Front stage options/Ideas

[Julian 641]

Alight yall, Since my Bravox mid has a slowly growing tear in the surround I decided to get some opinions on what to do.

Overall goals

1. A very well versed front stage that is able to be very loud.

2. Able to sustain good midbass (50/60 hz and up) while not sounding extremely harsh.

3. Able to play everything from rap, to rock, to classical, etc.

4.a passive set that works well off axis, as the bravox sounded the best off axis.

Options

1. A simple passive Midwoofer and tweeter combination, 6.5" mid and tweeter.

2. A midbass in the door and a horn combination under the dash, This would be ran actively through probably something like a Sundown Audio 100.4 (onboard x-over)

3. A passive 3 way in the doors (active is a very far off option as I would prefer to start with a 2 way)

Kickpanels are an option but I would like to retain my foot area.

Current front stage

I would like to keep the current similar setup due to obvious cuts in my doors, but again - everything is an option.

Under dash option

* From when I was making my Kicks

[Randal Johnson 544]

How well is your doors deadened and sealed ??

[edouble101 314]

Do you already have kicks built?

You best option is to run a component set in the kicks. Even if you run them passive they will sound better than in the door for a few reasons.

If you want to door mount them, so be it. IMO the best door mount options are to have the tweeter up high and off axis. Imaging will not be nearly as good as kick mounted drivers but it will sound ok. Your soundstage will be decent for the higher frequencies but you will be able to locate your mid for those frequencies being played.

It really comes down to install. A 3-way door mount install will be just as complicated if not more involved than a 2-way kick install and will probably not image nearly as good as a 2-way kick install.

So my vote: spend the time to get the install right! Kick mount a component set, run them passive if you like for an even simpler install. If you are used to listening to door mounted drivers I think you will be amazed at your first kick install.

[Julian 641]

Do you already have kicks built?

You best option is to run a component set in the kicks. Even if you run them passive they will sound better than in the door for a few reasons.

If you want to door mount them, so be it. IMO the best door mount options are to have the tweeter up high and off axis. Imaging will not be nearly as good as kick mounted drivers but it will sound ok. Your soundstage will be decent for the higher frequencies but you will be able to locate your mid for those frequencies being played.

It really comes down to install. A 3-way door mount install will be just as complicated if not more involved than a 2-way kick install and will probably not image nearly as good as a 2-way kick install.

So my vote: spend the time to get the install right! Kick mount a component set, run them passive if you like for an even simpler install. If you are used to listening to door mounted drivers I think you will be amazed at your first kick install.

Pictures of current set up show that's what I currently have.

Kickpanels are an option, but I would rather not lose the space for my feet, as you can probably assume, there's not a whole lot in the mustang.

[altoncustomtech 773]

Out of idle curiosity, which Bravox set is it?

Just an idea, someone on here was selling an old school JL 3-way set. May not be a bad option.

[Julian 641]

Out of idle curiosity, which Bravox set is it?

Just an idea, someone on here was selling an old school JL 3-way set. May not be a bad option.

Pricing is a little too high for my blood currently.

the Carbon fiber 6.5's

[Randal Johnson 544]

How low was you playing that driver down to ??

If you seal those doors up they may not over excursion like that ??

Was you playing those with or with out sub assistance ??

[ssh 924]

Curious, were the bravox mounted to the sheet metal or the plastic door panel?

If you plan on midbass speakers in your doors, I would build a baffle that mounts to the sheet metal, then make a grill to go over the door panel. Otherwise if it's mounted to the door panel it has almost no rigidity and it could "soak up" the midbass output.

[jcarter1885 995]

9 times out of 10 if you mount another 6.5" driver to your door panel like that and play it under the same conditions you will repeat this process again a few months down the road.

[ssh 924]

9 times out of 10 if you mount another 6.5" driver to your door panel like that and play it under the same conditions you will repeat this process again a few months down the road.

If the installation / system setting is the problem, but not if Bravox had a bad production run of surrounds or of the sort.

Not saying that is the case, but it may.

