11 Speakers and 2 Subs. Lost on install

[jerbremser 0]

Here is what i have and what i am trying to do.

I have a 2003 Saab 9-3 with 7 speakers from Factory (3 on the dash, front doors, and rear deck). I have 4 sets of Kenwood Components that i wish to install in addition to the 7. I will be replacing the 7 factory speakers with 7 Kenwood so i can keep the sound consistent. My Idea is to install a pair of speakers into the back doors. I am in the process of making a new custom fiberglass Rear deck which has holes for the Original speakers and a slot in the center for 1 component set. I am going to build a new center storage compartment so that i can place my last component set there. What i am looking to do with wiring is to truely have a 5.1 surround sound system in the car. I have a mono block amp already for my 2 Subs which are 12" Kicker Comp VX.

I am pretty good with wiring and using multiple amps. However this is a first for me to install extra speakers on top of Factory therefore it will be a first to wire multiple speakers for listening. I would like to know how many amps will i need and how many channels on those amps? I was thinking One 4 channel for the Front/Back Left/Right as one group using RCA's to plug into the back of the deck. A second one channel amp for the Center component in the rear deck, the component in the center storage compartment, and finally for the center speaker up front on the dash. Or possibly a 5 channel amp where all 5 channels are equal and there is NO bass channel on it.

My idea is instead of wiring the speakers to the deck is to use the 5.1 RCA channels and wire every speaker straight to the amp.

Will this work? i can wire my speakers into one another so that only 1 positive and 1 negative go into each channel of the amp. So i would wire all of the Front left speakers together, all Front right together, and so on. Until i have 5 pairs of wires to attach to the amp. Then i would run 5 sets of RCA to the deck.

Does this sound right?

Please let me know.

All help is appreciated.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

I cant see how this could possibly turn out to be anything but fail.

[Impious 1,476]

11 speakers, as in 11 sets of speakers, meaning 11 tweeters and 11 mids?

Why on earth would you want to do that?

I think we need to take a step backwards, and have you go into a little more detail on the system goals and planned execution.

I don't know anything about Saab's OEM systems. So for starters, it would be helpful to know;

• If the Saab factory system has a 5.1 decoder or how you plan to accomplish "true" 5.1.
  
• What OEM equipment you plan on using in the new system (i.e. factory headunit, etc)
  
• Where are the factory speakers actually located (not just "on the dash", but where in the dash, for example)
  
• what speaker sizes the OEM speakers are
  
• What speakers (model # or link to them) you plan on using
  
• Where you plan on installing these aftermarket speakers including more details on the planned location of these 4 "extra" speakers
  
• What amplifier(s) you have to use or plan to use
  
• Your actual goal for the system as far as accuracy, staging/imaging goals, or if you're just looking to be "engulfed in sound"
  

No offense, but right now your planned system sounds a little clusterfucked. With more detailed info I think we might be able to help you de-clusterfuck it a little and come up with a better game plan. That or I'm just misunderstanding what you are trying to do....but I don't think that's the case.

[helotaxi 46]

You can't de-fuck a cluster. Just FYI.

[jerbremser 0]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. There are 7 Factory Speakers and i will be adding 4 component sets. So in all counting the tweets and full range speakers i am aiming for 15. However the 4 that im adding are really 8. And what i have already is not Kenwood im sorry i though it was. but in fact it is Pioneer TS-A1072R these are 3way speakers all 4inch. Paired up with them right now are 4 1inch tweets by pioneer as well. The new placement of these 4 sets are: a set in each back door (as there are none right now. Mid way up the door. Just under arm rest area of door) and 1 into my new rear deck and 1 will go to my center storage/arm rest area. The speakers which are already in the car are 3 in the dash (far right, center, and far left. These are on the dash or really on that flat part of the dash as it goes to meet the front windshield. All 3 of these speakers are 3.5 inch and i will replace them with Pioneer speakers as well. I have factory speakers in the front doors as well whose size is 6.75inch and the final 2 speakers from the factory are located in the rear deck and those are 4inch speakers.

The Factory deck will come out and i will replace it with one from another vehicle of mine. The deck is a Tview and it was what looks like 5.1 RCA coming out (the RCA's read: front left, front right, back left, back right, center and Sub) of it in addition to the wiring harness.

I have my sub amp already is it a Lanzar MXA282. This is a 2 channel 4000W max amp and i am using most of it to power both my Subs. My subs are 12" kicker comp VX. These are already in a fiberglass box with a rack for the one amp that i have.

What i am doing is taking all the audio equipment out of my Rover and im going to install all this into the Saab. I dont really intend on using any of the OEM equipment. I am happy to re-wire all speakers so that the harness to the unit only needs to accept the Power, Remote, antenna, and ground.

