, please give me your criticisms, be as judgmental/helpful as you can :

80amp alt

spv70 stinger bat in the trunk

random duracell batt under the hood

0g connecting the batts, big 3 in 0g

alpine 9887 (main source is ipod connection, mp3s)

hertz 165 mlk comps powered by a ZED kronos, ran through a kicker 2ch 31 band EQ

dc lvl 4 12'', powered by ??????, box tuned to 31 hz, 2 cf

Audio control epicenter between the sub amp and the hu.

I listen to punk-pop-rock, classical, and some rap.

bands like: senses fail, eminem, mozart, bach, etc.

I like listening to loud music without distortion. I like feeling the bass.

[Duran 387]

Did you know bass is only a fraction of the sound spectrum?

[KU40 173]

I read your article;

according to sundown's figures, their amplifiers efficiency rating only changes by a few % when comparing 1 ohm to 2 ohm to 4 ohm loads.

So is it pointless to power a sub with an ohm load over 1? is there any real advantage to getting a more expensive 2 ohm or 4 ohm load amp for a sub? (well, for my sub i'd say)

Basically, what it boils down to, bottom line, what I need to know.... this is my system, please give me your criticisms, be as judgmental/helpful as you can :

80amp alt

spv70 stinger bat in the trunk

random duracell batt under the hood

0g connecting the batts, big 3 in 0g

alpine 9887 (main source is ipod connection, mp3s)

hertz 165 mlk comps powered by a ZED kronos, ran through a kicker 2ch 31 band EQ

dc lvl 4 12'', powered by ??????, box tuned to 31 hz, 2 cf

Audio control epicenter between the sub amp and the hu.

I listen to punk-pop-rock, classical, and some rap.

bands like: senses fail, eminem, mozart, bach, etc.

I like listening to loud music without distortion. I like feeling the bass.

But their amps put out only 1/4 the power at 4 ohms than at 1. So you would be wasting a whole lot of amplifier by running them at 4 ohms. Which is why I commented that most of the time when comparing a 4 ohm load vs a 1 ohm load on the amp, you are going to be comparing different amp topologies (apples to oranges), except for the few with regulated power supplies that do the same power from 1-4 ohms, of which there are very few.

Honestly it's not going to matter at all what amp you buy for the subs as long as it's of good quality and has the power you want. The influence the sub amp has on sound is infinitesimal compared to driver choice and installation of the front speakers.

[///M5 2,833]

Same judgement as before. Sell the Epicenter while you still can and buy a reasonable quality amp that makes power at 1ohm.

[worstenemy453 11]

Whether it is true or not would be nice to know but i have heard that a higher ohm load will be better than, say a 1 ohm load, because distortion comes in quicker and lower ohm loads. Any weight to this ??

[altoncustomtech 773]

Whether it is true or not would be nice to know but i have heard that a higher ohm load will be better than, say a 1 ohm load, because distortion comes in quicker and lower ohm loads. Any weight to this ??

From what I understand in many many pages of reading on just this subject the difference on a QUALITY built amp in distortion levels from a 4 ohm load to a 1 ohm load is minimal, measuralbe yes, audible no.

Our ears cannot pick up distortion in bass frequencies very well. I could take my o-scope and hook it up to the sub amp on MANY setups out there and see distortion at high listening levels very easily without ever really hearing it when listening to the system. However, those distortion levels while noticable on the scope are in the 1-5% THD range and very hard to hear. Most people who do testing in this field regard 20-30% distortion level on BASS frequencies as audible "IN GENERAL". My O-scope can calculate THD levels (i have no idea how accurate the calculation is) and I've heard distortion at around 10% according to the scope. Even at with that, at 5% according to the scope I couldn't really hear it either so they may have something in that generalization. For higher frequencies it doesn't take anywhere near as much distortion to become audible, but for bass it's just not as appearent. Car Audio & Electronics had an article once on how they did their testing and how those numbers worked, I'll see if I can find it.

[///M5 2,833]

Download some distorted test tones and do a test, you won't hear shit driving your car at 10% at true sub bass frequencies. Adding some 0.x% or less by running at a different impedance is a joke. Wherever you read that about sub amplifiers is a site that I would be VERY dubious as to any of their recommendations. You can spend extra on snake oil if you wish, but I sure the hell wouldn't.

[ESW 1]

I've been very happy with my Zed Audio built amps. Mr. Mantz uses regulated power supplies and I couldn't be more happy with the outcome. BTW - Go 4ohm.