Surround Sound in Vehicle

[Sencheezy 689]

Hey guys,

A thought has hit me as I look through the forums, and I was wondering if anybody could give me their opinion on this matter. Ok, so why when somebody decides to focus on the "Front stage", do they only focus on the front two doors? I understand that the driver is up front, so maybe that is the primary reason for this. When I look at a install, I would see anywhere from two to eight door speakers but only in the front two doors. I don't understand why isn't it kept to the equal amount of speakers that are in the back two doors, or for cars, the back deck? To me, if I was to put 3 door speakers up front, I would put 3 door speakers in the back as well. I understand there may be different reasons, such as funds, available space, equipment. But even so, if you spend x on the front, why not x in the rear, that is my question. I would imagine that if I was to put as much effort in rear, as the front, it would create a surround sound effect, or just bring the overall sound quality to life. So any input on this matter would be greatly appreciated, THANKS!

[smashedz28 110]

alot of people either dont care about the rear because they dont sit back there or just push it to the side and spend more money on something else. I would think rear speakers could only help also.

[Duran 387]

It's personal preference, but must of the music recorded is not in surround, that defeats the purpose of having speakers behind you.

If you are focusing on the fronts the goal is to create a "stage" that would simulate a live performance

[Sencheezy 689]

It's personal preference, but must of the music recorded is not in surround, that defeats the purpose of having speakers behind you.

If you are focusing on the fronts the goal is to create a "stage" that would simulate a live performance

True, but I have listened to some songs that would utilize this feature, I.E., in a song, they would use fading of a gun shot going around the driver, so it would go FL, BL, BR, FR, or even just left to right kinda thing.

I understand the "stage", but even in this case, would the speakers that you are using to create this illusion have a more present feeling in the front speakers, rather then coming from the entire vehicle? Its hard to explain on paper, but, I hope you understand what I'm saying. Like, Ok, lets say your creating the "stage" effect, wouldn't you have to, in a dumed down sense, turn down the volume in the front speakers, so that all the speakers will sound as though they are coming from one source, simulating a surround sound in your vehicle. Well what I am thinking is, why turn down the volume of the front speakers, when you can simply add more speakers behind you, instead of trying to mimic what your trying to achieve.

[helotaxi 46]

It's personal preference, but must of the music recorded is not in surround, that defeats the purpose of having speakers behind you.

If you are focusing on the fronts the goal is to create a "stage" that would simulate a live performance

True, but I have listened to some songs that would utilize this feature, I.E., in a song, they would use fading of a gun shot going around the driver, so it would go FL, BL, BR, FR, or even just left to right kinda thing.

I seriously doubt that. Left to right is nothing more than basic stereo but you would have to have surround encoding on the media for the sound to move all around you. Creative mixing can get the same effect using psychoacoustics with only two channels and a single set of speakers. Unless the media is mixed in surround and then used a format that supported it (CD, mp3, etc... do not) rear speakers add nothing but headaches when trying to get things to sound right. The more drivers you have trying to play the same signal, the harder it is to get the system from sounding like a big mess. Differing path-lengths from the different drivers cause cancellation and reinforcement at various frequencies and are nearly impossible to tune correctly. If you only have the ability to play a stereo signal, there is nothing to be gained by adding rear speakers.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

It's personal preference, but must of the music recorded is not in surround, that defeats the purpose of having speakers behind you.

If you are focusing on the fronts the goal is to create a "stage" that would simulate a live performance

True, but I have listened to some songs that would utilize this feature, I.E., in a song, they would use fading of a gun shot going around the driver, so it would go FL, BL, BR, FR, or even just left to right kinda thing.

Unless the media is mixed in surround and then used a format that supported it (CD, mp3, etc... do not) rear speakers add nothing but headaches when trying to get things to sound right. The more drivers you have trying to play the same signal, the harder it is to get the system from sounding like a big mess. Differing path-lengths from the different drivers cause cancellation and reinforcement at various frequencies and are nearly impossible to tune correctly. If you only have the ability to play a stereo signal, there is nothing to be gained by adding rear speakers.

About 10 some odd years ago everyone was applauding DVD-A, saying it would the future of audio, blah, blah, blah. Funny how that panned out...

[Impious 1,476]

Just tossing speakers in the rear doesn't give you "surround sound". The sound might surround you, but it's not "surround sound" in the sense used today with the rear speakers playing the proper (i.e. non-staging) sound information. Surround sound and other similar formats would need to be properly mixed in that manor into the recording (or a suitable processor capable of "upconverting" standard stereo to such a format). The vast majority of music is recorded and replayed in a standard 2-channel stereo format.....in which case, the rear speakers are typically a hindrance as helotaxi pointed out. Confusing the soundstage and producing undesirable frequency response affects.

That said; there is some merit the a properly utilized rear stage. This isn't as simple as just tossing some speakers in the rear of the vehicle. To begin to approach a useful result with rear speakers, you would need a L-R (left minus right) summed signal, bandpassed and time delayed. The speakers here wouldn't play a prominent role in the system. They would be used for ambiance only since basically any of the real "center staged" info is removed from the signal via the left minus right signal summation, leaving you essentially with only the left and right ambiance/reverb stuff. Never tried it, but always sounded kinda fun. Though with all of the true surround sound processors available, those are probably a better/easier option since that's specifically what they were designed to accomplish.