[Julian 641]

How low was you playing that driver down to ??

If you seal those doors up they may not over excursion like that ??

Was you playing those with or with out sub assistance ??

Curious, were the bravox mounted to the sheet metal or the plastic door panel?

If you plan on midbass speakers in your doors, I would build a baffle that mounts to the sheet metal, then make a grill to go over the door panel. Otherwise if it's mounted to the door panel it has almost no rigidity and it could "soak up" the midbass output.

Plastic with MDF backer, there is no option of attaching it to the sheet metal as the mustang came stock with a non standard mounting method for the stock 6x8's

9 times out of 10 if you mount another 6.5" driver to your door panel like that and play it under the same conditions you will repeat this process again a few months down the road.

It is a known problem, Bassahaullic knows a few people that it happened to in the same situation.

9 times out of 10 if you mount another 6.5" driver to your door panel like that and play it under the same conditions you will repeat this process again a few months down the road.

If the installation / system setting is the problem, but not if Bravox had a bad production run of surrounds or of the sort.

Not saying that is the case, but it may.

^-------

It was crossed over at 65^ with a sub stage.

[jcarter1885 995]

I wouldnt be quick to blame it on a bad production run, conisdering i havent seen any recalls or post about it on this site. Im willing to bet even if it was a bad production run the way your running your drivers now, you just helped induced the problem faster.

Seal that door up if your gonna mount them to the door panel but I would be quick to say manufacturing defect as well but what do I know about damaging speakers being mounted just to the door panel.

[Julian 641]

Im not blaming it as a manufacturing error, I was simply stating that this is not an isolated incident. This isn't the first time I've had problems with the build quality, last it was the x-overs were poorly soldered.

[///M5 2,833]

Im not blaming it as a manufacturing error, I was simply stating that this is not an isolated incident. This isn't the first time I've had problems with the build quality, last it was the x-overs were poorly soldered.

How many of those non-isolated incidents were "proper" installs. Not disagreeing that the build quality isn't there, but there is a saying...

As for what to do? 3 way passive systems blow goats IMO, unless you are diligent about mounting all the drivers really closely together. Putting one in the door is just not a good idea.

2 way systems there are a ton of options dependent on budget and processing and what you'd like. Keeping up is so subjective its hard to tell, it shouldn't be but most people don't care if their midbass rolls off. When I read keeping up its rather simple. If your sub/s are crossed at 50Hz (3dB down) then your midbass from your fronts should be able to output in such a way that at 50Hz they sum to 0dB like the rest of the system. Another way of saying this is that you'd have the same output at 40Hz as you do at 80Hz. Of course, with the amount of sub/s you are running that is pretty much impossible in particular if you are limited to a single driver.

Since you have 8 subs you get to compromise. Your compromise will be in midbass. Considering such perhaps a horn and a near pro audio mid is your best choice.

[Julian 641]

Im not blaming it as a manufacturing error, I was simply stating that this is not an isolated incident. This isn't the first time I've had problems with the build quality, last it was the x-overs were poorly soldered.

How many of those non-isolated incidents were "proper" installs. Not disagreeing that the build quality isn't there, but there is a saying...

As for what to do? 3 way passive systems blow goats IMO, unless you are diligent about mounting all the drivers really closely together. Putting one in the door is just not a good idea.

2 way systems there are a ton of options dependent on budget and processing and what you'd like. Keeping up is so subjective its hard to tell, it shouldn't be but most people don't care if their midbass rolls off. When I read keeping up its rather simple. If your sub/s are crossed at 50Hz (3dB down) then your midbass from your fronts should be able to output in such a way that at 50Hz they sum to 0dB like the rest of the system. Another way of saying this is that you'd have the same output at 40Hz as you do at 80Hz. Of course, with the amount of sub/s you are running that is pretty much impossible in particular if you are limited to a single driver.

Since you have 8 subs you get to compromise. Your compromise will be in midbass. Considering such perhaps a horn and a near pro audio mid is your best choice.

Interesting, I woudln't mind compromising.

