Is there any demand for air suspension parts?

[edouble101 314]

Tirefryr brought up some great points shizzon. Your car is made up of stamped thin steel and tac welds. As a whole it does what it was designed to do well. What tirefryr was saying was that just replacing a couple suspension parts will only band aid the additional weight. That "as a whole" the vehicle could have a high failure rate at gvwr or close to it over a long time period.

I think you would be better off installing a smaller effecient system that would still meet your needs.

I bet 99.99% of people that do installs do not think of this.

[shizzzon 461]

oh i know what he is saying.. but i'm not debating the fact if i replace this and replace that if it's magically fixed..

I KNOW that's not true..

i can't remember if i posted it in this thread but a local shop wanted me to take these pics so they can look under the vehicle to view what it looks like...

They told me this-

Install the weight if u want to because that's the only way you are going to do this project successfully...

They said once something starts or does fail, then we can come in and repair AND reinforce that area at the same time.

they do not want to reinforce anything now from what i understand at thsi point because reinforcing something now is guessing and can force the vehicle to create a NEW weak point by doing so without a direct reason to...

HOWEVER.. i am still in the process of downsizing the build...

And on a side note...

I've got a guy with a scion tc that currently has 865lbs of weight ALL in the back on stock everything(then plus his body weight u have to add as well)

Now.. yes, he is completely stupid because his car is literally draggin ass but it's been like that for 3months now without a problem so i don't know.. but i'm still tryin to downsize.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

oh i know what he is saying.. but i'm not debating the fact if i replace this and replace that if it's magically fixed..

I KNOW that's not true..

i can't remember if i posted it in this thread but a local shop wanted me to take these pics so they can look under the vehicle to view what it looks like...

They told me this-

Install the weight if u want to because that's the only way you are going to do this project successfully...

They said once something starts or does fail, then we can come in and repair AND reinforce that area at the same time.

they do not want to reinforce anything now from what i understand at thsi point because reinforcing something now is guessing and can force the vehicle to create a NEW weak point by doing so without a direct reason to...

HOWEVER.. i am still in the process of downsizing the build...

And on a side note...

I've got a guy with a scion tc that currently has 865lbs of weight ALL in the back on stock everything(then plus his body weight u have to add as well)

Now.. yes, he is completely stupid because his car is literally draggin ass but it's been like that for 3months now without a problem so i don't know.. but i'm still tryin to downsize.

And this is why you do NOT want to deal with this shop. I wise engineer or even mechanic would go out of the way to PREVENT the problem. They understand the chassis and suspension design and metallurgy. They understand the weight and the forces it induces, so they KNOW where to brace and how to build BEFORE it breaks. A good shop would never tell you to take pictures, they would take the car, put it up on a lift, get it on scales and plan out what needs to be done.

[Jay-C76 333]

Dang Toyota's

From the pics it looks as though you may be flirting with disaster.

Although it's really hard to tell from just pictures.

Like I said early on the phone, getting close to or over the recommended weight would be a concern.

It'd be almost impossible to predict what would fail first, the frame work of the car or the suspension mounts.

I know this isn't anymore help than I gave ya over the phone but,

you could try and see what happens, hoping it's not a serious failure that would cause a wreck while driving.

If it were me,

and I know ya don't want to hear this but,

I would try to downsize the build lessening the chance of a total failure.

[shizzzon 461]

well thanks tirefryr.... since i am mechanically challenged with this stuff.. ur view helps on choosing who i should talk to!

Jay.. i have OFFICIALLY just downsized the build 540lbs without losing as much as u think on paper...

But i am waiting my rep to get back with me to confirm the new route...

Tirefryr, in the meantime, i will be hunting for a shop.. you know any names of shops i should be contacting?

I woudl contact Air lift.. but i seriously doubt they would do this kind of work in person....

[Jay-C76 333]

And this is why you do NOT want to deal with this shop. I wise engineer or even mechanic would go out of the way to PREVENT the problem. They understand the chassis and suspension design and metallurgy. They understand the weight and the forces it induces, so they KNOW where to brace and how to build BEFORE it breaks. A good shop would never tell you to take pictures, they would take the car, put it up on a lift, get it on scales and plan out what needs to be done.

Never looked at it that way.

Very good point!

If they REALLY knew there vehicle they would know the weak spots.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

well thanks tirefryr.... since i am mechanically challenged with this stuff.. ur view helps on choosing who i should talk to!

Jay.. i have OFFICIALLY just downsized the build 540lbs without losing as much as u think on paper...

But i am waiting my rep to get back with me to confirm the new route...