Some people swear by surround sound (actual, properly implemented surround sound) for the added ambiance and spaciousness. I did listen to GrampaDon's (another user on here) system in Logic7 and to be honest....it didn't sound all that different. Though it could have been something in the setup or vehicle.....he has a long vehicle with the rear speakers all the way in the back, and IIRC he was just using the 20w amp built into the MS-8 for rear amplification.

[Sencheezy 689]

hmmmmm, well thanks for the response guys. I guess I learned something today

The songs I have heard that gave me that surround sound was an older track, past decade or so, and also I've heard songs that would make it seem that the helicopter was actually right over my head, and it seemed like it just flew right over me, from left to right. So, I guess you guys are right. I was just thinking that, if you put as many speakers in the back, as you did in the front, it would just be better. But I guess thats all preference. I would think it seems like the front is just simply over powering the rear. I guess the only way to have real surround is if you had a dvd going huh?? lol. Well thanks again guys. I just was wondering why people always put so many dang o speakers in there front doors, and would only replace the stock speakers in the back, as if they wer not as important in the front.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

The only complaint i hear about only putting speakers in the front doors is that the people sitting in my back cant hear them over the bass. So i purchased some rather inexpensive ones for my rear for experimenting. But yes, people sitting in the back of my car do have troubles hearing my speakers in the front doors (i DO have the stock ones in the rear doors but i didn't balance the gain knob on the external amp for the front doors to match volume level on the stock speakers in the back doors)

[Sencheezy 689]

The only complaint i hear about only putting speakers in the front doors is that the people sitting in my back cant hear them over the bass. So i purchased some rather inexpensive ones for my rear for experimenting. But yes, people sitting in the back of my car do have troubles hearing my speakers in the front doors (i DO have the stock ones in the rear doors but i didn't balance the gain knob on the external amp for the front doors to match volume level on the stock speakers in the back doors)

So if it wasn't for your friends in the back, you would have probly nvr put speakers in the back would you ? lol. Did you hear a difference from once you added speakers in the back, or where you still only hearing the front speakers overwhelming your rear speakers?

[The enD 467]

The only complaint i hear about only putting speakers in the front doors is that the people sitting in my back cant hear them over the bass. So i purchased some rather inexpensive ones for my rear for experimenting. But yes, people sitting in the back of my car do have troubles hearing my speakers in the front doors (i DO have the stock ones in the rear doors but i didn't balance the gain knob on the external amp for the front doors to match volume level on the stock speakers in the back doors)

I've sat in a properly done SQ vehicle and believe me it didn't need any speakers in the rear.

He won first place at his class at EMMA the next year.

[Sencheezy 689]

Thats a pretty sick setup. Thanks for showing this, so see, heres my question, with all the speakers up front, do you ever hear anything coming from the back? Or at that point, is there just no reason to hear from the rear, if you have 8 speakers right in front of you? To me, it would seem like all of the sound(s) that you are listening to are only coming from one source, and thats in front of you.

[Duran 387]

Thats a pretty sick setup. Thanks for showing this, so see, heres my question, with all the speakers up front, do you ever hear anything coming from the back? Or at that point, is there just no reason to hear from the rear, if you have 8 speakers right in front of you? To me, it would seem like all of the sound(s) that you are listening to are only coming from one source, and thats in front of you.

Exactly...the sound is coming from the "stage"

Have you ever been to a concert or live performance and felt it lacked surround sound? I highly doubt it

[Sencheezy 689]

Thats a pretty sick setup. Thanks for showing this, so see, heres my question, with all the speakers up front, do you ever hear anything coming from the back? Or at that point, is there just no reason to hear from the rear, if you have 8 speakers right in front of you? To me, it would seem like all of the sound(s) that you are listening to are only coming from one source, and thats in front of you.

Exactly...the sound is coming from the "stage"

Have you ever been to a concert or live performance and felt it lacked surround sound? I highly doubt it

LOL, I see what your saying. Well in that case, I do see your point. So I guess I have my answer now then. And I'm assuming the only downfall would be the passangers in the rear. Unless you just have a shit ton of speakers in the front, or a good enough system that is properly equiped and balanced so that the rear passangers can still hear the vocals from the overwhelming bass coming from behind them.

[The enD 467]

Thats a pretty sick setup. Thanks for showing this, so see, heres my question, with all the speakers up front, do you ever hear anything coming from the back? Or at that point, is there just no reason to hear from the rear, if you have 8 speakers right in front of you? To me, it would seem like all of the sound(s) that you are listening to are only coming from one source, and thats in front of you.

Exactly...the sound is coming from the "stage"

Have you ever been to a concert or live performance and felt it lacked surround sound? I highly doubt it

LOL, I see what your saying. Well in that case, I do see your point. So I guess I have my answer now then. And I'm assuming the only downfall would be the passangers in the rear. Unless you just have a shit ton of speakers in the front, or a good enough system that is properly equiped and balanced so that the rear passangers can still hear the vocals from the overwhelming bass coming from behind them.