Yes i want to be loud but more so than that is i want to have a better sound in all areas than a movie theater. I want my home theater to be in my car. Right now i have a nice home theater set up with 1 sub and 9 speakers around the house from walls to ceiling.

The idea with having 11 speakers in the car is that the sound be pure and distinguished from left to right to center. I watch a lot of movies in the car, probably more movies than actual music. Whenever i travel from more that 30 min i have a movie playing instead of music (most of the time).

[ssh 924]

I believe you can accomplish all your goals with replacing factory speakers with better ones, rather then just adding more and more speakers. Quality > quantity.

[jerbremser 0]

i understand that changing the factory speakers to better quality will change a lot of the sound quality. I guess my idea does not need to be done but i would like to. I saw a van (grant it, it was a van and not a car) that had somewhere on the order of 22 speakers located all around the van from top to bottom. Yes that van was loud but it was also clear and all the different channels could be heard. Why would the Saab come with a center channel speaker if i cant utilize that by means of a center channel?

[jonbearsmt 919]

i dont understand what your saying.. but i have ran tons of speakers in limos and still end up with a 4 ohm load on 4 channels...

so just know it can be done....

i had a saab 95.. NOTHING is simple in them.. know that.. but start from scratch.. and run all your own wires.

[Impious 1,476]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. There are 7 Factory Speakers and i will be adding 4 component sets. So in all counting the tweets and full range speakers i am aiming for 15. However the 4 that im adding are really 8. And what i have already is not Kenwood im sorry i though it was. but in fact it is Pioneer TS-A1072R these are 3way speakers all 4inch. Paired up with them right now are 4 1inch tweets by pioneer as well. The new placement of these 4 sets are: a set in each back door (as there are none right now. Mid way up the door. Just under arm rest area of door) and 1 into my new rear deck and 1 will go to my center storage/arm rest area. The speakers which are already in the car are 3 in the dash (far right, center, and far left. These are on the dash or really on that flat part of the dash as it goes to meet the front windshield. All 3 of these speakers are 3.5 inch and i will replace them with Pioneer speakers as well. I have factory speakers in the front doors as well whose size is 6.75inch and the final 2 speakers from the factory are located in the rear deck and those are 4inch speakers.

The Factory deck will come out and i will replace it with one from another vehicle of mine. The deck is a Tview and it was what looks like 5.1 RCA coming out (the RCA's read: front left, front right, back left, back right, center and Sub) of it in addition to the wiring harness.

I have my sub amp already is it a Lanzar MXA282. This is a 2 channel 4000W max amp and i am using most of it to power both my Subs. My subs are 12" kicker comp VX. These are already in a fiberglass box with a rack for the one amp that i have.

What i am doing is taking all the audio equipment out of my Rover and im going to install all this into the Saab. I dont really intend on using any of the OEM equipment. I am happy to re-wire all speakers so that the harness to the unit only needs to accept the Power, Remote, antenna, and ground.

Yes i want to be loud but more so than that is i want to have a better sound in all areas than a movie theater. I want my home theater to be in my car. Right now i have a nice home theater set up with 1 sub and 9 speakers around the house from walls to ceiling.

The idea with having 11 speakers in the car is that the sound be pure and distinguished from left to right to center. I watch a lot of movies in the car, probably more movies than actual music. Whenever i travel from more that 30 min i have a movie playing instead of music (most of the time).

I understand your goal. And can tell you with 100% certainty that you are going about it entirely the wrong way.

You can't just start tossing a bunch of speakers in random spots in your car and experience good results. It's just going to make things worse. I can tell you with zero doubt that your car with the intended installation will sound much worse than both your house and a movie theater, and much worse than a properly planned and executed system. There are so many problems with it, that it's really hard to tell where to start explaining the issues with it. So, for now, let's just take it on faith that your planned system layout is not going to be a good match for your goal.

You need to start over from scratch. If you're willing to listen, we can help you actually achieve your goal with good results. What is your budget and what equipment is in the Rover that you were wanting to carry over to the Saab? It sounds like you are pretty open to customizing installation locations? What fabrication skills do you have (can you fiberglass, etc)?

[jerbremser 0]

My budget to purchase new equipment is around $1000. As mentioned previously i have most of what i need already. Even though it is all located in my Rover im going to move it all over to the Saab because in a few months i will be moving to Hawaii with the Saab and Ditching my Rover. What i already have. 2 12" Kicker Comp VX; 4 Pioneer 4" 3way speakers with 4 1" tweets. My amp is Lanzar MXA282. This is a 2 channel 4000W max amp. I use this currently to drive my subs and it does a fantastic job. I also have a deck in the Rover which will come out and go into the Saab. My deck is a touch screen "TView" and it has all the bells and whistles on the back for RCA's and rear view camera, and navigation etc.