Tirefryr, in the meantime, i will be hunting for a shop.. you know any names of shops i should be contacting?

I woudl contact Air lift.. but i seriously doubt they would do this kind of work in person....

I don't know of any shops, sorry. Personally, I think it's waste of money. You're looking at anywhere from $65-$100+/hr. just for labor. Add materials into that and, if done properly, you're easily into it for at least a grand probably more. So you're just dumping more and more money into it, hence the reason I suggested a better platform.

[ssh 924]

This obviously doesn't help, but it sounds like if you want to go with all the extra weight, then you need a vehicle with a stronger chassis designed for it (truck, box frame, pick up, etc)

Or go with a smaller build in the tC

Good luck Sean

[shizzzon 461]

I haven't been in this thread in a while..

Reason is because i've been talking with a Scion Engineer and a couple of custom chassis shops

As of this moment..

Scion engineer states the following-

420lbs is rated limit for rear based on stock parts...

After upgrading to Air Struts and heavy duty Hubs(this is optional but a good idea regardless),

the next weak link is the framework itself.

Framework rating is as follows-

No more than 1000lbs of weight centralized in the rear.

No more than 1500lbs of weight dispersed throughout the vehicle.

Going beyond these numbers will result in the car physically twisting apart if hit a bump strong enough and total the car instantly....

So.. that's definitely ideal...

Currently, the scion engineer has confirmed that the new revised build going in the car already fits under the maximum suggested load zone!

However, like i always say, safety first...

So, i have an appointment tomorrow for an inspection on what, where and how the underbody can and will be reinforced to prevent such problems....

If they cannot do it, there are 2 other shops that have already stated they do this for a living and are willing to check it out, but at this time one of these shops is backed up until i don't know when so I'll just see what is found.

[shizzzon 461]

Just found out it's not worth it...

The whole underbody would have to be Plated from the firewall back because of the unibody structure...

So basically, an entire new frame is to be welded...

This shop i talked to said they have to do this on Mustangs a lot when drag racing.

So what does this involve on the tC?

He said about 100lbs of steel and 2-3 weeks of labor!

The ENTIRE interior on and near the floor needs to be gutted and i mean everything...

Carpet, seats, sound deadening and the computer inside, any wiring, anything on or near the floor.

Why?

He said when they go to start weldling the underside of the floor, the inside of the car will be covered in smoke from the heat of the floor and do not want to start a fire!

Estimated man hrs and cost-

50hrs

Cost - $3,000

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Just get yourself a couple Bazzoka tubes and call it a day.

[shizzzon 461]

nah, hehe, i know what my limits are now so the build is resuming...

When i get rid of this car in a few yrs... i will get something massive...

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

What Are you planning on doing?

[Bl0ve1991 0]

Reading this thread only makes me think of that poor Punisher Geo lol. I wonder how it even moves sometimes.

[shizzzon 461]

What Are you planning on doing?

4 18s, 4 5500ds, 5 group 34 batts

I got another guy on another forum that has about 200lbs more weight in his tC than i will so if his fails, lol, i'm taken mine out, hehe.

He's had his in there for 3 months now BUT.. he's still on stock suspension...

I'm at least upgrading to air struts, etc...

And i WILL be ordering the struts from you, ok?

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

That's fine just let me know. You doing zcons

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Did you check out the batteries Ant has on ROE. They seem to be pretty good with cheap pricing

[shizzzon 461]

they are DC XLs.. the Zcons are like Lvl5s in terms of weight and do not want to go there....

Mark here on SSA has XS for 15% off..

Unless they are XS batts, it's the only batts that will work in my application.

Limited room, limited weight capacity, powerful output.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

They are selling at 15% off MAP ?

[shizzzon 461]

yes, did you not get the email? lol..

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

most likely went to my spam folder.

[shizzzon 461]

ok man.. i'm gonna need that rear suspension kit ordered asap...

Air Lift

Part #- 75687

Let me know if you can get an entire kit too...

Entire kit is under name Easystreet. It's for Scion tC.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

I'll get a price tomorrow

[Zachsb3 1]

the full struts r really expensive.You can just get bags to go over your stock strut, as long as all your looking for is load capacity and not a lower height

http://www.kmwperformance.com/product/UA-02-ST-SB-14

Edited August 8, 2011 by Zachsb3

[shizzzon 461]

i'm a noob at air anything suspension.

IS that safe or just as reliable as a full air strut?

There has to be some sort of disadvantage of doing this or else we'd all do it for only $150 per wheel, lol.

Is the impact this bag holds put any strain on the stock strut?