I know aboslutly nothing about horns, I know of Imaige Dynamics and that's about it. Could you perhaps suggest something, or a combo? I don't mind researching but I'd like a good starting point. Processing would be handled via a Sundown Audio 100.4's onboard x-overs.

I like the idea of a horn and pa setup, that was my first thought.

[///M5 2,833]

Then you need more processing first. An amp isn't going to cut it, NOT even close.

[Julian 641]

Then you need more processing first. An amp isn't going to cut it, NOT even close.

That's what I was thinking, to start off plunging into an active setup with a simple 2 way setup.

As you had previously mentioned about an active 2 way using a pro audio style midbass, are there any that you would suggest as a starting point?

I would like to keep to the off axis that I currently have due to the fact that I have yet to find anyone that would sell me some stock OEM doors.

As for a budget i would say $200 total for just the midbass/tweeter, the 100.4 would come at a later point.

Would the 100.4 render a good enough x-over to start? I would like to keep my present headunit, which is soon to be an AVH-P4300DVD.

As a starting point I was looking into the Selenium 6W4P. It meets my budget requirements and is a 6" mid.

As this is a first for me, I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for in terms of specifications.

as far as I know looking into the frequency response is a key detail.

As far as specs for the Selenium 6W4P 80-9,000 Hz, but the vas is very low at 0.28 ft^3 which would indicate it would perform well in an IB setup?

<-- clueless as what to look for while understanding T/S parameters.

[///M5 2,833]

Still going to need processing.

[edouble101 314]

A HLCD setup with a pro audio midbass would be great. But that is way over your budget.

Since you do not want to build kicks and want to keep things simple consider this option. Use your existing mounting locations with different drivers.

The Aura NS6-255-8A 6" Paper Cone Neodymium Magnet Woofer is $11.50 each. You can build a simple sealed enclosure with fiberglass for them using a cut up plastic coffee container. You use the coffee container as the mold. Then 'glass a mounting ring to the fiberglass enclosure to mount the driver to your door.

For the tweeter Vifa BC25SC55-04 1" Square Frame Tweeter is $10.00 each.

For the amp a Aura RPM4200 RPM Stage 2 Mobile Amplifier 4x50W is $99.98.

A processor with TA would be your biggest expense if you choose to go that route.

[ssh 924]

Tweaking your crossover points at the amp is going to suck. I'd much rather buy a cheaper amp with not all the crossover abilities as the 100.4 and use the extra cash towards an "on the fly" processing unit. Perhaps you can find a similar headunit with all the crossover functions.

Or the RF 3sixty.2

[Julian 641]

Tweaking your crossover points at the amp is going to suck. I'd much rather buy a cheaper amp with not all the crossover abilities as the 100.4 and use the extra cash towards an "on the fly" processing unit. Perhaps you can find a similar headunit with all the crossover functions.

Or the RF 3sixty.2

I get the Sundown for a goood price,

However, I'm trying to pick up a used MS8

[///M5 2,833]

For a first shot at active I'd recommend something you can dink with at the headunit.

Also realize that it will sound significantly WORSE than a passive set for a while until you start to comprehend what the changes do. If you add pro audio mayhem to that mix expect that learning curve to be even longer.

[ssh 924]

There's a used bitone for sale on diyma or c ac o, like $550 or so.

[Julian 641]

Yeah I'm looking at a used MS8, trying to get him down to somewhere around 400

[Impious 1,476]

Just my opinion, but I think an MS8 for a first time active user would actually be counterproductive. It helps a lot to know what's happening and why, and you don't get that with an MS8. Knowing what's changing electronically in the DSP, what affect that has on the sound, and why it the sound changed the way it did IMO goes a long way towards helping someone setup and understand an active setup. With most things the MS8 does happening behind a curtain, you have to do a lot if guesstimation as to why something is happening and what needs to be done to fix it when you don't get the results you expected out of the MS8. If you don't have the experience behind you to be able to make those guesstimations, it might actually be harder to get a good sounding system out of an MS8 on your first go-round than it would be with a manual DSP where you can see and hear things change simultaneously.