I would like to replace the 7 Factory speakers with Pioneer as well so i can keep it all consistent.

I will need to purchase new speakers to replace the factory 7. I will need a Amp or 2 to push the speakers whether it is only the Factory 7 or more.

I am familiar with fiberglass work and building smooth round custom boxes to be painted. I have built only 3 fiberglass boxes but i have built plenty of boxes using all MDF. Right now i have the trunk torn apart so that i can place Dynomat down and my rear deck is out as well. Im working on measuring so that i can replace the rear deck with a fiberglass deck for the regular speakers.

Im also in the middle of making a fiberglass enclosure for my subs and my amp in the middle. The placement of the subs in the Saab will be up against the back of the back seats. One in each corner and i have a rack between the subs to place my amp on. My second or third amp does not need to be in the same area. If they are it is ok with me. I am looking at the back seats now wondering if i could set the new amp under the back seats or the front seat because only the driver side is power operated.

As far as other fabricating skills im not sure what i can do. I open panels in the car so i can hide my wires.

[Impious 1,476]

It sounds like you have your subs, sub amp and headunit taken care of. So really all we need to focus on is the speakers, amplification for them and their locations/installation.

With your budget and goals, what you really need is simplification. All of those speakers are just going to mess up the frequency response, confuse the sound and ruin tonality. One thing to keep in mind that is your car is a difficult environment to work with for audio reproduction. Equipment selection is only part of the equation....how and where that equipment is installed is going to contribute just as much to the sound as the speakers, which is the other area for improvement.

IMO ditch the Pioneer 4" Co-axials and 4 tweeters. I would look instead at purchasing two sets of 6.5" components to use for the front left, center and right (one mid and one tweeter per channel via passive crossover...so you'll end up with one "spare" mid and tweeter), and a pair of good 6.5" co-axials for the two rear surround channels. Properly amplified this should provide more than sufficient output yet still provide good sound stage representation and overall sound.

Wide on the rear deck would be fine for the rear surround speakers. For the front speakers, I would ideally put the left and right 6.5" component speakers in the kickpanels, and find a good location on top of the dash for the center channel mid and tweeter. If building kickpanels isn't possible, then the front door locations would be sufficient but less ideal IMO for the front left and right speakers.

For amplifiers, I'd probably look at a pair of 4-channel amplifiers. Bridge a pair of channels to each front left, center and right set of speakers and use the remaining two channels for the two rear surrounds.

For equipment, SSA happens to be running some good deals at the moment that would fit your needs quite well. If they have the inventory, you could go with two pair of the Bravox CS60CF for the front speakers, Bravox CX60CF coaxials for the rear surrounds and a pair of the Zed built Boss 4-channel amps. That would put the equipment total around $785, well within your budget and give you some extra $ to put towards additional sound deadening (such as in the doors if you install the front speakers there) or other installation materials. But I don't want to sound like I'm just hocking what SSA is selling, so you are more than welcome to look for different equipment selections.

[///M5 2,833]

Does the Tview actually have a 5.1 surround outputs? That would require at least 6 RCA's. L, C, R, LR, RR, & Sub. If not, you are going to nearly need to put your whole budget just into a processor. I'd then ask the question how often you listen to music encoded in 5.1 or how many movies you will truly watch in your car. My guess is that it won't be much music as it is very rarely sold in surround sound form and as for movies, not sure why you'd subject yourself to sitting in your car to do that.

That being said, 2 kick ass front speakers and an amp would leave plenty of budget to truly make sure they are installed correctly and will outperform the surround layout anyways.

[bassahaulic 155]

I don't think his unit has 5.1.....

http://www.tview.us/DVD70TS.htm

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/cm_20_644_Tview_In-Dash_Video.aspx

[///M5 2,833]

I didn't think so, going to add nearly $1k in processing then...

[Impious 1,476]

Hrmph, I guess I didn't research the HU itself. Based on what he said I just assumed it actually decoded and processed the 5.1 surround prior to output.

If that's not the case then I whole-heartedly agree with Sean. Skip the 5.1 speakers if you don't have true 5.1 processing and go with a better quality 2-channel setup.

[jerbremser 0]

I like these ideas and I think you are right with the 2 channel set up. But I think I will still be redoing the rear deck to accommodate larger speakers than 4 inch.

[///M5 2,833]

I like these ideas and I think you are right with the 2 channel set up. But I think I will still be redoing the rear deck to accommodate larger speakers than 4 inch.

Actually not worth it. Just put NOTHING in the back and you'll be golden. Rear speakers in a 2chn setup just create a mess and don't help. Take that budget and put it into the fronts and you will be way happier.