I was a passenger in the rear seat of that car I posted! That's why I made the comment and posted pictures. That was my experience and I did not felt like I can't hear it clearly or it's coming somewhere way up front.

x2 on what Duran said. There are no speakers behind you at a concert. The band is at your front.

[Sencheezy 689]

Ohhhhhh, ok, I just read that you wer in that car, I didn't know where at in that car.... Ok, I gotcha. hmmmm, well, lol, I guess if its well done, then there is no consequent in overloading the front with speakers. Thanks for sharring your personal experience with me, now I can realate to what your saying.

[helotaxi 46]

With only the stock front speakers in my truck running off HU power only, my wife has no trouble hearing it when she is in the back with the baby and is usually telling me to turn it down. Way I figure, if they mattered, they'd be in front. If the bass is that overpowering, you have too much bass anyway.

[Sencheezy 689]

With only the stock front speakers in my truck running off HU power only, my wife has no trouble hearing it when she is in the back with the baby and is usually telling me to turn it down. Way I figure, if they mattered, they'd be in front. If the bass is that overpowering, you have too much bass anyway.

Thats a pretty impressive HU then.

What about other rear passangers? What are their opinions? Not to say I don't trust your family's opinion, I just know that most families don't want their child to be exposed to loud music.

[millertime 12]

i use to have speakers in all 4 doors of my 06 ford f-150 super crew.. and i plain on hooking the rears back up agin this summer when i put in the new amp i bought, but haven't got put in yet.. for music my truck rocks with the Focal krx2's in the front doors and my Xcon in the rear.... but when we take road trips or go riding and it starts to rain out the wife and kid watch DVD's it sounds way better in surround sound.. Movies flat sound great in the truck with the Xcon and speakers in all the doors.. i need to get a center speaker yet.. just not sure how i am going to mount it yet.... here is a pic of my setup for movies. . i put a new rear monitor in that swivels 90 deg.

Edited January 19, 2011 by millertime

[Sencheezy 689]

i use to have speakers in all 4 doors of my 06 ford f-150 super crew.. and i plain on hooking the rears back up agin this summer when i put in the new amp i bought, but haven't got put in yet.. for music my truck rocks with the Focal krx2's in the front doors and my Xcon in the rear.... but when we take road trips or go riding and it starts to rain out the wife and kid watch DVD's it sounds way better in surround sound.. Movies flat sound great in the truck with the Xcon and speakers in all the doors.. i need to get a center speaker yet.. just not sure how i am going to mount it yet.... here is a pic of my setup for movies. . i put a new rear monitor in that swivels 90 deg.

Wow!! That is so sick. Thats for sharing that

That is a great example, Let us know what it sounds like compared to just have your Focals to listen to. I'm curious if what difference it will make in music and in movies.

If anybody has a before and after to my question, I would love to hear your opinion. I know now that, the stage effect, is all you need. Now just curious what difference will it make adding speakers to the rear? Better or no audible difference???

[Sencheezy 689]

P.S. Love you truck btw, been looking for a 06-07 Explorer lately, a lot actually, lol. Its gna be my next purchase. I search for <10,000 and a few actually show up with ~100k

[helotaxi 46]

With only the stock front speakers in my truck running off HU power only, my wife has no trouble hearing it when she is in the back with the baby and is usually telling me to turn it down. Way I figure, if they mattered, they'd be in front. If the bass is that overpowering, you have too much bass anyway.

Thats a pretty impressive HU then.

What about other rear passangers? What are their opinions? Not to say I don't trust your family's opinion, I just know that most families don't want their child to be exposed to loud music.

I don't play it very loud at all. Between 15 and 20 out of 50 on the volume.

[helotaxi 46]

That is a great example, Let us know what it sounds like compared to just have your Focals to listen to. I'm curious if what difference it will make in music and in movies.

Different sources with different coding and different capabilities and the effect is different. The DVD is actually coded for more than 2 channels, music is not. The difference in movies will be that you can have actual surround sound (Dolby, DTS, whatever) but with music you will do nothing but confuse the soundstage and trash the frequency response unless you use some serious processing and have the time and know-how to correctly set it up.

If anybody has a before and after to my question, I would love to hear your opinion. I know now that, the stage effect, is all you need. Now just curious what difference will it make adding speakers to the rear? Better or no audible difference???

The difference will be audible and not an improvement if you care about fidelity.

[swift 501]

I thinks its all personal preference unless competing which I never plan on doing. I like sound coming from all around me and have always tried to have my rear setup keep up with the front. But again, thats my preference.

[Sencheezy 689]

I thinks its all personal preference unless competing which I never plan on doing. I like sound coming from all around me and have always tried to have my rear setup keep up with the front. But again, thats my preference.

I think I'm on the same boat with you. And now throughout this thread, I firmly believe it is a preference on what people decide to do with their speakers. I mean, I've always known that, but as far as why people decide to overload their front stage, and leave the rear as non-important for different reason that I now understand.